caffrey Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I've got a new cab to install due to relocation of an IT Suite and I'm wondering if I can just get away with a copper uplink instead of costing in a pre term fibre (Along with fibre patch panel etc. etc.) . I'd run the copper in 6e and probably connect to the 10G switch ports on unifi switches. The run is internal Distance is about 50m, obviously I would prefer fibre but not sure it's worth it in this instance
ThatBoringBloke Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Personally, Copper. For both cost and ease. 1
Boredguy Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 For that distance internally, I'd just put a double run of copper in so you had redundancy. 1
caffrey Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 Thanks, copper it is - will be a lot easier for me too as the run is going to be messy
mikkydoos Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Over 50m... CAT6a should give you 10Gbps over about 100m - good for future proofing. CAT6 might give you upward of 1Gbps. CAT5 Probably just about 1Gbps but really pushing it. OM2/OM3 fibre might be overkill but thats what I'd use. Edited June 27, 2018 by mikkydoos
Blue_Cookeh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Cab to cab is always fibre for me. Ideally 8 cores to our L3 cab, and another 8 to one of our other access cabs for redundancy since you can buy 16 port fibre patch panels. You never know what the uplink requirements are going to be and it's a lot easier to pull a cable once than it is a second time in 10 to 15 years' time. Some OM3 fibre will last a lot longer than Cat5e or even Cat6a (assuming the run is <100m). This gives me an easy way to connect everything back to our L3 switches, even if a cab ends up with multiple routers/switches in, so daisy chaining is limited. Edited June 27, 2018 by Blue_Cookeh
caffrey Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 Usually always fibre for me too, but this is a little cab with about 25 devices attached to it. The pre term comes to about £200 for a 50m length plus cost of fibre patch panel etc., I could get our usual fibre contractor in but will probably be even more expensive - £50 or so for 50m of copper 6a
Blue_Cookeh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 https://www.fs.com/products/39041.html @caffrey customise it to 50m, LSZH jacket, 2.0m breakout leg (so you don't need a fibre patch panel) with the connectors you need on both ends - roughly 50 quid. 1
caffrey Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 That's cheap!, thanks might just go that route then
synaesthesia Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Personally copper here, not sure why on earth anyone would struggle to get 1Gbit out of cat5 unless they're using cable made from cheese. That's just down to ease of termination & repair should something go wrong. And something can quite easily go wrong pulling pre-term fibre cables through tight spaces no matter how careful you are or what you're using to tie them together with.
mikkydoos Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Personally copper here, not sure why on earth anyone would struggle to get 1Gbit out of cat5 Not for 30 machines over 50m @synaesthesia Maybe 1 machine.
synaesthesia Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Ah gotcha, makes sense when you give it context
Blue_Cookeh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Personally copper here, not sure why on earth anyone would struggle to get 1Gbit out of cat5 unless they're using cable made from cheese. That's just down to ease of termination & repair should something go wrong. And something can quite easily go wrong pulling pre-term fibre cables through tight spaces no matter how careful you are or what you're using to tie them together with. Once the fibre has been installed you'll find you'll have far more flexibility into the future, particularly as you'd usually pull 4-12 cores at a time. Schools aren't likely to hit it, but OM3 over 100m can potentially give you up to 100Gbps uplink iirc (or at least 40)
PotNoodleTech Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 If it's internal, 50m and the route is straightforward then copper every time. It offers best value for the cable cost, lack of requirement for SFPs etc. If it's external or needs to be routed externally then I'd go for pre terminated fibre.
mjk Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 It's about choosing the most appropriate system. If it's possible to use cat6 then that is often a good choice. There are good reasons for this: Fibre connectors are more flimsy and prone to damage, It can't do PoE, Transceivers are more expensive, Fibre connectors should be cleaned regularly as they absorb moisture. If you need a particularly high attenuation, the potential for more bandwidth, avoid electromagnetic interference or run between buildings then fibre would be the right choice, but for a couple of 50M uplinks it's probably a waste of resources.
Blue_Cookeh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I realise I'm probably harping on a bit but it seems that we're talking about a cab uplink. For the cost of a couple of SFPs (15 quid a pop) and the fibre (the same as cat6a) it seems silly not to future proof yourself. On a four core fibre run you're getting at least x2 runs out of that cable rather than the x1 the same length of cat6a would provide with fewer options for future proofing. Cab uplinks don't need to carry PoE and never in my life have I had to clean ST or LC connectors that have sat in switches for 5+ years. Again, it's a permanent cab uplink, there should be minimal chance of breaking the fibre.
Oaktech Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Fibre for preference, but I understand that the purse strings won't always let you have what's best. I think you you could quite happily do a few runs of copper and trunk them and they'll be fine. Most of my school runs on trunked multiple copper links because it's cheap, I can do them in house and the distances aren't long.
synaesthesia Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 True, but there's always going to be "what-ifs". In a newbuild with proper cable trays in false ceilings, server rooms with false floors etc it's a given. However in 200 year old buildings with trunking stacked ontop of trunking, holes made in walls that no SDS drill dare to hammer against because they're just too damned thick, cable ducts and runs between buildings meant to cope with an RJ11 or two maximum. All those very good reasons why we only have a few fibre runs... and rats have gone through a couple of them in the past!
caffrey Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 Dividing subject it seems, should've done a poll Problem I have with pre term is that you can't account for issues on the run - so you either have this horrible feeling you're too short or have a lot of fibre coiled up above the cab. The run I have to do is from a 1st floor cupboard to the ground floor through a concrete floor in an area of the building I've never lifted a tile in... Just noticed the lead times on fs.com too
synaesthesia Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I don't think it's too dividing, it is just going to change a lot depending on circumstances, buildings, budgets, abilities etc.
Blue_Cookeh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 There is of course option 3 ............. [ATTACH=CONFIG]49506[/ATTACH] Get off my lawn! You kids with your pesky Ethernet, back in my day we had token ring and we damn well liked it!
PotNoodleTech Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 Get off my lawn! You kids with your pesky Ethernet, back in my day we had token ring and we damn well liked it! Just pulled out the token ring whilst refurbishing an IT suite. it must have been "our first" IT suite. Sad. Progress marches ever onwards!
mjk Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Just pulled out the token ring whilst refurbishing an IT suite. it must have been "our first" IT suite. Sad. Progress marches ever onwards! Are you sure it wasn't a coaxial 10Base-2 ethernet ? I've been around schools a while and never encountered token ring in a school. Edited June 28, 2018 by mjk
PotNoodleTech Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Are you sure it wasn't a coaxial 10Base-2 ethernet ? I've been around schools a while and never encountered token ring in a school. Yep, all using IBM type 1 connectors too. The room a big junction box on the wall and 3 "boy George" drops dotted around the room. Edited June 28, 2018 by PotNoodleTech
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