Taking that decision....... 7 to 10

[simpsonj]

Seems to me that a good bet is to get a LTSB image sorted, and use that to test your hardware and software compatibility, Group Policy, Profiles, and any other bits. Once that's in place, and you're happy, you can then take the knowledge learned from the LTSB testing to build an image using the latest version of Windows 10...

[simpsonj]

We did the opposite and started with LTSB (1511), discovered how broken the start menu layout was (randomly going to a plain black screen, fix being to delete the local profile), and had to go through Enterprise 1607 then 1703 to finally get an almost-reliable user experience (except for the fact GPP printer mapping has been awful all the way through, LTSB and Enterprise)

 

Or maybe my idea isn't such a good one then!

[Sheridan]

Did you try LTSB?

 

We did, and felt that at least proceeding with Edu would help with bug fixes in the future! The problems we're seeing seem to be update break a lot more than they used to, so a previously working build develops new problems.

[mavhc]

Good. As a supporter of MS and an MIEE I'm glad to see it being used in schools. Out of interest, are you primary or seconday? How many machines do you support in your organisation?

Both, about 120.

 

LOL - in Wales we have a curriculum that was designed in 2008 - but at least we do not print and glue. Also - there is nothing wrong with Word and PowerPoint - they are still real world and relevant skills. The push to computer science in the curriculum is having a negative effect on the skills the pupils have and can demonstrate. There is also an issue with an 'ipad generation' of pupils and whilst these devices are brilliant, pupils are arriving at secondary schools with none of the skills they used to have (cut and paste, saving, folder creation, renaming) etc. Although I've yet to see someone swipe a monitor to turn the volume up - but I'm sure it will come. So 1997 skills are still relevant and need to be taught.

 

Of course, but they have other skills to build on, mostly photography I guess. The average 11 year old will have taken more photos than the average 60 year old. While I teach people how to create folders and where to save files, I don't actually do that myself much, "search don't sort"

 

I do have to remind people to save when using less stable programs like video editors, 3d modelling etc, but the new Photos video editor auto saves.

 

I'm sorry but if you are relying on your technology to inspire then something is wrong. Yes it can help - but don't rely on it. I'm sure I inspire the pupils I teach just as well with Windows 7 as I would/could with Windows 10. Does Windows 10 really help learning when compared to Window 7? Is that what you are saying? Show me a comparison table that outlines the educational benefits of 10 over 7 in classroom. Preparing for the future - does it really? We're preparing pupils for jobs that do not exist yet and to use technologies/OSes that are not yet out there (to paraphrase and steal a quote from somewhere).

Technology is inspiring "I can talk to anyone in the world" "I can fly around the Earth in 3d" etc

 

It's not really about the OS version, more about people who go "we'll make the new thing as much like the old thing as possible"

 

Everyone will be using Windows 10 soon, so you'll have to switch, why not also switch to automating everything instead of doing things by hand over and over like someone who can't use a computer? Find 4 bugs every 6 months instead of 400 every 6 years

 

Are we really preparing people for the future when we're not embracing the future ourselves? Who knows what they'll need to know. A lot more about photography/video/programming/web design and a lot less about spelling/joined up handwriting/driving a (manual) car/paper based DTP.

 

Way more about spreadsheets and databases and writing scripts to automate things, way less about anything you can learn by watching a youtube video.

 

Isn't OneNote free for all Windows versions? If so then moving to 10 doesn't make a difference. Most schools will have Office 2013/2016 anyway so OneNote is part of that.

No, more likely to be available at home/phone though now it is.

We block command line access - doesn't stop me teaching python to Year 7 8 and 9 and VB to Years 10-13 for their GCSE/A Level courses. Why would you think I need the command line?

Every programmer uses the command line, need to know it, plus it teaches you more how computers work. Why not teach Python to the older pupils too? Much better than VB and actually used in the real world.

Do you teach (asking out of interest). I often find myself in a funny situation on here as being a teacher and a technical person as well.

Gareth

Yes, GCSE CS mostly, some younger pupils with code.org and code kingdoms too.

[ColinP]

I have toyed with the idea of 10, i am a single IT person so i dont get much free time to build images but i finaly have one im happy to deploy with all the bloat removed... but its already out of date i should have gone for LTSB

[garethEds]

Both, about 120.

 

Ok.

Of course, but they have other skills to build on, mostly photography I guess. The average 11 year old will have taken more photos than the average 60 year old. While I teach people how to create folders and where to save files, I don't actually do that myself much, "search don't sort"

 

Sorry - but photography skills will not cut it in an office environment. I'm sure Mr HR in a bank doesn't really care that the 'average 11 year old will have taken more photos than the average 60 year old' - do you have a source for this fact?

I do have to remind people to save when using less stable programs like video editors, 3d modelling etc, but the new Photos video editor auto saves.

 

Ok.

Technology is inspiring "I can talk to anyone in the world" "I can fly around the Earth in 3d" etc

 

Of course it is - nobody doubts that, but in this thread we are talking about making the jump on a network from Windows 7 (which is extremely stable) to Windows 10 (which people are having issues with). Nobody is doubting that technology is or isn't inspiring.

It's not really about the OS version, more about people who go "we'll make the new thing as much like the old thing as possible"

 

Agree about your first sentence - but it's you who is seemingly judging people who are not making the jump to 10. Nobody is saying "we'll make the new thing as much like the old thing as possible" - have I missed that quote?

Everyone will be using Windows 10 soon, so you'll have to switch, why not also switch to automating everything instead of doing things by hand over and over like someone who can't use a computer? Find 4 bugs every 6 months instead of 400 every 6 years

 

Will they? Where is your source for that? I will not 'have to' switch at all whilst Windows 7 is being supported. People develop their own routines so assuming doing it their way is "like someone who can't use a computer' is once again a bit rude. I don't have time to fix things every 4 months. 1 image a year is fine for us and works in the timescales I have.

Are we really preparing people for the future when we're not embracing the future ourselves? Who knows what they'll need to know. A lot more about photography/video/programming/web design and a lot less about spelling/joined up handwriting/driving a (manual) car/paper based DTP.

 

There is a difference in location and situation here. I'm sure we fully embrace the future but in school we do not always need to do that when it comes to running a network. And if you think that spelling and joined up writing will not longer be important then that is a shame and will produce some pretty dull kids. Let's depend on the spell checker!!! Real shame.

No, more likely to be available at home/phone though now it is.

 

Sorry - but you can download OneNote for free from onenote.com - I'll check again later.

Every programmer uses the command line, need to know it, plus it teaches you more how computers work. Why not teach Python to the older pupils too? Much better than VB and actually used in the real world.

 

Do they? Again I ask for your research and sources. As for Python in older years - I could I suppose but it came afterwards.

 

As you talk about the 'real world' - how many organisations, companies, banks etc etc have upgraded to Windows 10?

Yes, GCSE CS mostly, some younger pupils with code.org and code kingdoms too.

 

Good. I am glad.

 

Gareth

[mavhc]

See my other thread: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows-10/190663-1709-business-normal.html

 

Although I can add a few more things I simply rolled back and will prepare a new image with the next build

 

I guess that's another advantage of working with the original wim, you can just remove half the gpos until it works, binary search like.

 

This is what I do if it fails.

 

a) test without any gpos, if it's all broken anyway wait until there's a fix

b) add my weird login stuff, scripts/redirected stuff/roaming profiles/printer gpp

c) add gpos to lock things down

d) add gpos to install software

 

My general point is: Don't create an image, create a system to setup a computer, then updating to a new wim is a 30 min test, and easy to debug.

 

Also don't do too much weird stuff, roaming profiles, hacking in old start menu clones etc

 

Always evaluate the way you do things, if you do it 3 times it's worth looking for a way to automate it.

 

Microsoft's suggestions for installing Win 10 yourself are even more radical: Don't, sell all your servers, get intune and azure ad.

 

But they're even crazier than me.

[garethEds]

My general point is: Don't create an image, create a system to setup a computer, then updating to a new wim is a 30 min test, and easy to debug.

 

This clearly works for you and I'm interested in what you do. Do you not install software into an image to save time when deploying? What do you mean by 'Create a system to setup a computer'? As far as I am aware, the time I put in once a year to create my image is indeed that. I create a system to setup a computer. Computer is built/imaged/deployed and ready to go. Are you telling me the hunders if not thousands of Edugeekers on here that create images are wrong to do so? It's coming across like that - but maybe that's my perception based on your tone.

Also don't do too much weird stuff, roaming profiles, hacking in old start menu clones etc

 

Weird stuff? That's a bit vague,

Always evaluate the way you do things, if you do it 3 times it's worth looking for a way to automate it.

 

Why 3 times?

:-)

 

Based on this thread, I think sticking with Windows 7 is best for me at the moment until such a time as I can get the gap to look into 10. Teaching 50 out of 60 lessons takes up a lot of the time for me.

 

Gareth

[KK20]

Windows 10 is quite picky when it comes to certain things. roaming profiles can cause a headache - each version of windows 10 needs profiles resetting. The "new" roaming profiles need to be created from a new master profile. copyprofile is fussy, very fussy. Start menu customisation is hit and miss for most people. I am convinced this is tied to the quality of your profile as we have never had an issue with start menu's when others have had nightmares - our default profile is the default profile given (no changes), I use GPO to lock/change/default everything.

 

LTSB is not without its issues. It doesn't have EDGE, this could be a good or bad thing. It doesn't many of the normal apps you would expect windows to have. you are also only getting security fixes - this means no feature pack, no minor bug fixes either. The edition is set in stone. Everything else you install and maintain yourself. Again, this could be good but can also be bad. There is no store, we use minecraft education (store only) so no LTSB for us. Other people use various calculators, paint, etc packages.

 

However, as you say 1607, 1703 and 1709 will be obsolete before W7 ....

[garethEds]

OKay - thanks @KK20 .

 

SO based on everything here am I better working with a Version of 10 (such as 1607 or 1703) that has been 'played with' by many on here and working with that, or should I be looking to work with 1709 and all it's own issues.

@mavhc - If you are letting your Windows 10 installation upgrade itself through the version numbers - does this mean you are resetting your profiles each time as suggested by @KK20 in his post?

 

Gareth

[mavhc]

> Sorry - but photography skills will not cut it in an office environment. I'm sure Mr HR in a bank doesn't really care that the 'average 11 year old will have taken more photos than the average 60 year old' - do you have a source for this fact?

 

Nope, just a guess based on digital vs film. What jobs are there in a bank, programmers, people who make the websites, the people who run

, call centre people, and a few people at branches that haven't closed yet. The website has loads of photos on. A few on twitter, that's more graphic design though.

 

> Agree about your first sentence - but it's you who is seemingly judging people who are not making the jump to 10. Nobody is saying "we'll make the new thing as much like the old thing as possible" - have I missed that quote?

 

Everyone suggesting LTSB, which has no apps. While most of the apps aren't useful for schools, quite a lot are, and it's obviously where Microsoft is putting their future features.

 

> Will they? Where is your source for that? I will not 'have to' switch at all whilst Windows 7 is being supported. People develop their own routines so assuming doing it their way is "like someone who can't use a computer' is once again a bit rude. I don't have time to fix things every 4 months. 1 image a year is fine for us and works in the timescales I have.

 

Well, Win 7 EOL in 2 years, so for most pupils, they won't be using Win 7 at work. My point is it's easier to fix a couple of small problems every 6 months instead of planning a massive upgrade every 6 years. And also not to make an image.

 

> There is a difference in location and situation here. I'm sure we fully embrace the future but in school we do not always need to do that when it comes to running a network. And if you think that spelling and joined up writing will not longer be important then that is a shame and will produce some pretty dull kids. Let's depend on the spell checker!!! Real shame.

 

Well, joined up handwriting won't make any difference. Spellcheck means I can use more complex words and not look silly, plus quick lookup on the definitions if I'm not sure.

 

> Sorry - but you can download OneNote for free from onenote.com - I'll check again later.

 

Cool, didn't know that, easier if already installed though.

 

> Do they? Again I ask for your research and sources. As for Python in older years - I could I suppose but it came afterwards.

 

Everyone I've ever worked with when doing programmer jobs uses the command line. It's a great skill to learn, just today I did this:

for /d %a in (pupils\*) do if not exist "%a\Assessments\AET PF.xlsm" copy "Assessment\AET PF.xlsm" "%a\Assessments"

 

> As you talk about the 'real world' - how many organisations, companies, banks etc etc have upgraded to Windows 10?

 

From July: According to Spiceworks, as of the end of July, 60 percent of global organisations were using Windows 10, which launched almost two years ago. This is perhaps not as impressive a statistic as it sounds because Spiceworks includes any company that has one or more PCs running Windows 10, although Spiceworks said that 60 percent adoption rate put Windows 10 ahead of XP, Windows 8, and Windows Vista. And it suggests that the majority of businesses are at least testing Windows 10, ahead of further deployment.

 

As we're teaching young people we should be ahead of the curve, need to be teaching them what they'll need in 5 years. How many lessons on CVs (save as pdf before emailing) vs LinkedIn do we teach? Heh, just found this https://www.allaboutschoolleavers.co.uk/articles/article/284/how-to-build-an-effective-linkedin-cv

 

The only problems I've had are Impero vs FontDriver, Pro vs Enterprise removing a load of gpos (regedit script fixed that), wrangling apps into submission (again easier with Enterprise), and a few cases of slow logons or black screens of death, and 9 year old machines needing an old version of java to work with minecraft and their terrible graphics drivers. If you steer clear of doing weird stuff it's pretty stable, esp now it's 2 years later.

 

If I were running an IT technician department I'd make sure everyone I employ could pass the GCSE CS exam, or would be willing to learn it and take it.

[mavhc]

This clearly works for you and I'm interested in what you do. Do you not install software into an image to save time when deploying? What do you mean by 'Create a system to setup a computer'? As far as I am aware, the time I put in once a year to create my image is indeed that. I create a system to setup a computer. Computer is built/imaged/deployed and ready to go. Are you telling me the hunders if not thousands of Edugeekers on here that create images are wrong to do so? It's coming across like that - but maybe that's my perception based on your tone.

That is what I'm saying, but also what Microsoft are saying, to an even greater extreme. It's what I used to do too.

 

You could still script the creation of your image, if you really wanted to. A few scripts of silent install commands, regfixes etc. Would be a compromise.

 

Basically make a system so that updating your base OS only takes an hour or 2, then you can do it more often, and spend less time clicking Next on installers.

 

Weird stuff? That's a bit vague,

Stuff that Microsoft doesn't approve of, and is thus likely to break, Start Menu replacements, Roaming Profiles etc

 

 

> Why 3 times?

 

2nd time might be a coincidence

 

 

> Based on this thread, I think sticking with Windows 7 is best for me at the moment until such a time as I can get the gap to look into 10. Teaching 50 out of 60 lessons takes up a lot of the time for me.

 

Probably. What I'd do is fix 1 or more applications a week to install via GPO etc. Then by next year you'll have hardly anything to put into an image.

 

Roaming Profiles seem to be pretty much dead, https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/ue-v/uev-for-windows is the new thing

[ADMaster]

Wow interesting thread so far, It sounds like you have made up your mind, but I’ll throw in my thoughts.

To answer some of the questions asked of the other posters, no I don’t teach and Ilook after about 600-700 Windows Pcs. The majority of our student devices are now chromeOS.

 

 

When I made the jump from 7 to 8.1 I told folks there isn’t one feature that jumps out and says that is the reason to upgrade, but a lot of little things that add up. Also several changes “under the hood” that make the system run better.

 

 

I did try LTSB briefly, the 1511 version and decided on the CB/CBB instead. Mostly the lack of apps / new security features, like calculator notes and such. I also wanted to leave the option for apps in the future. In hind sight with what we use LTSB would be fine. However I also like to have the latest security features that you will not get with LTSB.

 

 

One of those minor features that was part of the reason to upgrade is connections on the log in screen. In W7 a frequent call was no log on servers, now with W8/10 they can ensure connection before attempting the log in.

 

 

Granted, the OS of the future isn’t here yet, but I believe in providing the latest stable system I can. It is very unlikely that folks have W7 at home. W8 was release in 2009, so that is an old home PC to still be running W7 or prior. Providing the latest helps to keep things familiar between home / school. This in turn should improve productivity / T&L. Now in the days of more mobile devices then PCs that’s not much of an argument, but was / is my thought process.

 

To the question of how to manage it all, yes put in a system to build computers, not the traditional golden image. When I moved to W8 I must have spent a month or two off and on tweaking and testing. Then W10 another month. I don't recall my tweak / test time on XP to 7, but a good month I’m sure.

 

 

The latest 1703 to 1709 I spent a day or two. That includes deploying to test machines and doing the other regular jobs.

 

 

Weather it is SCCM /MDT or something else the basic process is;

Find a way to script every tweak you want to make, several examples on here and Garry town blog.

Drop the wim into a task sequence and apply all the tweaks.

 

 

In place upgrades via WSUS will break a lot of those customizations. There is an upgrade task sequence in SCCM that will allow you to run these tweaks again during the upgrade.

 

 

I have had fairly good success with the upgrade task sequences for staff, the student PCs just get a full reimage over the summer.

 

 

I recently made my 1709 upgrade sequences available to staff and had two folks jump on it and upgrade that day. They have not reported any issues.

 

 

When you decide to make the move plenty of help is available here on edugeek.

[free780]

I think the 'Golden Image' is dead. I say no to LTSB as I want students and staff to have Onedrive on demand sync. Windows 10 is far from perfect but is much more secure than Windows 7. I would actually be happy with a monthly image creation as long as it's automated. The Waas model means you have 18 months of support so you need to be careful which versions you skip. You always seem to get a few 1511 or 1703 around. So it will always be messy and a process not a project. You never finish and everything is always updating. Embrace the constant change.

[sparkeh]

Interesting debate. It seems to be clear that those advocating LTSB still want to follow the old model and those going with CB or CBB are embracing the new methodology.

 

However, LTSB isn’t really the old method, from my point of view it’s a worse position to be in. I went with CB for a number of reasons including:

 

* new security features (providing a secure environment is part of our remit)

* there are bug fixes that will make in into current branch but not LTSB

* latest hardware being supported (I don’t really want to be In a position where my choice of os means it isn’t supported on a device)

*lack of apps that people already use

 

Personally I don’t find the upgrades that onerous. As above, it’s about changing your processes. Dropping a new wim into your deployment and testing is straight forward if you have a system in place. I think if you try and manage win 10using the old mindset you might struggle, but adapt your method and you won’t.

[garethEds]

I've never really had time to script everything into the MDT deployment. Something to think of. A lot of our stuff goes out via GPO but the ones that go into the image should be easy enough if they have silent installers.

 

What do you do with things that do not have silent installers?

 

Am I thinking of this correctly?

 

Gareth

[free780]

Sounds like you need SCCM.

Ideally everything should silently install. If not you can re package as an msi but it can get messy if you capture the wrong files/reg keys.

[garethEds]

Sounds like you need SCCM.

Ideally everything should silently install. If not you can re package as an msi but it can get messy if you capture the wrong files/reg keys.

 

Ahhh yes - the holly grail. We've been asking the LEA for years if we could have it on our network to control our part of the LEA wide AD. We've been told no and no. Now they are doing it themselves. Not sure how it is going to work. Nobody is speaking telling us owt.

 

Gareth

[3s-gtech]

Fun idea - deploy Windows 8.1. It's absolutely rock-solid stable, easy to manage, and has extended support for another five and a half years yet. I've fully removed it from my network now (still got a few legacy 7 devices) but it very rarely gave me issues... Edited November 23, 2017 by 3s-gtech

[free780]

Windows 10 SAC why delay the invertible?

[caffrey]

Do any of us actually have time to embrace the constant changes ? I barely have time to keep up with everything as it is....

[mavhc]

I used WiX to create some installers, eg Numbershark and Wordshark - Wiki

 

90% of things either run from the network/are just file copies, or have msi's

[KK20]

There isn't a one size fits all. Hence my original ask 10 people and get 10 answers. For example, Our school has 1 IT manager (me) and no technicians and we have 280 PCs so I need to have it as smooth as possible. I have automated all I can but there are still some applications that do not play nicely with GPO installations (yes non-VL Adobe CS i'm looking at you). We have multiple science based software that again isn't GPO friendly (even down to batch file silent install etc). This means I cannot go the "GPO will install everything based on the OU the computer is sat in". However, to make a golden sample with everything I need takes 2 hours at the most, there are 27 individual steps I take. Uploading to the FOG server takes another 20 mins and each client is at the domain logon in under half an hour. CB is not to hard to maintain in such circumstances. Last time I ran WSUS 1607 -> 1703 it took about 4 hours to complete per PC and things didn't work 100% with each client. Running my FOG method worked every time without fail - I merely needed to manually install the odd device on PCs (such as overhead cameras, SWANN CCTV, individual scanners etc) these all had single user licenses so I couldn't script nor implement on the image due to licensing restrictions.

 

However. There are always the finance PCs with Sage, bespoke banking software, smart cards with certificates, the HR/DBS ladies PC with no network storage and VEEAM windows free agent backing up locally etc. These are on 2016 LTSB as I most certainly do not want these being "upgraded" every two years. We have weather station PCs and digital signs, again these are LTSB. We even have offline exam laptops - these will remain windows 7 until they die (networks disabled, sanitised exam USB pens etc). Don't worry though, you can WMI filter LTSB too! That is great for start menus as LTSB wont have all those shiny Edge and Paint3D installations (SELECT OperatingSystemSKU FROM Win32_OperatingSystem WHERE OperatingSystemSKU = 125 is LTSB, 79 is education)

 

UE-V is great in principle but becomes quite tiresome when you need to monitor many different templates. It is only as good as the templates you maintain. Roaming profiles have just worked for us *providing* you don't screw up copyprofile AND start a new set of profiles when you go to a new build. don't ask about roaming between 2016 LTSB (essentially 1607 without bug fixes) and 1709. You get the same issues - broken start menus, printers going missing, edge freaking out. However, create a 1709 profile and roam to 1607 and all is still good. Okaaaaay.

 

Good luck with whatever you do. And yes, going to 8.1 looks quite viable...

Edited November 23, 2017 by KK20

[mavhc]

Digital Signage and Weather stations are excellent LTSB cases. That's what it's designed for. Not sure about office PCs as MSOffice isn't supported on LTSB.

 

4 hours is ages, HDD?

 

Seems like each update there's fewer cases of the update failing, which is good.

 

What's the reason the HR computers don't use network storage?

 

If it were me I'd let those not standard computers upgrade overnight, then if they fail restore backups.

 

27 steps isn't bad, about right for a checklist.

 

Why FOG rather than WDS/MDT?

[KK20]

Nope SSD, PCs are old, SSDs were an interim fix until funds available. FOG over WDS/MDT because it works without any intervention from me (all our PCs are pxe boot). The domain join and rename works well (I am aware of OSDComputerName ) and it means I can "golden image" all our "cannot script, batch or MSI install software" can be pre setup. MDT thrashed the network and storage producing unreliable GPO installations - there is a limit to GPO software installation instances and we have found that for a given room of 30 with a pure GPO installation post image you will not get identical machines off the bat. FOG can multicast an entire room or floor and each machine is identical after boot (some rooms DO have additional GPO software installation but these are generally not critical to running and can survive installing "the next day")

 

I would need citation on MSOffice 2013 (we do not use O365) not being supported in LTSB as I couldn't find anything when I rolled out LTSB regarding unsupported configurations. At the time I did see that Surface devices were not support and that MS suggested "use cases" but did not say "not supported", of course you have no store or EDGE. We do not have SCCM so LTSB lack of SCCM compatibility does not impact us. WSUS has successfully patched Office 2013 on LTSB the same as 1607 CB. LTSB is pretty much the same as Windows 7 functionality-wise. I do not have the time to sit down with a dozen machines every 6 months, upgrade overnight, test each piece of software for compatibility on those machines and restore back if necessary - thus we use LTSB on specific office PCs and CB on the "mob". HR do not use network storage because the compliance officer says not to. I put forward the case of NTFS permissions on network storage, they decided local with single user access, local backup and that was the end of discussion for my part. The concern was that an admin (me+SMT) can take the backup from the server, restore it elsewhere and utilise the data accordingly, this was mitigated by restricting the access to the room by both key and lack of Remote/RDP/management tools being installed on the HR system. Incidentally, the HR/DBS machine has a machine certificate from Capita, it needs to be generated for the machine and we are charged for it; upgrades to OS and major hardware changes knock this certificate out. The exams officer PC has some software that does the same (some sort of foreign exams board software, not A2C that one is easier to setup) - instant LTSB decision.

 

Each update does bring a fresh set of issues though. 1709 initial testing brought about the worst case of profileitis we had seen. This was fixed with a few tweaks but that was still 1 days worth of time wasted. This would not have been an issue with our LTSB. Roaming profiles is still a supported mechanism within windows, for right-or-wrong UE-V is not the be all and end all. UE-V does not transfer all settings and storage within a profile. Sure, you can redirect APPDATA separately and hope all your applications play ball (yes Sibelius, im looking at you!) but there are quite a few apps that wont work properly with UE-V (yes adobe non volume CS i'm looking at you!) properly. Some software needs to be installed and licensed individually but does allow the copying of individual license files - these can only be installed on a golden sample then the license file copied afterwards via script. I am quite aware that this is not the fault of MS yet I still need a solution to these issues and the sysprep/golden sample solution works well for us. Incidentally, our businessplan for "lack of edge" on LTSB is "install chrome"; Look at the GPOs for Chrome, and look at the GPOs for Edge (even in 1709) and weep. I know Edge takes quite a few cues from IE11 but it is a pale comparison. For crying out loud, we only recently got Favourites sync (we made a business decision before 1703).

 

I am yet to find anyone that has installed windows 10 and successfully upgraded each time without changing their GPOs each time (im not talking about additional features, merely existing working environment). In fact it has been the complete opposite, each patch has brought additional "features" that have needed removing, patching or hacking about. Unless you have a base of 1703, you will still need to remove and disable provisioned apps after an upgrade. Even future upgrades will bring extra items that need removing (people bar springs to mind for one). This is extra time that I can nil afford.

 

I'll keep saying this to everyone who tells someone to "do it this way". No, everyone has a reason for setting things up the way they do, each person has their own network with their own pressures and their own set of circumstances. Once thing for certain, if I was setting up a network from scratch then I'd go Linux but that is another story. (we have a small 3 computer Linux "lab" for 6th form ICT, it is viable on an AD network....) Not everyone has an identical setup, nor the man-power to keep a continual upgrade system running. Remember, once you go CB then you are on (at a minimum) a 2 year decreasing upgrade/test plan (you do get the 60 day grace period after-all).

Edited November 24, 2017 by KK20