Softxpand Miniframe

[steve_nfi]

Hi all

Just wanted to know if anyone has had any experience of this product.

I had a short trial of it and it seemed quite good but couldn't really give it a good hammering in the short time we had to test it.

 

Here is a link to the site.

 

MiniFrame Multi-user PC Software- Thin Client - MultiSeat - Multi-user computing - Green IT

 

[dhicks]

Just wanted to know if anyone has had any experience of this product.

 

Excellent idea - there was a Linux version of this around 18 months ago, but I never did get that to work properly. This seems to run on Windows XP... which doesn't /sound/ like it should work, for licensing issues if nothing else...

 

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David Hicks

[steve_nfi]

We are going to buy a 6 screen set up to use in our music department and load it up with some processor heavy programs and see how it performs.

(Sibelius, Cubase etc.).

It has a quad core processor (E6600), 4gb RAM, 6 19" monitors plus all associated hardware (keyboards, USB sound cards, Graphics cards etc.) all for just over £2k inc vat.

 

If this shapes up well we intent to buy some more.

[Igor]

I was testing this software a couple of month ago.

They had a home version of the software.

It seemed to work very well, could run games and multimedia.

They have a rather good knowledge base

MiniFrame knowledgebase

I was also in touch once with their support and got an answer from them about some issue I had.

[dhicks]

We are going to buy a 6 screen set up to use in our music department

 

Where does the sound come out for each workstation? Do you have to get a separate USB sound card for each workstation (not expensive, but good to know)?

 

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David Hicks

[saundersmatt]

I don't understand the saving there.

We've just bought a batch of pc's Core 2 duo @ 2.2, 2 gig ram and 19" monitors at £375 per pc. For 6 that's just over 2k.

 

Matt

[SYNACK]

I don't understand the saving there.

We've just bought a batch of pc's Core 2 duo @ 2.2, 2 gig ram and 19" monitors at £375 per pc. For 6 that's just over 2k.

 

Matt

 

Savings are in power usage and space, possibly also relyability if they have used really good hardware instead of the standard desktop stuff.

[steve_nfi]

Each user has it's own sound card(usb). There is also a 4 way usb hub per user for keyboard, mice, pen drives etc. Another saving appears to be with software. 1 licence.

[steve_nfi]

Forgot to say. The 6 screen setup was just under £1900.

[tmcd35]

Just been over to their website - looks interesting. One thing I couldn't find, is the price?

[Ric_]

The solution does not work. You will be screwed on your licensing since it uses Windwos XP and that is a single user license. If you ignore this fact, you will still need up to 8 (possibly 9 depending on how MS view the host PC) licenses for all the rest of your MS software.

 

I believe a similar solution has been discussed elsewhere on EduGeek and the consensus of opinion was just to use thin clients (which will probably work out at a similar price and be fully legal with the licensing).

[steve_nfi]

Not sure what the legal implications are but it only uses one copy of XP or whatever O/S you use. The rep implied that eas all you needed. I thought CALs were machine based. This is only one machine but with 6 logons running simultaneously. I think this is the rather grey area.

 

The company don't normally put the prices on the site but as I mentioned in an earlier post ours will work out at just under £1900 for the 6 screen setup.

[tmcd35]

I just went on a quick web search to see if the XP EULA is a user license or machine license and came across the following interesting article:

 

XP bandwidth brouhaha

 

Microsoft's XP license agreement says, "Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and Remote Desktop features described below, you may not use the Product to permit any Device to use, access, display, or run other executable software residing on the Workstation Computer, nor may you permit any Device to use, access, display, or run the Product or Product's user interface, unless the Device has a separate license for the Product."

 

So you would need a separate license for each screen.

[dhicks]

So you would need a separate license for each screen.

 

Which, in some cases, would still be a good option. For a 6-machine work area, it would probably cost about the same to buy either thin clients or extra graphics cards, USB sound cards, USB hubs and Windows license for each workstation. I figure crummy Windows-based educational software might just work better on a setup with its own dedicated graphics card.

 

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David Hicks

[TronXP]

I can not help but look at the solution and it screams out single point of failure. You have to expect some issue with hardware at some point, when it happens you lose 6 - 8 "machines" instead of just one. For that reason alone I would be cautious about it

[Igor]

Hi all,

I was using SoftXpand as a 3 workstations solution.

1 OnBoard video card, and an additional dual head PCI-Express video card.

Was using sound with Onboard and two USB sound cards.

Must say I was very impressed with the simplicity and high performance of the software.

It is a highly good solution compared to other terminal solutions or thin client.

[torledo]

Looks like an ugly solution to a problem regular thin clients solve very well at the moment.

[verygreenpc]

Hi Torledo,

 

Thanks for your comments. Also Igor, where did you buy from, which partner of ours?

 

Check out a review of Channel Expo http://www.kpwalker.com/toplinecomms/ChannelEyes3.html and read Heather Bakers review. Her final line was "it looks pretty neat too" The major difference we get on feedback from clients is that thin clients still require 1 hardware device per user and cannot handle the multimedia and heavy graphics intensive applications whereas SoftXpand does. SoftXpand from a climate change perspective is the choice of the eco-generation we're finding as there's less embedded carbon in a SoftXpand deployment than any comparable system. I'd love to hear thoughts back on this as well, as frankly I can count on one hand the number of end clients that have been seduced by the green effects of SoftXpand. The key business driver is always performance and cost, and I'm not aware of anything that can match SoftXpand.

 

We've just got the first 1000+ user where a competetive quote against a full on VDi was costed, tested etc and SoftXpand managed to achieve the users requirement and provide a quicker ROI.

 

Best,

Col

[Bluetooth]

I recently went to an ICT showcase in huddersfield and found a miniframe system being used by 4 kids with digitalbrain primary.

 

I must say i was very impressed with the miniframe stuff and i have already begun following through some quotes for prices and specs etc.

 

Once thing i dont understand is.. well how does it work? you have to have 1 seperate vga card per monitor you use? how do all the mice and keyboards attach etc and sound i dont understand? 1 card for 6 machines? i wish there was a crosseyed emote =-)

 

I plan on contacting microsoft regarding the licensing issue.

 

B

[tmcd35]

Once thing i dont understand is.. well how does it work? you have to have 1 seperate vga card per monitor you use? how do all the mice and keyboards attach etc and sound i dont understand? 1 card for 6 machines? i wish there was a crosseyed emote =-)

It simply extends the standard Windows desktop across n displays and then carves the extended display into screens for each user. Each USB mouse and keyboard are given a unique identifer by the computer anyway, you can attach as many usb keyboard and mice to a computer as you like. SoftXpand maps the keyboards and mice to the carved up extended display.

 

I plan on contacting microsoft regarding the licensing issue.

 

B

 

Please report back what you learn. I for one would be very interested to hear what Microsoft tell you.

[verygreenpc]

Hi Bluetooth,

 

Thanks for your feedback on the system. One of our Gold partners, CCL Online is hosting an exhibition at the National Museum of Photography in Bradford on the 25th June, showcasing various technologies for education including SoftXpand ecoware. I think it's invite only, however I can ask CCL whether he can open it up to the members of EduGeek too? You'll be able to see lots of new technologies, and meet and greet with educational specific vendors including Microsoft. (I'm not sure if this is a contravention of board rules though by inviting or how to let all members know?)

 

Effectively though, for each user you require a USB Hub to connect the Keyboards and mice, and a graphics card to connect the monitors. I've had feedback that customers try and maximise their existing PCs first which can usually be turned into a maximum 4 user, and then switch to prebuilt scalable PCs already populated with up to 4 dual head graphics cards.

 

Interestingly I've just been chatting to a client who has been using KVM over CAT5 as his connection to the PC to build a distributed network, with his PCs being kept in kind of a data centre type environment. He said he'd been working with HP & Citrix directly to build a comparable solution but failed because of the multimedia, so I'm chuffed for him.

 

We're finding more and more that SoftXpand is being built into proper solutions, not just being used as a PC replacement which really gives me hope. The UK is by far the hot bed for IT creativity & innovation and you're all proving it.

 

Kind regards,

Col

[tmcd35]

Hi Bluetooth,

Interestingly I've just been chatting to a client who has been using KVM over CAT5 as his connection to the PC to build a distributed network, with his PCs being kept in kind of a data centre type environment. He said he'd been working with HP & Citrix directly to build a comparable solution but failed because of the multimedia, so I'm chuffed for him.

 

Kind regards,

Col

 

Now that is one of the most interesting ideas I've read in a while. I wonder, can I use that?

[Bluetooth]

Please report back what you learn. I for one would be very interested to hear what Microsoft tell you.

 

Right just got off the phone with MS and spoke to a very nice gent named Alfie in their business licensing department.

 

basically he said that microsoft are aware of softxpand miniframe software and are looking into the licence implications, they have had to pass it up to "the powers that be" and are awaiting a response which should be somepoint middle of next week.

 

I have passed on my contact details to MS and they have said they will be ringing anyone who has done this regarding this licencing issue etc to let them know of the outcome, so right now there is no details from MS regarding softxpand.

 

Regarding the mouse and keyboard usb thing, i take it you use 6x usb hubs (for 6x machines) and have to have 6x usb free on the actual machine etc? Assuming this is true i take it that a high end motherboard would be required to have that kind of expandability or maybe even a server board for the PCI/USB amounts needed.

 

B

[verygreenpc]

Hi B,

 

You're right, we use 6 x USB hubs which require 6 free USB ports.

 

When we're speccing a 6 user, the systems we provide have 6 rear USB ports and 2 front ports. However for around £4 you can add additional USB PCI card if further USB devices need to be added. The motherboard for a 6 user machine should have enough slots for say 3 x dual head graphics cards. There's no real way around this without losing the multimedia and adding in proprietory hardware and we don't want to go down this route.

 

Be really interesting to hear another MS point of view. I think it's best that pressure come from the end user market, as we find that it takes up to 6 months when we go direct. We are in the middle of a large opportunity with MS which is why I'd place a wager that you don't get your answer as quickly as you'd like.

 

How do you guys think Windows should be licensed on SoftXpand without going into the terminology of it?

Cheers,

Col

[Bluetooth]

As far as i understand it especially if the network is done via device cals, it should only be 1 licence per machine but i hate licensing stuff and it always confuses me. I can see there might be an issue, 1 license being split into 5 virtual machines and such and the guy at ms did say that if that is their determination then it should have licenses for each VM.

 

Blah, dunno, interesting peice of software and certainly keeps the cash in the school budget but even so, if we have to shell out another £500 on CoA's then it would still be worth it tbh.