Softxpand Miniframe

[vSpace]

(sharp in take of breath ) sounds very very expensive to me...and I would suspect the cost would out weight the gains

[MultiseatGuru]

Hello, long time lurker, first time poster!

 

To clear up the licensing issue r.e. NComputing and MS. NComputing had to dance to MS's tune but they would have been foolish not to. Remember that NComputing effectively hacks the MS OS to allow it to work, so MS really should have had more beef with NC, rather than the smaller players in the market Softxpand, Fiddlehead etc etc.. However that was the saving grace, NComputing through clever marketing and some of the best VC funding in Silly Valley, CA. Managed to get very big very quickly, so MS had two options 1) Take NC to task and shut them down (Not good PR for either company) 2) Get NC to be MS's (I am looking for a better expression, but cannot find one).. .. and then have two companies, one of them already established in Multiseat and the other just bringing a software to market needing quick and direct hits. It actually is a match made in Heaven and for us takes away the ambiguity r.e. licensing.

[MultiseatGuru]

Oh and here's a link... NComputing News

[multipoint]

SoftXpand licensing:

 

Miniframe recently announced that they have appointed Londonweb as their exclusive UK distributor meaning Miniframe UK / Kira Supplies / Roger is now a VAR. Londonweb suggest that SoftXpand now follows the typical MS license path as per NComputing. Therefore: If you have an XP PC, you need to acquire an MPS 2010 OS license, and an MPS 2010 CAL per user. If joining the PC to the domain you need a TS CAL per user too. These licenses then go straight into the filing cabinet. Weirdly the EULA states that using a desktop O/S is against their PUR. Under the agreement with MS NComputing / Miniframe / FiddleHead / LG can’t “promote” the use of XP as the host OS.

 

If you run SoftXpand on the 32 bit Server 2003/8 then multiple users can access a licensed instance of Windows Server if every accessing user or device has a Windows Server CAL and Remote Desktop Services CAL. XP is not needed but you'll sacrifice some desktop applications that won't run on the server O/S.

 

Using MPS 2010:

 

MPS 2010 is MSs dedicated multiseat computing O/S. NComputing vSpace brings nothing to the party if using MPS 2010 as the O/S. MPS 2010 is limited to 10 users, and SoftXpand is 8. Despite NComputing marketing material, I wouldn't go over a 10:1 ratio on the PC, and if you use the L series stick with a 15:1 ratio unless you're building a hybrid VDi.

 

With regards using MPS 2010 at the moment there are 2 routes we've found work, and about 350 routes that don't. Clearly the HP multiseat computer with the old thin clients work as TMCD has proven. NComputing U170 / X550 still do not. The U170 is a VGA over USB hub, and the X550 is a KVM converter and neither support 64 bit so the O/S doesn't see them still. We've found a device from Tritton and MCS that are superb and work - You MUST check that the DisplayLink device you're buying works in 64 bit or else you'll be sending them back or switching to another O/S and then having to invest in SoftXpand or NComputing vSpace. The U170 doesn't have enough USB ports and feels like a rushed product. End users suggest that given the choice they'd go with the X550 over the U170 although the U170 is great to keep in the cupboard in case a PC goes down. That's a great idea and at £100 RRP seems like a bargain.

 

The best results we've had is the VeryPC GreenHive appliance for MPS2010 which uses multiple graphics cards and 4 port USB hubs a la SoftXpand - Microsoft will be releasing a global case study showcasing this install. VeryPC have found a way to improve performance with some graphics processing, cpu balancing, however SoftXpand is still the only one to truly deliver a true PC performance for up to 6 users - I have heard there will be a launch of 3 brand new PCs, a 2, a 4 and a 6 user PC from VeryPC for SoftXpand, so now we can buy branded hardware with a warranty! The MPS 2010 on VeryPC is best for 4 users if video editing or graphics applications are being used, the other 2 users will only be able to do basic office application stuff.

 

SoftXpand and DisplayLink:

 

We've trialled numerous devices and got some working. On a mid spec PC SoftXpand allows 4 users to connect using DisplayLink devices. They must be DisplayLink. What we found was that if your PC has a dual graphics card or even 2 graphics cards then SoftXpand will allow 2 users a true PC performance using stuff like autocad, and the other 4 users can do file, print, movies, internet etc. Actually rather nifty as it lets you mix and match. We haven't got this working with MPS 2010. SoftXpand on DisplayLink gives the same performance as MPS 2010 on HPs Multiseat Computer, and the same as NComputing / LG. Samsung, LG and Kensington are all involved with SoftXpand and are working to release devices.

 

Additionally we've found that SoftXpand now logs USB ports to the users so noone else can see your students work when they stick a USB memory stick in, and IP addresses are native. That is a pretty big deal. We cannot map USB ports with MPS 2010 although I'm sure it won't be long until this is solved.

 

NComputing and the Hybrid VDi:

 

This is so cool. Their vSpace will allow 200 users on the server. Connect the users using the LG N+ or NComputing L series via ethernet. Bosh. Cheapest high user volume solution. We saw the VeryPC (they're everywhere in Multiseating) GreenHive hosts being used as a router that delivered processing power in the ICT suites to the NComputing access devices, and the server was pretty neat too.

 

In conclusion:

 

No mater what you buy you will need MPS2010 and I thoroughly believe it will improve with every update. I love these solutions but they're really like saying what do you prefer blondes or brunettes. I think each one has its place. SoftXpand has the biggest install in the UK still, NComputing has the most seats, but rest assured MPS 2010 is going to be the biggest. It could even lead to a drop in market share of NComputings thin client devices.

 

So for true PC performance and a decent price trade off choose SoftXpand; however when will they release a Win 7 / 64 BIT version?

For an easy life and an acceptable performance use MPS2010 with a multigraphics card PC. The solution can only get better and works out of the box.

For acceptable performance and low cost use NComputing and ask NComputing to recommend a host PC appliance to you.

For a full branded solution choose MPS2010 with HP multiseat computer.

For an all in one solution use LG and ask LG to recommend a host PC appliance to you.

[DMcCoy]

Not that the machines will necessarily cope but most of us won't be bound to the 10 user limit of MPS as academic users have no limit (assuming you have the CALs).

[MultiseatGuru]

SoftXpand licensing:

 

Miniframe recently announced that they have appointed Londonweb as their exclusive UK distributor meaning Miniframe UK / Kira Supplies / Roger is now a VAR. Londonweb suggest that SoftXpand now follows the typical MS license path as per NComputing. Therefore: If you have an XP PC, you need to acquire an MPS 2010 OS license, and an MPS 2010 CAL per user. If joining the PC to the domain you need a TS CAL per user too. These licenses then go straight into the filing cabinet. Weirdly the EULA states that using a desktop O/S is against their PUR. Under the agreement with MS NComputing / Miniframe / FiddleHead / LG can’t “promote” the use of XP as the host OS.

 

If you run SoftXpand on the 32 bit Server 2003/8 then multiple users can access a licensed instance of Windows Server if every accessing user or device has a Windows Server CAL and Remote Desktop Services CAL. XP is not needed but you'll sacrifice some desktop applications that won't run on the server O/S.

.

 

But soft x pand does not use a server OS, it uses a desktop OS.. Windows XP. I think that just having the licenses in the cupboard is not really a suitable route forward as you are still bending/breaking/exposing a loophole whatever you want to call it on the desk top OS. This problem is exacerbated when you start to look forward to future proofing your network as much as you can. It's a bit like trying to say you own an electric car because your car has a battery under the hood!

 

As for a Win7 version of soft x pand, i would take it with a pinch of sodium if anyone has been promised a date. I heard that it was meant to be out in Jan/Feb/Mar and then who knows! Even if it is ever released, it is exposed by the fact that it uses a desktop OS and who out there in the public sector is going to put their chopper on the block and take a risk when there is LEGAL technology out there from NC and MS, when the ultimate penalty could be their job and reputation and a disgraced School / LEA... The press loves jumping all over the public sector when they screw up using our hard earned tax dollars ;-)

 

I do agree that MS have got a good system there, a few tweeks are needed but they have got their heads screwed on and the ability to make it very big very quick.

[MultiseatGuru]

Even better - a link from that Slashdot article seems to reckon this motherboard could handle three of those cards:

 

Image Gallery - The Tech Report

 

That would let you run 36 terminals from one machine - easily enough to do a classroom and front-of-class display for the teacher. You can get 30-odd thin clients on a single machine, so there's no reason why you couldn't get 30-odd Multiseat users. I'm guessing you're right about the cooling, though - a decent-sized server with 3 of those cards in would need to be in an air-conditioned space of some sort. Just how feasible is running stacks of KVM connections around a building? Could you use basic cat5 for a reasonable-cost solution?

 

--

David Hicks

 

That thing is going to sound like a plane taking off!

[multipoint]

Microsoft offers different combination's of solutions through different partner channels. For customers that would like to be able to add more than 10 users, they may purchase the Windows MultiPoint Server 2010 Academic solution, since it doesn’t have this restriction. However in the real world, a 10:1 ratio is what I'd recommend after testing.

[MultiseatGuru]

Microsoft offers different combination's of solutions through different partner channels. For customers that would like to be able to add more than 10 users, they may purchase the Windows MultiPoint Server 2010 Academic solution, since it doesn’t have this restriction. However in the real world, a 10:1 ratio is what I'd recommend after testing.

 

Agreed!

 

I have ran solutions with SoftXpand, MS MP and NComputing and the 30 odd clients connected to one device whilst I have never used it you start to get into VMWare territory and I would be asking questions of the performance over and above the normal office task's.

[multipoint]

NComputing vSpace can be used very effectively to build a Hybrid VDi for far less than the rate of VMWare. We've got experience of a 200 seat build, but as you say SX, MPS 2010, LG and NC are all Multiseat solutions rather than desktop virtualisation, so they're meant for the PC rather than the server. Although I know I will be corrected on this!

[RogerAnscombe]

Hi All,

 

It has been a long time since I have looked at this thread as I have been too busy selling Multiseat computing all over the country. I do need to correct an error I have just noticed.

 

Kira Supplies has always been a VAR selling SoftXpand and other IT products.

MiniFrameUK is the UK distributor of SoftXpand software and works through VARs from Scotland down to Kent and Cornwall. MiniFrameUK only supplies the products developed by MiniFrame in Israel.

Some confusion is caused because Kira Supplies has put together a hardware package that works particularly well with SoftXpand and this is called Ecoware. Ecoware is also available nationwide through the same VARs that have signed up with MiniFrameUK.

 

Following a number of pilot installs, SoftXpand has now been included as an approved technology for some of the BSF projects that have not been cancelled.

 

If anyone wants up to date information on MiniFrameUK or Kira Supplies please talk to us rather than listen to false rumours.

[PeteHopton]

Rumors? Hmmm. Well as you know I'm always happy to debunk the copius ammounts of cr*p that appears in this thread.

 

Now I thought the following was true:

 

SoftXpand in the UK has a bad reputation in some areas for poor support and cowboyish actvity (Ref: Manchester LEA), mostly because of it's UK distribution and support arm that was based in the 'Derbyshire' very,very,very close to 'Kira Supplies' (Ref: Companies House)

 

The Isreali's pulled the UK distribution rights from this 'Derbyshire based entity' likely due to issues arrising and the aformentioned bad reputlation and now LondonWeb are the exclusive UK Distributor of the software. (REF: press release Technology News Today | London Web Expands Green IT with SoftXpand Desktop Virtualisation Solution)

 

Interestingly LondonWeb have contracted VeryPC to supply the SoftXpand host units, citing 'build quality' and 'inconsistant configurations' as big problems in SoftXpand's UK history. (Ref: Press Release MiniFrame and VeryPC Join Forces to Offer the Greenest IT Solution - desktop virtualization, green it, multi-user software)

VeryPC have also been appointed to produce host units for Ncomputing, LG Network monitor and have the largest Microsoft Multipoint Server host unit deployments in the UK.

 

It is my hope that this new, stronger and more reputable distributor, combined with the technical host unit nounce of my team at VeryPC will overcome the bad reputation caused by the previous 'Derbyshire based Entity'

Edited December 2, 2010 by PeteHopton

[RogerAnscombe]

It is true that reputations are developed by a trust in individuals. We used to have an employee who would happily tell customers what he thought they wanted to hear instead of the truth. The result was sometimes a disappointment with the goods received. Happily he is no longer with us and now works for you Peter and I notice from various blogs that he has not changed. A recent press release from VeryPC listed a number of customers that had supposedly bought from Very. As these are customers of Kira Supplies, I called them to find out and was told they have never heard of VeryPC and certainly not bought from them. It is not my policy to criticise the opposition and I am very sorry that you Peter have decided to use this forum to spread accusations when you are not aware of the facts.

 

SoftXpand Ecoware has been used in a number of schools for over 3 years and I have happily extended the warranty from the original 3 years to 5 years as the failure rate is around 1%. One school that had nearly 400 seats of SoftXpand kept 3 spare systems in a cupboard for emergency replacement. When they were still there 12 months later, they decided instead to roll out an additional 18 seats for students.

 

I can only repeat that MiniFrameUK is very much alive and has resellers who now cover the whole of the UK. MiniFrameUK only sells the products developed by MiniFrame in Israel, unlike LondonWeb who has also been appointed as a distributor for SoftXpand. We continue to do well because of our expertise and total honesty (with our current staff). I would much prefer to continue to sell excellent products and services due to the excellent reputation we have built up over the years (Including with Manchester LEA) rather than attacking the competition. I trust that those who read this forum will listen to our customers rather than competitors and ex employees.

 

As the one company within UK that has the most experience with SoftXpand I will be happy to respond to any questions from schools which I believe is what this forum should be about.

[PeteHopton]

Roger,

 

I don't apply blame for sustained activity to any employee of mine, as I would be the person responsible ultimately for managing their behaviour. This is truely bad form.

"it's not my organisation's fault for not delivering service, it's my sales guy for overpromising" Please!

 

I don't rumor, but prefer fact and reference in my communications (as I always have on this forum), which is one of the reasons I'm a respected member of the industry who regularly represents the BCS (the chartered institute for IT) in presenting around Green IT and DataCenter Efficiency at various events (I've presented at NAACE, BETT, ICT for Education, Green IT Expo, HEEPI, JISC, SUSTAIN IT, FCO mission to Tokyo, MAS, Salix Fund Events, etc.)

 

I would suggest at this point the only way you can redeem yourself is to make the last comment you make on this forum to offer a full onsite service and support amnesty for all people who have purchased SoftXpand through your channel. A good place to start is in the Manchester LEA area who appear perticularly badly hit.

 

Said unreferenced press release (VeryPC and SoftXpand green IT solution delivers strong sales / green IT news) did include customers who had purchased a GreenHive solution (LG, Ncomputing, SoftXpand or MS) with a VeryPC host unit, you are partly correct in that the article misquoted Colin as these all being SoftXpand solutions.

 

Confusing people by passing your 'other company' off as a subsiduary of a company you no longer have the rights to buy from is not also just bad form, but will likely land yourself at the wrong end of a lawsuit before long, and your customer's warranty worthless as it's underwritten by a bankrupt firm.

 

Actions speak much louder than hearsay, so I would encourage anyone still in doubt to come and see VeryPC, Our Friends from Musu, LondonWeb and the guys from Miniframe Isreal, who write SoftXpand at the BETT show stand C90, which is split in 3. LondonWeb & Miniframe will be demonstrating various SoftXpand solutions correctly licensed running Windows Server 2003/2008, Multipoint Server 2010 (with Windows 7 Look and Feel), etc. - which is a good start for a new leaf for SoftXpand in the UK I think!

 

VeryPC's bit will be demonstrating its latest desktops, Servers, Storage and Virtualisation products. The Storage and Virualisation is perticularly interesting and was Launched with Microsoft on their Stand at the 'Green IT Expo 2010', some of the members of the forum might have even met us all at the MS/VPC afterparty.

[RogerAnscombe]

Hi Peter,

 

Your comments remind me of a certain Dragons' Den performance when you also tried to persuade us that wrong was right.

 

You state that "I don't rumor, but prefer fact and reference in my communications" so let's have some facts.

 

MiniFrameUK Ltd is not, and has never been, a subsidiary of any other company. It is a UK registered company, totally owned by UK shareholders and run entirely by UK Directors. It was established at the request of MiniFrame in Israel to distribute their products in UK and to reduce confusion with activities of Kira Supplies Ltd who sell products from a variety of Manufacturers. The name MiniFrameUK was chosen by the Israeli company, not us.

 

Rumours are very easy to sow and you state you do not rumour so let's have some facts from you. If you know of any customer in Manchester, school or business, that has bought or borrowed a SoftXpand Ecoware system is is unhappy with it, please let me know because I am unaware of any.

 

Your story about customers who have bought Greenhive does not agree with the story I was given by Colin, nor does it agree with the information I was given by the IT Managers at the organisations who told me they have never heard of VeryPC. Colin told me that he had merely given a list of customers who he knew had purchased SoftXpand even though he knew it was while he worked for Kira Supplies. If you wish to remain a "respected member of the industry" then you need to start to be more honest.

[MiniFrame]

I am Emmanuel Boutboul, MiniFrame VP Marketing and Sales.

I don't want to comment on the various allegations in this thread...

 

However, I want to clarify that LondonWeb is currently MiniFrame exclusive distributor in the UK.

 

We look forward to demonstrate SoftXpand for Windows 7/2008 R2 at the BETT 2011.

[JamieEasterman]

Hi All,

 

This is my first post but I just wanted to say that as Miniframe's current exclusive UK Distributor, London Web are happy to answer any and all questions about Miniframe and SoftXpand in the UK. I am not sure this forum is the best place for discussions I have seen recently. However if anyone would like to get in contact with us you can find us at "LondonWeb.net". Of course a quick google for recent SoftXpand Press Releases will verify everything Peter Hopton at VeryPC and Emmanuel Boutboul at MiniFrame (Israel) have recently mentioned.

 

I would like to point out that the reasons that London Web partnered with VeryPC to supply the hardware behind the current SoftXpand Appliances was due to excellent build quality, support, True ECO and low power credentials as approved by the Carbon Trust. Last but not least there are approved channels to supply these units through Public Sector Framework agreements.

 

Lastly we believe of all the multi-seat solutions on the market at the moment. SoftXPand simply provides the best experience for high end graphics and video support to meet the current National Curriculum requirements. A fully working demo of the solution can be downloaded for you to try and see for yourself from our SoftXpand portal at SoftXpand.co.uk

 

Best Wishes

 

Jamie Easterman

Edited December 3, 2010 by JamieEasterman

[PeteHopton]

Jamie, Emmanuel, thanks for your comments, which were not requested but are appreciated, I feel vindicated from the lies of this bitter old soul. As we say in Yorkshire. Nuff Said......

 

(Jamie, you mean endorsed by the Energy Saving Trust as in "Energy Saving Recommended", the Carbon Trust and Salix Merely issue funding, they don't like being quoted as endorsing things!)

[JamieEasterman]

Hi Peter,

 

When I said approved by the Carbon Trust...Of course, I meant as in they have hsitorically approved VeryPc units for funding of their low cost (zero%) loans on the basis that your solutions are proven to provide energy savings compared to standard PC's from other manufacturers. Of course when combined with Multi-Seat solutions such as SoftXpand the further cost and energy savings an organisation can make are huge.

 

Happy Monday ! ;-)

 

Best Wishes

 

Jamie

[JamieEasterman]

I would like to invite you all to visit us at the BETT show on 12-15th January at London Olympia where we will be on stand C90. You will be able to see the new Windows 7/server 2008 R2 64 bit version of SoftXpand demonstrated for the first time.

 

For more information on the award winning Multi-User pc Desktop Virtualisation software "SoftXpand" please visit SoftXpand.co.uk

 

I look forward to seeing you in January.

 

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

Best Wishes

 

Jamie

[LiamH]

Is anyone else currently using softxpand?

 

We tried it in the Library due to space constraints and I can honestly say we have had no end of bother from it. 3/4 calls a day about screens locking up, keyboard and mouse problems and sessions freezing mid logoff. Just wondering if anyone else has it in place and experiences problems?

 

We use mandatory profiles for students along with group policy to manage numinous things within the school, the advice we received from the tech team after replacing motherboards, installing a fresh build of windows without additional software and upgrading to the newest version was to ditch the profiles and group policy which is not an option.

[JamieEasterman]

HI Liam

 

Can you reply to me directly with information about your system and particularily the hardware in the system so I can see what we can do for you?

 

Best Wishes

 

Jamie Easterman

[firefox_2006]

Is anyone else currently using softxpand?

 

We tried it in the Library due to space constraints and I can honestly say we have had no end of bother from it. 3/4 calls a day about screens locking up, keyboard and mouse problems and sessions freezing mid logoff. Just wondering if anyone else has it in place and experiences problems?

 

We use mandatory profiles for students along with group policy to manage numinous things within the school, the advice we received from the tech team after replacing motherboards, installing a fresh build of windows without additional software and upgrading to the newest version was to ditch the profiles and group policy which is not an option.

 

LiamH

 

I share your pain, Since we had it installed over a year ago it has been a completed headache...no migraine since day one. Cable management is KEY to this system, all the USB hubs need to be locked away and assigned appropriately. Also, can you get MovieMaker or Google Earth to work by anychance? Our reselller had to write a "hack" to get MovieMaker to work (which is now not working). Our stations reboot at random times throughout the day (you don't even need to be logged on, an idle station just restarted as me and the assistant head looked at it!)

 

Poor performance all round (I suspect this is due to the way in which our reseller has configured the main tower stations) means we have YET to get 100% use out of it yet. Oh and to top it all off, our reseller has totally mugged us off, leaving us with a faulty solution that does not work. We our now persuing legal action, its gonna get messi.

[JamieEasterman]

HI Firefix_2006

 

MovieMaker will run if you use the SoftXpand application runner process. Right click on the app you want to run you should see an in context menu option for this.

 

We have also found that using an Application called Sandboxie will allow multiple instances of Google Earth to run without issues. However make sure your Video drivers and workstations are setup with Native Display settings to get the benefit of 3D acceleraation.

 

I suspect your configuration might need a small tweak as the systems we have implemented don't suffer the problems you mention.

 

Please let me know where you purchased from and I will take matters further for you.

 

Best Wishes

 

Jamie

[nathan]

we've had 6 x4 units and 6 x2 units of these installed. The amount of time spent trying to sorting out the keyboard/mouse/audio. Been a nightmare!!!