NT backup is that good enough?

[FN-GM]

Would you recommend using NT Backup for backing up Active Directory or something else such as Veritas?

 

Thanks

 

Z

[mattx]

Well as a belt and braces approach I use both.

I have Veritas running everyday + volume snaps using NT Backup copying the configs of the servers to NAS boxes.

That way I will always sleep better at night knowing I can get a AD backup somehow etc....

Only a few months ago this approach was a life saver when our mail server died and the backups I did have were corrupt - [ no way of verifing the backup - its a Navaho box ] - as I had two sets I kept going back till I found a good one. OK it was 4 days old but it was better than nothing. The only person who complained got quite a mouthful from me. Everyone else thanked me.

[PEO]

Veritas and nt backup used here you can never have enough backups

[Dos_Box]

Retrospect. I wouldn't touch NT Backup wothj a bargepole. I may have a play with it on 2008 though.

 

*marks it down as a job for next week, just after coughing up almost £600 for a new clutch+fitting*

[PEO]

nt backup is ideal for a secondary incase primary fails, wouldn't use a primary

[mattx]

Retrospect. I wouldn't touch NT Backup wothj a bargepole. I may have a play with it on 2008 though.

 

 

Why not ? It does the basic job. For a small server with hardly any data or apps on I would say its ok. For the less technical minded its simple to setup and use.

[Michael]

I use 2003 NTBackup at all my sites. It easily does the job. Just make sure you always backup the System State as this would include Active Directory.

 

With 2008 NTBackup, you can't backup to tape anymore, so a third party soluton is the only way. You can only backup to file.

[cookie_monster]

I've restored quite a few servers from 2003 NTBackup and never had a problem, the scheduling can be a bit quirky but that quality of the backups has always been flawless (inc Active Directory). I find it handy to run off a backup to file before any large updates. We use Backup Exec on most servers but a couple of standalone boxes are NT Backup only.

 

As stated above it's good to have an alternative.

[timbo343]

Ive used it loads of times, but you have to remember that if you have got any private data and you want to encrypt the backup, NTbackup will not support encryption

[m25man]

I have restored more servers sucessfully with NT Backup than Veritas!

 

The problem with Veritas and other suites is that in trying to insulate the user by wrapping everything up into databases and wizards it's easy to miss the basics!

 

I have had sites that have evolved themselves such complicated Veritas jobs that are entirely focused on protecting the end user data they ended up never having any system or AD protection!

 

I use NTBackup daily to protect my own SBS2003 system to NAS and USB drives and have even used these backups to rebuild the server in a Vitual environment.

 

Enterprise products such as Veritas are really only necessary if you have multiple servers and storage that need to be backed up and managed centrally.

 

NTBackup has very little to offer in the management of removable media, and therefore after a few weeks it can become very difficult to tell what is actually stored on each piece of media without performing a catalog of each piece in order to find what it was you needed so urgently.

 

As Veritas wrote the origional NTBackup core code it was inevitable that for anything beyond the basic backup/restore functions requires an upgrade and like all things technical you get what you pay for!

 

So, if you have just the one server to worry about, then NTBackup is probably all you need. Anything more complex then you had better start looking for packages that suit your own requirements.

[torledo]

I think it's easy to get put off by the apparent complexity of a package such as backup exec. therefore you only use the basic functionality....and you don't explore it enough to use some of the advanced features. As a basic point and click backup app, ntbackup is more intutitive...

 

I remember borrowing an old BackupExec manual from work when it was a seagate product a few years ago. And the manual must have been somehting like 400 pages.

 

From that point of view i agree with m25man and mattx, that ntbackups simplicity is a key feature when you have straightforward requirements.

 

It is restricted, but useful in some circumstances, all to easy for you're backup environment to outgrow...that's when you need vertia/symantec or equivalent. After all ntbackup instances can't be centrally managed, and what about stuff like open file support, database and mail agents etc ?

 

And for some environments even the veritas product lacks the functionality available in products such as commvault or TSM. Where you need more advanced disk based backup functionality, or you need better integration with enteprise storage arrays.

 

I think it's a step back for NTbackup with the apparent removal of tape media support. I guess they assume all NTbackup users are backing up to usb drives.

[john]

Retrospect. I wouldn't touch NT Backup wothj a bargepole. I may have a play with it on 2008 though.

 

*marks it down as a job for next week, just after coughing up almost £600 for a new clutch+fitting*

 

Ever think that MS are going to be grilled about that and the lack of tape support on Wednesday in the open Q&A Session at the end

[Dos_Box]

Ever think that MS are going to be grilled about that and the lack of tape support on Wednesday in the open Q&A Session at the end

 

Are you going?

[PEO]

Ever think that MS are going to be grilled about that and the lack of tape support on Wednesday in the open Q&A Session at the end

 

Its a bloody good question. but with HDD storage cheap as ever and getting much larger, with NAS and raid, do we really really need tape drives?

[john]

Are you going?

Yup I am, I did post in the thread to say I was. I think theres just you and me and possibly another, or was that someone that went to one elsewhere

[torledo]

Its a bloody good question. but with HDD storage cheap as ever and getting much larger, with NAS and raid, do we really really need tape drives?

 

yes we do.

[PEO]

yes we do.

 

imthinking in termsof cost...

 

Why do we really need tape drives when hdd are cheaper?

[john]

Its okai storing to Terrastores, NAS#s etc but you can't always have them in different locations and there often not portable. I can take one tape home a week away from site as site may burn to the ground loosing all the data. Fine okai fireproof safes etc i know, but its safe knowing that the tape is in my house locked in my safe so its secure and its a good way away from work so work can burn and I can still restore the critical stuff. If it was on a SAN in the server room and it all burnt, your stuffed.

[zag]

yes we do.

 

After sitting infront of a tape drive and hearing all kinds of strange noises on my main(and only) accounting backup a few years ago, eventually getting no data off 7 seperate tapes due to "degredation". I never used tapes again Managed to pay a company to restore the hard disk!

 

Tape = dead technology!

 

For the people using NTbackup, how do they check the scheduling? Last time I used the windows scheduler it kept stopping every time there was a daylight saving time event in the calendar. That's why I eventually moved to backup exec and have to say have never had any problems.

[plexer]

I use backup assist on top of nt backup this does all the scheduling etc.. for you.

 

Ben

[cookie_monster]

Tape = dead technology!

 

No while i agree that tape is coming to an end it still has a place and will be used for some time yet. Your problem there was not testing your backup system often enough to realise that your backup wasn't working as the device was faulty.

I've restored loads of servers from LTO tapes and never had an issue just make sure you don't use tapes forever and check that the device is actually working.

 

 

I just use the windows schedular for running jobs and haven't had an issue but we do only use NTBackup on one server.

[torledo]

After sitting infront of a tape drive and hearing all kinds of strange noises on my main(and only) accounting backup a few years ago, eventually getting no data off 7 seperate tapes due to "degredation". I never used tapes again Managed to pay a company to restore the hard disk!

 

Tape = dead technology!

 

For the people using NTbackup, how do they check the scheduling? Last time I used the windows scheduler it kept stopping every time there was a daylight saving time event in the calendar. That's why I eventually moved to backup exec and have to say have never had any problems.

 

for small business and schools with a handful of servers the upfront cost of tape may mean it's a dead technology, but that's not the case for medium to large businesses.

 

I don't know what the figures are for annual spend on tape technology for large orgs but tape is still very much a part of they're backup processes. what offsite really means is portable, and a disk array locked in a server room susceptibable to criminal damage, flood, fire or eathquake is not secure enough.

 

As for usb hdds, that's fine if you've got a handful of servers to backup. But is it really manageable and cost effective to backup 12 servers to individual hdds ? How about 20 servers, what do you do if you get to 50 servers ?

 

D2D2T is also very popular. D2D or tape emulation to disk is the most efficient and cost effective method of backup...but caching or offloading to tape is essential for offsite storgae. Even companies with a RAID disk array at a remote site to replicate to will still copy that data to tape.

 

Give me some examples of companies eliminating tape from they're backup workflow to convince me it's a dead technology ?

Edited May 6, 2008 by torledo

[john]

Okai, I should add to this thread, They were asked the question about tape and basically you can get System Centre Data Protection Manger for a few squids (it is they claim very cheap for education) and that will allow tape support in 2008. Not tried it myself, but do have DPM somewhere either in Technet+ or Actionpack so there may still be light....

[dave.81]

I'm in the process of stopping our Tape backups, although currently doing both. We are on a large sites, 80 acres with 6 buildings not being attached to each other, other than fibre. NAS boxes in each running their own backups, if all 6 buildings burn down i think we'll have bigger problems than the backups.

[cookie_monster]

We said something similar as we have separate buildings but a governor that works in industry still isn't happy.

 

NAS boxes while in use are still open to a massive virus or hack attack.

 

We are under a busy flight path so he said imagine a situation where in the holiday (so we can put aside the 1500 dead students debate) a plane crashed on the site and destroyed both buildings. That's allot of lost work, records and i'd imagine the IT department would be under heavy scrutiny from SLT the LA and parents whose kids had lost all of their GCSE/A level corse work.

 

So it’s still a good idea to slowly backup your NAS boxes onto tape (one modern LTO device should be enough) and take them off site at least once a month.