MkII Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 This problem is irking me way more than it should. I need to sound it out with informed people to work out what I think. We have a very successful teacher, amazing results, who has in the past had the luxury of issuing laptops to pupils to take home to do homework. Since upgrading to Windows 10 we no longer have a stock of junk for this purpose. Now we only just have what we need with many teachers wanting more which we can't afford. Unfortunately the software won't run on anything older that Windows 10, and pupils can't afford the licence themselves. So this teacher is giving laptops to pupils to keep at home. I make that work, and kill networking in the BIOS. No agreement is drawn up, as he feels he can trust the pupils. Just a letter asking the parents if they mind. If the pupils can't do the homework, grades will suffer. It's unfair to penalise pupils because of their financial situation, but if there's no money that's a tough fact of life. Opinions please.
FN-GM Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 We issue laptops to certain pupil premium children. They are standalone without any restrictions but they don't belong to us so don't get any support. The money comes from the PP money as thats the kind of thing it is for. 2
DrBeaker Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 This problem is irking me way more than it should. I need to sound it out with informed people to work out what I think. We have a very successful teacher, amazing results, who has in the past had the luxury of issuing laptops to pupils to take home to do homework. Since upgrading to Windows 10 we no longer have a stock of junk for this purpose. Now we only just have what we need with many teachers wanting more which we can't afford. Unfortunately the software won't run on anything older that Windows 10, and pupils can't afford the licence themselves. So this teacher is giving laptops to pupils to keep at home. I make that work, and kill networking in the BIOS. No agreement is drawn up, as he feels he can trust the pupils. Just a letter asking the parents if they mind. If the pupils can't do the homework, grades will suffer. It's unfair to penalise pupils because of their financial situation, but if there's no money that's a tough fact of life. Opinions please. How much IT support time is being spent on this one "very successful teacher". If they're that good, IMHO they won't stick around one school for very long and you'll be the one ending up supporting his scheme. Other staff's requests and issues aren't being dealt with as a result, or is this one staff member expecting the "white glove" treatment? What about safeguarding - how do you know that staff member isn't putting anything "questionable" on the laptops? Can the software be put into an RDS system? What happens if a laptop gets stolen, lost, damaged etc? Who's going to pay? The financial situation IT support can't do anything about I'm afraid, if we could maybe things would be different but that's another debate. 1
DrBeaker Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 We issue laptops to certain pupil premium children. They are standalone without any restrictions but they don't belong to us so don't get any support. The money comes from the PP money as thats the kind of thing it is for. We did that. The agreement put in place and signed by the pastoral, guardian and student specifically stated there was NO support from the school for this after handover. Guess what happened? The virus/malware-ridden devices (as the guardian had given the student the admin password we'd set on the machine) and damaged devices came back to us to look at as it "Was affecting teaching and learning". The only use that agreement was for - was in the loo.
mikeprice Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 I am amazed that you are giving pupils laptops to keep at home even if the BIOS is set to have no networking many teenagers could work out how to override this then if they access inappropriate things it will still be your fault and if there was no network access - how did any malware get on there?? as a ex-teacher I am extremely dubious of any teacher that 'needs' a standalone computer in order to get results The good teachers that I have seen (and no - that does not include me ) could teach in the middle of a ploughed field - tech could help but was never a major factor so the ones that insist that they NEED tech in order to teach leave me skeptical This sounds like someone who gets good results felling that they are entitled to EVERYTHING NOW- when the results may be due to other factors (I worked with a very good teacher once who had wonderful results - but then she insisted on small classes for GCSE and she made sure all the good kids liked her lessons but the 'others' hated her) 2
DrBeaker Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 I am amazed that you are giving pupils laptops to keep at home even if the BIOS is set to have no networking many teenagers could work out how to override this then if they access inappropriate things it will still be your fault and if there was no network access - how did any malware get on there?? as a ex-teacher I am extremely dubious of any teacher that 'needs' a standalone computer in order to get results The good teachers that I have seen (and no - that does not include me ) could teach in the middle of a ploughed field - tech could help but was never a major factor so the ones that insist that they NEED tech in order to teach leave me skeptical This sounds like someone who gets good results felling that they are entitled to EVERYTHING NOW- when the results may be due to other factors (I worked with a very good teacher once who had wonderful results - but then she insisted on small classes for GCSE and she made sure all the good kids liked her lessons but the 'others' hated her) Is it true that teachers as part of their training should be prepared to teach without tech or computers e.g. power failure etc? I've always been told this is "true". Some have said to me in the past "I can't teach without my computer" and my response has always been "OK, so if I come to your class you're telling me you'll be sitting at the desk doing nothing and so will the students?" Unlike IT support whose job requires the utmost use of computers on a constant daily basis - surely a good teacher should be able to teach in the middle of a grass field with a whiteboard and a whiteboard pen?
hardtailstar Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 Is it true that teachers as part of their training should be prepared to teach without tech or computers e.g. power failure etc? I've always been told this is "true". Some have said to me in the past "I can't teach without my computer" and my response has always been "OK, so if I come to your class you're telling me you'll be sitting at the desk doing nothing and so will the students?" Unlike IT support whose job requires the utmost use of computers on a constant daily basis - surely a good teacher should be able to teach in the middle of a grass field with a whiteboard and a whiteboard pen?Not sure if it's true about training but in the last schools I worked in, all teachers had to have a back up plan that didn't need IT. But I think all teachers should do that anyway.
Ditto Posted February 20, 2019 Posted February 20, 2019 Unfortunately the software won't run on anything older that Windows 10, and pupils can't afford the licence themselves.Opinions please. Can I ask what this software is - is it really only able on Windows 10?
MkII Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 We issue laptops to certain pupil premium children. They are standalone without any restrictions but they don't belong to us so don't get any support. The money comes from the PP money as thats the kind of thing it is for.The teacher asked pupils if they wanted them. He only had a handful to hand out. AFAIK this isn't the poorest pupils.
MkII Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 How much IT support time is being spent on this one "very successful teacher". If they're that good, IMHO they won't stick around one school for very long and you'll be the one ending up supporting his scheme. Other staff's requests and issues aren't being dealt with as a result, or is this one staff member expecting the "white glove" treatment? What about safeguarding - how do you know that staff member isn't putting anything "questionable" on the laptops? Can the software be put into an RDS system? What happens if a laptop gets stolen, lost, damaged etc? Who's going to pay? The financial situation IT support can't do anything about I'm afraid, if we could maybe things would be different but that's another debate. They're getting a lot of support at the moment. The laptops are locked down/ only I can install software. RDS? Who pays: the school of the parents don't want to.
MkII Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 Can I ask what this software is - is it really only able on Windows 10?It's the specific version of the software that doesn't open old/free version files [emoji6] It's pretty integral to the GCSE course. You could use alternate open source programs that use the same file format with a little effort from the pupils. He has suggested it but had no takers. Initially only a couple of kids went for it but when the rest saw that it was a good thing they all wanted one. Unfortunately he only had a handful to give out. Management ok'd a couple of spares for the cause that I need for exams, teacher spares.
Ditto Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 I think in this case then, putting aside any security concern's, for fairness I can only suggest the laptops are cycled around the pupils, maybe 1 week each and then moved on. The alternative is someone, be it parent or school, stumps up some cash to provide the ressources - or maybe your PTA/Friends of School would like to chip in. I wonder how the school would react if a parent of a child without a laptop made an official complaint of unfair practice. I know what the school where I am a governor would do. Firstly, they'd not allow them to be loaned out, but they'd also offer the pupils the chance to attend a lunch time or after school homework club. 2
MkII Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 I think in this case then, putting aside any security concern's, for fairness I can only suggest the laptops are cycled around the pupils, maybe 1 week each and then moved on. The alternative is someone, be it parent or school, stumps up some cash to provide the ressources - or maybe your PTA/Friends of School would like to chip in. I wonder how the school would react if a parent of a child without a laptop made an official complaint of unfair practice. I know what the school where I am a governor would do. Firstly, they'd not allow them to be loaned out, but they'd also offer the pupils the chance to attend a lunch time or after school homework club. The intention is to loan them for the rest of the academic year at least. Yes fundraising would be good. We're already stretched but you never know. The governors don't know yet. I'm going to push this through the Head of IT to manage the policies and permissions, that will then go to governors for approval. Lunchtime clubs are already a thing, and pupils can borrow laptops in school. Some pupils have their own laptops, the 6th formers use those in school but we can't install the s/w onto them without taking them over and joining them to the domain. Teacher doesn't want that. Next year we could emphasise that to pupils taking the subject - to buy a laptop through the school that we'll set up for them. Licences permitting (we have 25. 16 used on desktop PCs).
LTurner3692 Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 we use to have 5 spare laptops that came with a contractual agreement, only PP students could have them! (this was all agreed well before i started). The laptops were brought from the PP fund so it didnt cost the IT department a penny, we just made sure they were as safe as we could make them. However they are free to do what they like with the laptop during the time they have it.
synaesthesia Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 We do something similar every now and then; it always comes from pupil premium budget. We rarely get anything back with issues, but generally speaking they all go out with a limited account. I would strongly suggest limiting them as much as is necessary, maybe even setting them up on OpenDNS or something to block out the worst nasties, ensuring it has reasonable AV protection etc, with the understanding that full control will be given when they finish school.
LTurner3692 Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 thats the difference, we would be lucky to even get one back! let alone undamaged!, when they started it there was 20 laptops, when i left that school it was 5! we tried to add things in to protect the students but the person in charge wanted it open! so we made sure that it was noted that we had nothing to do with it the second it left are office!
MkII Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 These are paid for by the school for use in school. The teacher has decided, because it's what they did in the past, to hand them out freely again. Like I said... it was ok when it was old laptops that were surplus. Now the bursar is tightening the purse strings and at the same time donating laptops to pupils.
LTurner3692 Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 I would simply say that as it stands its not an option, as giving a student a laptop to take home for any period leaves you short on laptops for staff! if said teacher would like to do this it needs to go through the head etc!
bald_pig Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 Have you thought of refurbished laptops? - Usually they cost a fraction of the price of new... Also, with company's like X, that lease rather than sell, then you can also get maintenance support for these products in the case of anything going wrong. Just a thought, but it could possibly assist in your predicament, especially if your struggling with your budgets!! Sure it's been resolved in the month since the last post...
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