FTTP On Demand Anyone?

[AlanD]

I noticed that our postcode now comes up as "FTTP on Demand available".

 

Even with 10 ot 20% contention the 330Mb/s would be a lost faster than a 100Mb/s leased line which costs a lot more.

 

And the upfront installation costs would soon be reclaimed by the savings in not paying for a leased line.

 

Anyone done this? What provider did you use (every provider I've asked says they don't do FTTP ...do any provide the service - or is it figment of Openreache's imagination)

[Katy]

I'm considering it but just started a 3 year leased line at school, and about a year left on a virgin contract at home.

 

Look at the prices and speeds supposedly available! Yes it's the wholesale price so will cost more but still... £960+VAT/year for 1Gb down/220Mb up

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=LNo28YEt6b0mlOac%2BC6kSQFXgQ2BCzCEU1ae6o4sFOyrmMllOOG7b%2F12AmPFLBERe6YShZ82RgLOGLsH2e9%2Bmw%3D%3D

[Blue_Cookeh]

I'd be hugely interested in this. Our school is on the far end of a FTTC connection at the moment and we have to have kids on one connection and staff on the other since we can only get 20Mbps on either :/ A few years ago Virgin wanted £20,000 for a leased line install and BT 70,000! (3 months before they announced FTTC in our area... I think they were trying to get us to pay for a load of their own product's install cost!) Edited March 6, 2018 by Blue_Cookeh

[Wave9_Lee]

FttP OD is available in lots of places, and yes we can offer it. The install charges might surprise you currently as they can be very high - Openreach basically getting you to pay for fibre build-out. The further you are from an aggregation node, the more you will pay, £10k plus in the furthest sites. They are gradually rolling out FttP (the 'not on demand' version) but this is based on local demand, but also designed not to cannabalise their enterprise connectivity business. This has always been the case with BT. In parallel we are seeing leased line prices coming down at a steady rate. Also don't forget that the prices you see on Openreach is generally for the last few hundred metres of connectivity. There will still be backhaul and internet transit to pay for (or a share of) . Leased Line (EAD) from an exchange to a site is often sub £2k per annum - the rest of the cost is backhaul, internet transit, monitoring, CPE, support, backoffice etc etc. So the like for like comparison between FttPOD and ethernet leased line, might not be as far apart as you expect over a 3-5 year period.

[SchoolsBroadband]

We trialled FTTOpD a while ago and it was a nightmare!! Took ages to install compared to a leased line and in a couple of instances the ECC / install charges actually came out less to install a leased line that FTTPoD. BT Openreach did reduce and simplify the install pricing a short time ago so we may look at it again in the not so distant future.

 

We have quite a few customers using normal BT based FTTP already and will be installing lots more as BT rolls it out to 3 million premises by 2020.

 

My house just managed to get it too so I now have 330Mbit download and 50Mbit upload, NICE

 

Picture of what BT Openreach actually install in your property is below. Note the box on the left is the Openreach modem which is also a VoIP ATA and the box on the right is a UPS to power the ATA in case of a power failure at the property and someone needs to make a 999 emergency call.

 

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[sted]

does the voip stuff mean you can finally have internet without a "land line" as i never use the phone

[SchoolsBroadband]

In a nutshell yes

[FishCustard]

My house just managed to get it too so I now have 330Mbit download and 50Mbit upload, NICE

 

Nice indeed! I'm apparently just next to an area where they're trialling it (Hammersmith)... very envious!

[SchoolsBroadband]

Nice indeed! I'm apparently just next to an area where they're trialling it (Hammersmith)... very envious!

 

BT are also trialling a 1Gbit download and 220Mbit upload version too! Unfortunately not at my house currently though.....

 

Dave

[Norphy]

This is probably a stupid question but why are FTTP connections asymmetrical? That smacks of artificial limitations to me.

[SchoolsBroadband]

BT basically do it so they can do the same service on FTTP or G.Fast (fibre or copper). Also they don't want them to be symmetrical so it doesn't eat into their leased line market.

 

Dave

[SchoolsBroadband]

you may all want to have a read here about peoples woes with FTTPod too!

 

FTTPoD unreal pricing :: Fibre Broadband :: think broadband

 

 

Dave

[SchoolsBroadband]

you may also want to read here

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/03/expensive-reality-uk-fttp-demand-broadband-hits-home.html

 

Dave

[ReBoot]

I have FTTP installed at one of the primary schools I support. We chose the 80/20 service from Zen Internet. Basically the price is the same as FTTC unless you go for the higher speed options which are still very competitive. We are paying around £38 + VAT a month.

 

Very cost effective solution for a small primary - especially the higher speed options. Filtering is an HP Microserver running e2guardian and router a Draytek 2830.

[AlanD]

I have FTTP installed at one of the primary schools I support. We chose the 80/20 service from Zen Internet. Basically the price is the same as FTTC unless you go for the higher speed options which are still very competitive. We are paying around £38 + VAT a month.

 

Very cost effective solution for a small primary - especially the higher speed options. Filtering is an HP Microserver running e2guardian and router a Draytek 2830.

 

 

Did you use FTTP because there was no FTTC enabled cabinet serving the school?

 

How much was the installation cost? Do you know how far they had to put the cable in?

 

(The Draytec 2830....assume you used the WAN connection - although it also supports ADSL...I note the latest 2862 supports higher speed throughput...)

[SchoolsBroadband]

Did you use FTTP because there was no FTTC enabled cabinet serving the school?

 

How much was the installation cost? Do you know how far they had to put the cable in?

 

(The Draytec 2830....assume you used the WAN connection - although it also supports ADSL...I note the latest 2862 supports higher speed throughput...)

 

Hi all,

 

FTTPod does not come in an 80/20 variant, FTTP WBC does though.

 

FTTPod starts with the minimum speed being 160Mbit download and 30Mbit upload and goes up to 1Gbit download and 220Mbit upload.

 

FTTPod is also more expensive wholesale rental costs than FTTP WBC. Considerably more in fact.

 

If you can get FTTP WBC (as I very fortunately can at my house) then its an absolute bargain and I'd urge all primary schools to get it. FTTPoD though is expensive to install, expensive to rent and takes and age to install if you can actually afford the installation!

 

Dave

[ReBoot]

FTTC was not available to the school but FTTP was. The connection fee from Zen was £45.83 which covered a couple of spans of overhead fibre and installation of the CPE in the school (in some cases excess work can incur additional charges from Openreach but this was not case for us).

 

I use the Draytek as its good enough for an 80Mbs connection and configurable for the proxy server which most bundled routers are not. Also very cheap on eBay I think I paid around £30. Yes you use the Ethernet WAN connection and PPoE for FTTC. Not many routers will support the necessary optical connection.

[EXA_Mark]

Just to chip in a bit on this discussion.

 

FTTPOD (at least in its current pushed out technology) is not a replacement technology for leased lines or services like our DarkLight, but a logical step for Openreach to move forward beyond FTTC. It's not a symmetrical service (as has been pointed out), it is not a service that is uncontended, and it will see network congestion, and you will see some BIG install charges.

 

We just had a quote from Openreach last week (every FTTP OD is quoted like a leased line by Openreach, and this usually takes a few days for them to give ISPs an estimate) for one of our schools in a semi-rural part of Northampton, and the initial installation charge was in excess of £16,500. And that is the estimate, to get the firm figure you currently have to pay Openreach £250 + VAT for the survey.

 

To be fair to Openreach, they subsidise (to a degree) all FTTP OD installs, as essentially you are helping pay for the expansion of their network, and the next organisation who wants it will be paying less, but it is still a very expensive option for a lot of people at present.

 

As a comparison, in that same area a 1Gbps on 1Gbps uncontended leased line is a fraction of the installation cost, but more on an annual basis. However over a three year period, the guaranteed 1Gbps symmetrical leased line(in this instance) was cheaper overall.

 

Ultimately these costs will vary massively for FTTP OD (if it's available) throughout the country, depending on your location, so don't think of this as a cheaper way of getting fibre installed. @Blue_Cookeh in your instance if BT wanted £70K a few years ago to install a leased line, you'll probably find it would be very similar as I am guessing from that quote either there was a huge amount of excess construction to get to the school, or you are a long way from BT's fibre nodes.

 

If anyone is interested in FTTP OD (we do the standard FTTP too) then send me a PM and we will get you a quote, and a comparison of other technology costs.

[SchoolsBroadband]

it looks like BT can only install 20 a month throughout the whole country at the moment!!!

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/03/fttp-demand-order-capacity-still-constrained-uk-isps.html

 

Dave

[mavhc]

We're currently 2 primary sized sites, about 2 miles apart. Site 1 has had fiber installed in the past from Virgin Media, Site 2 has had fiber installed from BT and VM, all of which from the Nottinghamshire Council's 1C1N system, which is ending for schools.

 

Is it at all possible to reuse those fiber lines with a new ISP? We really would like to keep our fast upload speeds for cross site vpn access, cross site backup, etc

[SchoolsBroadband]

Yes it is. Both virgin and bt normally install 4 fibres and as only 1 is probably in use we can use one of the spare ones to make a new service. Quite easy.

 

Dave

[mavhc]

Just got prices back from BT for FTTPoD.

 

For the site where BT already installed fiber for our old leased line, when they dug up the road, £12k

For the site where there is no BT fiber: £8k

 

Weird.

 

Might as well just get a leased line for 3 years, same price.

[AlanD]

 

Might as well just get a leased line for 3 years, same price.

 

Except it will be 3 times the speed of a 100mb line (albeit download) ... and after 3 years it’s all win...

 

And gigabit speeds are coming to fttp without any install charges....

[markwilfan]

https://www.truespeed.com/news/2018/free-broadband-for-life-for-schools-village-halls

[mavhc]

Except it will be 3 times the speed of a 100mb line (albeit download) ... and after 3 years it’s all win...

 

And gigabit speeds are coming to fttp without any install charges....

 

With 10:1 contention and longer fix times.

 

Point of FTTPoD is for people who can't get FTTP though, in 3 years hopefully they'll have FTTP'd all the places.