Data Collection Sheets

[Bigbird7]

Just reviewing a school's data collection sheet before it goes out to the September intake to make sure it’s been sorted in terms of GDPR compliance. We are adding our updated privacy notice as an appendix and referring to it in the introduction and accompanying letter to tick that box. The only (I think) relevant consent is the use of photographs consent to which we have added a note about how to remove that consent.

The bit I’m trying to get my head around and would appreciate others thoughts on is the contacts that we ask for. We ask for 3 and there is an additional box if someone wishes to give a 4th. Usually the first two will be the parents who are filling out the form - fine. What about the extra contacts? Where do we stand in asking for this information, for which there is a definite need, but that 3rd party may not even know that we hold their personnel data?

[MrMat]

Not a direct answer to your question, but do you use SIMS? If so, you can get the SIMS Parent App Lite which has a data collection sheet function. It's actually quite a neat solution.

[Bigbird7]

Not a direct answer to your question, but do you use SIMS? If so, you can get the SIMS Parent App Lite which has a data collection sheet function. It's actually quite a neat solution.

 

Integris here unfortunately!

[Sylv3r]

Not particularly answering your question, but I aim interested are you providing a copy of the data you currently hold with the data collection form or have you just created a blank proforma? Two reasons I ask really, how is the information getting to parents is it getting posted or is it going via pupil post? Also, if using the blank proforma method, how easy is it to make a mistake when trying to read someone's hand writing i.e. e-mail address is it a O or 0 and information ends up being sent to the wrong address. I am stuck in two minds what is going to be the best way to do it.

[Bigbird7]

Not particularly answering your question, but I aim interested are you providing a copy of the data you currently hold with the data collection form or have you just created a blank proforma? Two reasons I ask really, how is the information getting to parents is it getting posted or is it going via pupil post? Also, if using the blank proforma method, how easy is it to make a mistake when trying to read someone's hand writing i.e. e-mail address is it a O or 0 and information ends up being sent to the wrong address. I am stuck in two minds what is going to be the best way to do it.

 

It’s a primary school and this is specifically for the new intake in September. We will get some information from the LA who run the admissions process but it is pretty limited. So in this case we have no choice but to do the blank proforma and it will have to be sent by post. Deciphering the handwriting is an issue every year but for example with the email addresses we will send a test to each account. The only alternative that I can think of is to wait until our induction evening and sit everyone down at a screen to complete the necessary information.

 

We certainly need to look at one of the parent app systems going forward for the updates that we will be required to perform.

[rom1984]

I think the three areas you will need to think about are transparency, your lawful bases for holding the data and how excessive/relevant it is in relation to the purposes for which it was collected.

 

Lawful bases: You may not specifically need consent, for example I suspect you are processing the data for a legitimate interest. Either way you would need to document on what bases you are holding the persons data.

 

Transparency: The 3rd/4th person should know that you hold the data. So I think it would be reasonable to contact the person and ask them are you Ok that we have your data to be used for emergency contact.

 

Excessive: You would need to be able to justify having 3/4 separate contacts. For example is it normal in an emergency that you can't get hold of mum, dad, grandparent etc. If so then document that as the reason for having the data.

 

I suspect that even if you contact the 3 or 4th person, unless the person has parental responsibility you won't be passing over any sensitive information to them about the child- you would just be asking them to get in contact with the parent/carer and ask them to contact the school. I think if you cover the 3 things above I can't see it being an issue.

[Bigbird7]

I think the three areas you will need to think about are transparency, your lawful bases for holding the data and how excessive/relevant it is in relation to the purposes for which it was collected.

 

Lawful bases: You may not specifically need consent, for example I suspect you are processing the data for a legitimate interest. Either way you would need to document on what bases you are holding the persons data.

 

Transparency: The 3rd/4th person should know that you hold the data. So I think it would be reasonable to contact the person and ask them are you Ok that we have your data to be used for emergency contact.

 

Excessive: You would need to be able to justify having 3/4 separate contacts. For example is it normal in an emergency that you can't get hold of mum, dad, grandparent etc. If so then document that as the reason for having the data.

 

I suspect that even if you contact the 3 or 4th person, unless the person has parental responsibility you won't be passing over any sensitive information to them about the child- you would just be asking them to get in contact with the parent/carer and ask them to contact the school. I think if you cover the 3 things above I can't see it being an issue.

 

Thanks, I completely agree and it was the transparency point that concerned me. I think most schools will have these extra contacts and the data subjects may not be aware so the point on contacting them is a pertinent one. Fine at the primary school I’m working with but what a task for a large secondary!

[enjay]

Hmm, I'd never thought about the rights of the next-door neighbour from a data collection sheet. I suppose it had never occurred to me they wouldn't know the school had it.

 

That said, you don't need consent to hold it because you have it on the legal basis of child safety. They probably do need informing, though - can you put a line on the form saying "if you enter someone else's details, please ensure you have their permission", would that cut it?

 

As for the risk of this information flying around on paper and getting lost, we give the forms to parents for checking each time they come in for parents' evenings, etc. and ask them to correct any errors on the spot, meaning the form never leaves school.

[rom1984]

can you put a line on the form saying "if you enter someone else's details, please ensure you have their permission", would that cut it?

l.

 

I think you'd need to show transparency towards the person who's personal data it belongs to so would be better to have some procedure in place that actual gets an affirmative yes/no from the actual person.

[enjay]

I think you'd need to show transparency towards the person who's personal data it belongs to so would be better to have some procedure in place that actual gets an affirmative yes/no from the actual person.

 

I'll add it to the list for our DPO to look at :-)

 

Of course, until we have that affirmative yes, we're processing the data illegally!

[enjay]

I think you'd need to show transparency towards the person who's personal data it belongs to so would be better to have some procedure in place that actual gets an affirmative yes/no from the actual person.

 

Hang on, presumably that also applies to dad if mum filled in the form, in which case we need identifiable consent from both parents not just a form signed by one of them.

[rom1984]

Hang on, presumably that also applies to dad if mum filled in the form, in which case we need identifiable consent from both parents not just a form signed by one of them.

 

I think it might be a bit different for a parent just because it would be so obvious that the school would have the contact details of parents that you wouldn't need to be transparent because it is so implied that the school would have them details. Where as with an aunt, sibling, friend etc it might not be so obvious so it would be best practise to show transparency to contact the person just to check they are happy that the school have their details. I personally think the risk is pretty minimal though

[Seb1780]

Not particularly answering your question, but I aim interested are you providing a copy of the data you currently hold with the data collection form or have you just created a blank proforma? Two reasons I ask really, how is the information getting to parents is it getting posted or is it going via pupil post? Also, if using the blank proforma method, how easy is it to make a mistake when trying to read someone's hand writing i.e. e-mail address is it a O or 0 and information ends up being sent to the wrong address. I am stuck in two minds what is going to be the best way to do it.

 

In the past we've always used a pre-populated form and asked for amendments. Included in this has been address / phone / email details for all contacts of a child. It has occurred to us that where the contacts do not share the address of the child then they may not be privy (or entitled) to some of the information on the form (e.g. mum's mobile number) and vice versa. Currently we are planning to send blank forms in future, but may change this to seperate pre-populated forms in the future (using just the child's name for anyone not living at the same address). This may be proceeded by a clearout of contacts to limit them to a maximum of two; we've found in the past that people have added "contacts" just to fill in the boxes on the form

[enjay]

 

We duplicate and manually redact the contact sheet in those instances, but a smarter way would be nice. Sadly, I don't think SIMS is even vaguely near being able to do two data collection sheets for separated contacts but one for co-habiting contacts; I wouldn't want to do two sheets for a child who lives with both parents because mum then wouldn't be able to check dad's number.

[Seb1780]

Sadly, I don't think SIMS is even vaguely near being able to do two data collection sheets for separated contacts but one for co-habiting contacts

 

Nor do I, that's why it'll be a report run to export relevent data into something else which would then mail merge based on some kind of "shared address" flag.

[enjay]

Nor do I, that's why it'll be a report run to export relevent data into something else which would then mail merge based on some kind of "shared address" flag.

 

There is a shared address flag in SIMS (the little house icon by the contact) - not sure if it can extracted in a report or not. Make sure you click the "validate address" button each time you enter addresses, otherwise you run the risk of entering the same address in two different ways and SIMS therefore thinking the contacts don't live together.

[jmak]

We're trying a face to face update this time to try and fill in the gaps. Office staff are attending parents evening and will have a print out from SIMS of the contact and medical emergency information. We'll then ask the parent(s) to confirm all details. We're particularly looking to ensure we have three valid emergency contacts after seeing this story in the news:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/education-42861015/children-left-with-their-father-s-dead-body

 

After our "non-snow-day" notifications we had a steady trickle of "I forgot to tell you I'd changed my number calls".

[Seb1780]

There is a shared address flag in SIMS (the little house icon by the contact) - not sure if it can extracted in a report or not. Make sure you click the "validate address" button each time you enter addresses, otherwise you run the risk of entering the same address in two different ways and SIMS therefore thinking the contacts don't live together.

 

There is a "Lives with Pupil" field that can be reported.

 

We're pretty good at data entry here but I expect there will be a few false negatives; at least they will fail with different address and hence two forms rather than failing with the same address

[enjay]

There is a "Lives with Pupil" field that can be reported.

 

That's a start. The next step is to do something different, i.e. print a second data collection sheet which doesn't contain the other contact's details, when that box is unticked. In the absence of that, the "lives with pupil" field could be displayed on the data collection sheet and manual intervention could make the necessary edits before printing.

 

We're pretty good at data entry here but I expect there will be a few false negatives; at least they will fail with different address and hence two forms rather than failing with the same address

 

Agreed.

[gh5000]

Hang on, presumably that also applies to dad if mum filled in the form, in which case we need identifiable consent from both parents not just a form signed by one of them.

 

I get that there's a transparency argument here but surely the dad's details are covered under lawful processing - you are required by law to keep an admissions register with parent's details. It's not covered by consent.

 

But arguing with myself I would say that you should be getting consent for mum and dads address if you're going to send them fundraising/marketing/buy a ticket for this concert letter as that isn't part of the official duty of providing an education.

[jmak]

I've just had advice from our DPO saying that we need to get consent from third contacts to hold their data. My view is that under the fourth basis for processing data we don't.

 

4 Processing is necessary to protect the vital interests of a data subject or another person[/Quote]

 

(The person whose vital interests are being protected is the child.)

 

The suggestion in this thread is that we need to inform the third contact (which I am happy with in principle, but I know it won't make our admin staff happy when I tell them they need to contact 350 people - we decided that we didn't need email addresses for people who would only be contacted in an emergency and therefore had no legal basis to hold them). This leaves me with two questions:

 

1) Has anyone else had similar or conflicting advice from their DPO or the ICO? (I'm planning to argue with our DPO, but I'd like something other than my unqualified opinion!)

2) If we don't need consent, what are we supposed to do if the data subject objects? We're not asking for their permission....

 

Thanks

Edited July 6, 2018 by jmak

[enjay]

Our current plan (pending DPO approval) is the data collection will tell the parent to inform the neighbour/childminder/granny we have their phone number. As you say, under the child's vital interests, I don't think consent is needed.

[jmak]

It's the DPO approval that's the issue for us. Ours has said consent required. I disagree, but still not sure what to do about notification to the data subject.

[enjay]

It's the DPO approval that's the issue for us. Ours has said consent required.

 

What's your agreement with your DPO / SLT's view of them? Is their word law or are they making recommendations? If you discuss your concerns, including the logistics of proving you have consent from someone for whom you only have a phone number, would they consider revising their advice?

[Edutech98]

My opinion is that if it is the parents contact details (or legal guardians) then you don't need consent. It is processed under public service - the school needs some method of contact with parents/guardians.

 

You wouldn't use consent for the parents because that would leave the school in a position where the parent could refuse to supply the details and that would be a safeguarding issue. You couldn't use consent and then refuse to delete the parents details.

 

As you go from parents towards 3rd/4th person contacts (i.e neighbour, siblings, friends etc) - I think its then that you would go into the territory of consent. If for example my neighbour had me down as their child's 4th emergency contact - I would expect to be able to consent and remove the consent at any time without objection from the school.

 

Edit - as a slight edit public sectors such as public schools should try not to use consent anyway as per ICO guidance because of the in-balance in power between the data subject and the school. If there is another available lawful bases that you can use then you should always try and use that over consent. The inbalance in power wouldn't be as much with 3rd/4th contacts because the school will not likely have an power over them because it is not their child.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Edutech98