[sims] Where will you get your SIMS patches from?

[mrwoberts]

That was the question our LA posed to the bursar in a cold call this afternoon.

This was following our decision not to buy-back into their SIMS support, £1,000 per year - we almost didn't use it last year.

 

For a moment I thought this has to be a joke, but now I'm wondering whether this is true?

 

If we don't pay our LA for SIMS telephone and upgrade support, will Capita not release the patches to our Solus server??

 

EDIT:

 

We are part of a 4 school MAT, currently hosting FMS (what a joke) through Capita, but on-premise SIMS at the moment.

No unified response from the MAT leaders so each school are having to sort out their own provision for SIMS.

Edited July 5, 2018 by mrwoberts

[Chrisbf1]

Sims support from the LA is a little bit like Brexit. They have the power and will hold you ransom with it. Project Fear !

[mrwoberts]

Sims support from the LA is a little bit like Brexit. They have the power and will hold you ransom with it. Project Fear !

 

[matt40k]

No pay, no patches. No patches, not gonna be able to do Census. You could switch MIS, but I doubt you'll find one or doesn't charge you. You've got to at least pay the maintenance cost.

[CAM]

You have a choice:

 

1) Pay your LA, MAT or other support provider for SIMS support. This includes patching, technical support, training, backups, software maintenance and expert knowledge with SIMS modules and the census. Price varies depending on what SLA you pick.

 

2) Pay Capita for support. But you don't get bells or whistles and you have to do everything listed above yourself. Want to apply a patch? DIY. Got a problem with the census? Time to dig up a solution here or on SupportNet. You could go Hosted if you want but you will still have to pay extra for training, etc.

 

3) Pay nothing. You can still do your census but you have to prepare it in Excel if you enjoy that sort of thing.

[gh5000]

That was the question our LA posed to the bursar in a cold call this afternoon.

This was following our decision not to buy-back into their SIMS support, £1,000 per year - we almost didn't use it last year.

 

For a moment I thought this has to be a joke, but now I'm wondering whether this is true?

 

If we don't pay our LA for SIMS telephone and upgrade support, will Capita not release the patches to our Solus server??

 

EDIT:

 

We are part of a 4 school MAT, currently hosting FMS (what a joke) through Capita, but on-premise SIMS at the moment.

No unified response from the MAT leaders so each school are having to sort out their own provision for SIMS.

I believe the cost of your Sims licenses, whether you pay capita directly or through your LA, include the most basic of support through capita which should include the upgrades.

 

Though I would say £1k seems good if it is for pretty quick response support (basic capita support is slow). Our LA support is north of £6k PA.

[CAM]

I believe the cost of your Sims licenses, whether you pay capita directly or through your LA, include the most basic of support through capita which should include the upgrades.

 

Though I would say £1k seems good if it is for pretty quick response support (basic capita support is slow). Our LA support is north of £6k PA.

 

Yes that's the maintenance fee which applies updates termly. But you still have to tell SOLUS to deal with the patches and contact Capita to get them released. My LA asks then does it for us and they have most solutions at hand already in their knowledgebase so they don't need to wait for Capita support to get smaller patches to fix specific issues.

 

On the note of licences, there was a case during the initial academy conversions where schools were using LA licences that were provided at a discount cost and became invalid on leaving LA control. Check if you are using an LA licence first (did they fix this?).

Edited July 5, 2018 by CAM

[mrwoberts]

Thanks for the info chaps.

 

To make matters more murky, they are still charging us for Census support, so now I'm left wondering whether that in fact still includes the patches required to do the census??

We do pay for SIMS licenses, and I believe the cost was adapted when we moved FMS to hosted, but I'm going to clarify this with the bursar on Friday.

 

In essence, all we want are the patches (maintenance), the rest we have experience within the MAT to deal with, or places to turn to when in need - Capita, Edugeek...

 

Another question...

One of the schools opted to keep the Silver service. May the downloaded patches/updates be used within the MAT schools? Seems unlikely, but thought I'd ask.

[MkII]

If you moved to SIMS hosted would that solve the problem?

[matt40k]

If you moved to SIMS hosted would that solve the problem?

Pretty sure Capita still charge you £'s for SIMS even if you are hosted. I'd wager they charge more too

[MkII]

Presumably the OP is still paying for SIMS, just not the 3rd party support. Hosted seems to be about £1500pa plus £500 setup at the moment (30 users). Take away local server costs and upgrades, maintenance and patches and that seems reasonable I think?

[matt40k]

If Capita has phoned up saying they won't get patches, that says to me, no they aren't.

 

£1500pa plus £500 setup - That's just for hosting. If you look at Digitalmarket place you can get an entire MIS, hosted, managed, all in for around that sort of price, SIMS just looks expensive. https://www.digitalmarketplace.service.gov.uk/g-cloud/search?q=mis

[MkII]

Nah he said the LA told his bursar. Not Capita.

 

Don't make me defend Capita, but hosted includes management doesn't it?

Oh you mean with all the add ons built in. Granted.

Edited July 5, 2018 by MkII

[mrwoberts]

Thanks again.

 

At the moment, I think I'd be smacked down if I suggested shifting MIS. Frustratingly though, the MAT drivers are just a bit passive when it comes to sorting out stuff like this, which is arguably a big money saver if you get it right. Capita know it can be a bit daunting to change and they probably play on that fact.

 

I for one would be happy to move to a true cloud solution. I'd even be happy to give up time to meet with a company who can deliver on it's promises of such a product.

On a separate note, it's the LA and their solicitors who are putting every block in the road to delay us moving away from their BT unicorn (recommended) broadband solution, which means our current broadband just couldn't entertain the added pressure of a hosted solution.

[MrMat]

Local Authority dude here!

 

Firstly, we’re not all gits Well we try not to be anyway but I do understand the frustration. Unfortunately, a lot of LA’s still operate with the big-headed ‘you have to use us’ attitude and they’re continually shooting themselves in the foot (feet?)

 

They are sort of correct though, you do have to buy your SIMS support from someone but it certainly doesn’t have to be from them.

 

Providing you’re an Academy then you can go to whomever you wish for your SIMS support be it Capita, the LA or a third party support unit (I think https://www.babcock4s.co.uk/ are over your way but there’re loads of options; https://www.scomis.org , https://sipseducation.co.uk etc). Other LA's can also support you (we support Academies outside of our LA for example).

 

If you really don’t need much support, just shop around for the cheapest you can find or, strike up a conversation with a few as they may be able to do you’re a bare-bones deal just for the patch/upgrade support etc.

Edited July 6, 2018 by MrMat

[DSapseid]

I pay capita direct for the licences and the basic support which covers all patches and upgrades.

 

The LA offered an enhanced support package that was nearly £5k a year which entitled us to remote support when needed, in 3 years of paying this i think i used it 3 times and they didnt answer the problem on any of them, i found the answers either on here or on the capita supportnet articles.

 

I have now canceled this enhanced support and taken out another support with a local sims support provider, its actually the old LA SIMS support team before capita bought out the IT for the LA and its about £700 a year!

[MrWu]

Interesting post, I too am frustrated with the response times from Capita support ... it’s just layers of 1st, 2nd bad 3rd line support passing your enquiries around ... are people using third party support instead ?