Smoothwall Mobile apps

[mark-p]

Hello smoothwallers.

I'm a smooth wall newbie after using other products for longer than I like to admit.

I need to keep my byod staff and 6th formers happy by getting most of those services going that they've been used to. Twitter, Instagram Snapchat, to name just a few.

Has anyone had success with this?

Cheers

Mark

[Primus]

Are you seriously going to allow SnapChat?!

[mark-p]

Yes I thought this would raise some eyebrows. It's more about me knowing how to allow an app rather than me actually allowing it.

At the moment sixth form are complaining to the head that the service is pretty useless (I know they are teenagers I've had/have four of my own)

Students who visit from a nearby school for some subjects are bringing stories of a land of milk and honey and full service, unfortunately in this day and age it's daft things like this that

can affect subscription numbers. When every student is worth £4k per annum, you've got to get every bum on the seat you can.

[Primus]

Yes I thought this would raise some eyebrows. It's more about me knowing how to allow an app rather than me actually allowing it.

At the moment sixth form are complaining to the head that the service is pretty useless (I know they are teenagers I've had/have four of my own)

Students who visit from a nearby school for some subjects are bringing stories of a land of milk and honey and full service, unfortunately in this day and age it's daft things like this that

can affect subscription numbers. When every student is worth £4k per annum, you've got to get every bum on the seat you can.

 

Not at the cost of safeguarding it's not!

[AlanD]

Smoothwall...just tick the box to allow social media....or so you might think.

 

The reality is that many of not most apps ...are a nightmare to use with smoothwall (no; they don't tell you this....). To be fair, they are possibly just as problematic with other filtering solutions.

 

Many mobile apps use certificate pining (so you can't use https interception). Some - like spoitfy - need rules in your firewall as well as in your filter.

 

They often use different URLs than the desktop versions....

 

There are some KB articles on smoothwall's site.

 

...and I'm not sure about opening these up to students....but staff quite like it....

[mark-p]

Cool, Thanks Dave

So it is as I suspected it was going to be.

Pick an app and slog it through. Then pick the next one etc

 

Cheers

Mark

[MartinT]

We allow most social media apps but some are problematic and even behave differently between iOS and Android. They each require research to find the right URL and firewall settings.

 

There is no way we'll ever allow Snapchat, Kik or the like through our network!

[mark-p]

Thanks for your encouraging reply Martin. I'll just take one at a time. Cheers Mark

[Opendium_Steve]

Not at the cost of safeguarding it's not!

 

Different schools have different, but equally reasonable, attitudes to this stuff:

 

If you allow most apps, the kids will use your wifi. Some apps can't be monitored and the school incurs some liability if the kids get up to no good, but a lot of traffic can be monitored, allowing you to monitor the kids' online behaviour for safeguarding purposes.

 

If you block an app that the kids decide they "need" to use, they are still going to use that app (and possibly get up to no good with it) - they will just use 4G instead of your wifi. Now none of their traffic is on your wifi, so you lose the ability to monitor the traffic that you otherwise would have been able to. On the other hand, if something bad happens, the school can disclaim all responsibility by pointing out that the children weren't using the school's wifi at the time. But this doesn't help safeguard the kids, of course.

 

There isn't an easy answer and we've got customers in both camps. I think both positions are pretty understandable though (I do wish the DfE, Ofsted and the Safer Internet Centre would come up with some sensible guidance on this - the current Keeping Children Safe just says that schools "should carefully consider how [3G/4G] is managed on their premises" which doesn't really cut it does it?).

[Norphy]

(I do wish the DfE, Ofsted and the Safer Internet Centre would come up with some sensible guidance on this - the current Keeping Children Safe just says that schools "should carefully consider how [3G/4G] is managed on their premises" which doesn't really cut it does it?).

 

Dear lord, does it really say that? Just how are schools supposed to manage 3G connections in their buildings? Deliberately blocking mobile signals is illegal so the only real way a school can manage this is to ban the usage of mobile devices while on the premises which may or may not work depending on how well a school does discipline.

 

Not having a go at you by the way, just trying to show how incredulous I find that

[JATSO]

Dear lord, does it really say that? Just how are schools supposed to manage 3G connections in their buildings? Deliberately blocking mobile signals is illegal so the only real way a school can manage this is to ban the usage of mobile devices while on the premises which may or may not work depending on how well a school does discipline.

 

Not having a go at you by the way, just trying to show how incredulous I find that

 

Be lucky to get a 3G/4G signal in any school with EE:D

[Opendium_Steve]

Dear lord, does it really say that? Just how are schools supposed to manage 3G connections in their buildings?

 

Yes, page 94 of the 2018 edition:

Whilst filtering and monitoring is an important part of the online safety picture for schools and colleges to consider, it is only one part. Governors and proprietors should consider a whole school or college approach to online safety. This will include a clear policy on the use of mobile technology in the school or college. Many children have unlimited and unrestricted access to the internet via 3G and 4G in particular and the school and college should carefully consider how this is managed on their premises.

 

So the DfE have definitely weaselled out of giving any useful advice there.

 

Deliberately blocking mobile signals is illegal so the only real way a school can manage this is to ban the usage of mobile devices while on the premises which may or may not work depending on how well a school does discipline.

 

Yes, I presume they are talking about policies and discipline rather than any technical means. e.g. A school could tell everyone that all phones must use the wifi, not 3G/4G while on the school's premises, but realistically how can you enforce that? Anyway, a lot of students aren't technical enough to ensure they comply with that kind of rule even if they wanted to. Banning mobile phones entirely for the whole school day sounds a bit unreasonable.

 

Jamming phone signals is illegal, I think passively blocking them is legal (e.g. foil lined walls) but I'm not sure schools want to go down that route either.

 

Not having a go at you by the way, just trying to show how incredulous I find that

 

Don't worry - I was pretty incredulous the first time I read the guidance.

 

The UK Safer Internet Centre's advice is that when choosing a filtering system you should "To what extent does the filter system block inappropriate content via mobile and app technologies". This is also pretty unhelpful since it doesn't address the fact for many apps, no filtering system can "block inappropriate content" without blocking the whole app.

 

On the other hand, Ofsted inspectors have pulled up some schools for blocking too many social networking apps, because this left the kids unable to communicate with family and peers. So schools are getting very conflicted advice.

[Primus]

Different schools have different, but equally reasonable, attitudes to this stuff:

 

If you allow most apps, the kids will use your wifi. Some apps can't be monitored and the school incurs some liability if the kids get up to no good, but a lot of traffic can be monitored, allowing you to monitor the kids' online behaviour for safeguarding purposes.

 

If you block an app that the kids decide they "need" to use, they are still going to use that app (and possibly get up to no good with it) - they will just use 4G instead of your wifi. Now none of their traffic is on your wifi, so you lose the ability to monitor the traffic that you otherwise would have been able to. On the other hand, if something bad happens, the school can disclaim all responsibility by pointing out that the children weren't using the school's wifi at the time. But this doesn't help safeguard the kids, of course.

 

There isn't an easy answer and we've got customers in both camps. I think both positions are pretty understandable though (I do wish the DfE, Ofsted and the Safer Internet Centre would come up with some sensible guidance on this - the current Keeping Children Safe just says that schools "should carefully consider how [3G/4G] is managed on their premises" which doesn't really cut it does it?).

 

As well they might - but SnapChat - really?! I'd consider our filtering policy and environment in general relatively relaxed but seriously SnapChat?!

[Primus]

Yes, page 94 of the 2018 edition:

 

 

So the DfE have definitely weaselled out of giving any useful advice there.

 

 

 

Yes, I presume they are talking about policies and discipline rather than any technical means. e.g. A school could tell everyone that all phones must use the wifi, not 3G/4G while on the school's premises, but realistically how can you enforce that? Anyway, a lot of students aren't technical enough to ensure they comply with that kind of rule even if they wanted to. Banning mobile phones entirely for the whole school day sounds a bit unreasonable.

 

Jamming phone signals is illegal, I think passively blocking them is legal (e.g. foil lined walls) but I'm not sure schools want to go down that route either.

 

 

 

Don't worry - I was pretty incredulous the first time I read the guidance.

 

The UK Safer Internet Centre's advice is that when choosing a filtering system you should "To what extent does the filter system block inappropriate content via mobile and app technologies". This is also pretty unhelpful since it doesn't address the fact for many apps, no filtering system can "block inappropriate content" without blocking the whole app.

 

On the other hand, Ofsted inspectors have pulled up some schools for blocking too many social networking apps, because this left the kids unable to communicate with family and peers. So schools are getting very conflicted advice.

 

Can you supply links to these reports please? I know Ofsted have been known to criticise overzealous filtering but I've never heard this applied to social networking being filtered!

[Primus]

Yes, page 94 of the 2018 edition:

 

 

So the DfE have definitely weaselled out of giving any useful advice there.

 

 

 

Yes, I presume they are talking about policies and discipline rather than any technical means. e.g. A school could tell everyone that all phones must use the wifi, not 3G/4G while on the school's premises, but realistically how can you enforce that? Anyway, a lot of students aren't technical enough to ensure they comply with that kind of rule even if they wanted to. Banning mobile phones entirely for the whole school day sounds a bit unreasonable.

 

Jamming phone signals is illegal, I think passively blocking them is legal (e.g. foil lined walls) but I'm not sure schools want to go down that route either.

 

 

 

Don't worry - I was pretty incredulous the first time I read the guidance.

 

The UK Safer Internet Centre's advice is that when choosing a filtering system you should "To what extent does the filter system block inappropriate content via mobile and app technologies". This is also pretty unhelpful since it doesn't address the fact for many apps, no filtering system can "block inappropriate content" without blocking the whole app.

 

On the other hand, Ofsted inspectors have pulled up some schools for blocking too many social networking apps, because this left the kids unable to communicate with family and peers. So schools are getting very conflicted advice.

 

Just to followup on this again but students are not in school to communicate with family digitally. If they are communicating with peers digitally it should be using a school chosen platform - not something like SnapChat! I would be very interested to see these Ofsted reports as they bear no resemblance to Ofsted reports that I have read nor inspections I have been involved in.

[MartinT]

The only way to follow the guidelines to 'manage' 3G/4G use is to appeal to parents, which I do every time I give a talk to them. I ask them to ensure that they have a teenage filter applied by the service provider and warn them of the evil nature of Snapchat. I suggest (but can do no more than that) that they remove the Snapchat app from their childrens' phones. As far as the wi-fi is concerned, Snapchat is blocked for all, including staff. However, I'd like to have the DSL more onside as she thinks Snapchat is ok really. WTF?

 

Now, of course, Instagram seems to be taking over as the medium of unacceptable behaviour.

 

The ISI are very much like Ofsted and encourage us to allow more communications with parents. We are a boarding school with international pupils so that's important.

[Opendium_Steve]

The only way to follow the guidelines to 'manage' 3G/4G use is to appeal to parents, which I do every time I give a talk to them. I ask them to ensure that they have a teenage filter applied by the service provider

 

If you encourage parents to install "parental control" software on their childrens' devices, please please talk to your filtering provider first since they should be able to make some recommendations about what will/won't work. A lot of the parental control systems VPN all of the child's traffic back to a central server, even when connected to the school's wifi, which means the school can't monitor the traffic.

 

We had the DSL at one school email all the parents with a list of parental control software he thought they should install without having even talked to the school's ICT folks - needless to say he very quickly had to apologise to parents as soon as it was pointed out that the software he had recommended would bypass the school's own filtering and monitoring.

 

Some parental control software is ok though, and obviously any network based stuff at the mobile provider's end is fine since it won't be used when on the school's wifi.