Administrator Access

[Guest itnewbie]

Actually, I think my notice would have to go in under those circumstances.

 

 

I don't think I'll go that far! It seems like an odd policy but at the end of the day, teachers are in charge, and we as support staff, are here to take time consuming tasks off their hands, so they can get on with teaching.

 

If they want ot be bothered everytime I need logging on to a server then I suppose it's their problem!

[elsiegee40]

I don't think I'll go that far! It seems like an odd policy but at the end of the day, teachers are in charge, and we as support staff, are here to take time consuming tasks off their hands, so they can get on with teaching.

 

If they want ot be bothered everytime I need logging on to a server then I suppose it's their problem!

 

My response was to M25man - with what happened to him, I'd just walk. Either you're employed to run the network or you aren't.

 

In your case, I'd be arguing strongly that SMT are wrong. They DO NOT need Admin rights to see what everyone is doing. Permissions can be set for this task which do not put the rest of the network at risk.

[Guest itnewbie]

Is it also possible to set permissions so they can install software on the workstations? If they have a new package, they sometimes need to install it themselves so it can be used in their lessons. Can this be done without compromising network security?

[Diello]

I don't think I'll go that far! It seems like an odd policy but at the end of the day, teachers are in charge, and we as support staff, are here to take time consuming tasks off their hands, so they can get on with teaching.

 

If they want ot be bothered everytime I need logging on to a server then I suppose it's their problem!

 

1) It's non an "odd policy" - It's an insane policy, they have control above what they should have, and you're actively being stopped from effectively doing your job.

 

2) No, Teachers are NOT in charge - the Head Teacher is. Unless you're a Teaching Assistant, the teachers have no more right or control over you than a teacher does over another teacher. The exception is if the Head of ICT happens to be your Line Manager, even then, admin rights shouldn't necessarily be given.

 

3) IT Services is nothing to do with "taking time consuming tasks off their hand" - Again, that's a TA's job. Your job is to do things they CAN'T do because they don't have the skills/knowledge.

 

Is it also possible to set permissions so they can install software on the workstations? If they have a new package, they sometimes need to install it themselves so it can be used in their lessons. Can this be done without compromising network security?

 

If you give them local admin rights to every workstation, then yes.

 

HOWEVER - They should in no way, shape, or form, be doing this!! Apart from network security, you have the issue of legal obligations to software licensing, even for IT professionals, this is a minefield (you can earn decent money simply being a licensing expert!), teachers will have no clue. They DO NOT need to be installing it themselves. That is the job of IT services when the appropriate procedures have been followed to purchase the software, and you have been given it in enough time to effectively implement it. O, and under Union regulations, they're not supposed to be doing that anyway!

 

The state of play in your school is almost beyond belief - It's not April 1st is it?

 

Not only is the set up wholly inappropriate, it's breaking policies and guidelines left right and centre. It's literally insane. Your school needs to seriously be audited.

 

You also need to stop thinking of yourself as a teachers servant.

[elsiegee40]

@Diello - and so say all of us!

[jcollings]

@Diello - totally agree with most of what you say. Have to defend TA's and say they are not there to "take time consuming tasks off teachers" - they are professionals in their own right (mainly!) and their job is to support teaching and learning.

 

However that's going off topic a bit.

 

@itnewbie - Teachers shouldn't be installing software at all - it should come via the IT department - no ifs no buts! Not sure what you've been employed as but if it's IT/Network manager or IT tech you are there to run the IT - you are probably the one with the skills and knowledge to do that. The situation really is beyond belief. I have to say I'd not cope with it and leave ASAP but then I'm very used to managing my own show. I'm lucky - the head is my line manager and he leaves me to my own devices. Pretty much I get full support for things I do.

[Guest itnewbie]

Teachers are NOT in charge - the Head Teacher is. Unless you're a Teaching Assistant, the teachers have no more right or control over you than a teacher does over another teacher. The exception is if the Head of ICT happens to be your Line Manager, even then, admin rights shouldn't necessarily be given.

 

Your advice on the admin rights issue has been very helpful, and I will pass this on to my line manager when the time feels right.

 

I do however have to disagree on the question of who is in charge. Teachers are (unfortunately) above support staff. They are the ones who make the decisions, and we are here to assist. At the end of the day, if they say no to giving me admin rights, I have to accept it and move on.

[PEO]

Your advice on the admin rights issue has been very helpful, and I will pass this on to my line manager when the time feels right.

 

I do however have to disagree on the question of who is in charge. Teachers are (unfortunately) above support staff. They are the ones who make the decisions, and we are here to assist. At the end of the day, if they say no to giving me admin rights, I have to accept it and move on.

 

Teacher

[strawberry]

Your advice on the admin rights issue has been very helpful, and I will pass this on to my line manager when the time feels right.

 

I do however have to disagree on the question of who is in charge. Teachers are (unfortunately) above support staff. They are the ones who make the decisions, and we are here to assist. At the end of the day, if they say no to giving me admin rights, I have to accept it and move on.

 

move on... thats probably the best thing, move onwards and upwards to a school that actually has a clue whats its doing it wise and respects it's support staff.

[Diello]

Your advice on the admin rights issue has been very helpful, and I will pass this on to my line manager when the time feels right.

 

I do however have to disagree on the question of who is in charge. Teachers are (unfortunately) above support staff. They are the ones who make the decisions, and we are here to assist. At the end of the day, if they say no to giving me admin rights, I have to accept it and move on.

 

It's not a question of disagreement, it's a matter of fact. Teachers ARE NOT above associate staff, support staff, call them what you will. It's just simply not the case. A percentage of teachers may like to believe they are, but they have absolutely no power over you. Unless it explicitly says in your contract that you are managed by the teachers, you're not. You have equal status as a normal teacher, no teacher is "above" support staff unless they are a member of the SLT.

 

"This is my first job in a school." - you obviously have a helpful attitude, and you will go far. However, whoever has told you that you're "below" teachers has been lying to you. If you want to survive and have a happy career, I suggest you realise this very quickly and stand your ground. As I said before, you're not a teachers servant.

[Domino]

but at the end of the day, teachers are in charge,

 

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Lithium]

It might explain a lot of things if they were in charge though

 

And they can take the blame too

 

They want to do less marking etc so they can install more software?

[jcollings]

Your advice on the admin rights issue has been very helpful, and I will pass this on to my line manager when the time feels right.

 

I do however have to disagree on the question of who is in charge. Teachers are (unfortunately) above support staff. They are the ones who make the decisions, and we are here to assist. At the end of the day, if they say no to giving me admin rights, I have to accept it and move on.

 

 

No they are not! Plain and simple - you may have a line manager who is a teacher but that does not mean all teachers are above you - that is not how it works. Please, for your own sanity, stop thinking of it like that. The structure is not Head - Dep Head - Teachers - Support staff. Of course you need to support them but they are not your boss!

[witch]

Please, ITNewbie, do think about if you can actually do your job without admin rights: i certainly couldn't as I spend most of the time sorting out problems with passwords, skewed profiles, corrupt software, installation of software etc. So is it really sensible that the person employed to look after the network cannot do so?

I really think that I would have to move on in your situation - not because I would feel put-down by it but really because I just couldn't do the job that I was employed to do.

As for whether teachers are senior to you - this really isn't the case - and are you REALLY saying that you would do anything a teacher told you to do, even if this compromised the network?

We are all here to do what we do best, and we do try to help everyone as much as we can so that teachers can get on with their jobs - but as has been said, we are not subordinate to them. We are offering them expertise that they do not have: professional people helping each other.

As for the teacher/admin rights issue - in my schools the teachers have full admin rights locally on their own laptops so that they can install and test software if they want to. It isn't ideal as I have little control over what they are doing but they have all signed a declaration of personal responsibility and I do keep an eye on what software is where when doing other things on their laptops. And it keeps them from compromising my network.

There is also an issue here about how many users have admin rights - there should really only be one main admin user with full rights -in one of my schools that is used by the head of IT (she was here before me and was doing what tech stuff she could, and as I am part time she has to sort out stuff when I am not there) and in the other one there is only me. In both cases the admin username and password are in the safe in case of emergency.

I have never heard of any tech who does not have admin rights - and there are thousands of us on here!

Good luck with it but you do need to explain how things work to your boss - refer him to other local schools as I doubt they have the same system!

[tomscaper]

I guess this is the perfect example of how BSF will help ICT in a school.

 

I hate the fact how some people make others seem like they are lower than them, my view is that everyone is equal and has a differnt role, without one the other would not work properly, i know this does not happen and is an idealistic view.

 

We had a similar setup here before i started and everyone had full access and what happened in the end was the kids eventually were able to bypass the proxy and got on to porn, this ended up in all the papers, the head, NM all resigned/sacked.

 

Without the propery security anything could happen. If it did all go wrong, i am sure the SMT with there admin access would not fix the problem or take the blame, they would put it all on your head.

 

What is your role in the school and what is your job description and role look like. If this and IT Technician, then as with myself i have the responsibility of installing software, making sure the licencing is right.

 

As said by most other here, they could comprimise any aspect of the network by having full access.

[GrumbleDook]

Teachers above support staff?

 

So ... me, an Assistant Head, is lower than a student teacher?

 

Don't think so ...

 

Let's put it all into perspective. Is a main scale teacher in the history department going to get told how to do things by the head of science? More than likely it will be passed down via the head of history ... there is still a certain structure to follow. The same with support staff. A Network Manager has the same standing as a head of department here. That means the others in the support team will follow instructions from teachers as part of their job, within the realms and scope of your role within the school.

 

If your role is to prepare pages for the website and you get given work to do by a history teacher then that is fine ... if you are asked to cover a lesson then you have every right to say no.

 

If a teacher requests something and can back it up with T&L reasons behind it then yes, it gets looked at but in conjunction with other legal and policy issues. There are times when the T&L means there should be a change in policy, but that applies in reverse too.

 

A teacher should be supported by other staff within the school, but not to the detriment of the whole school agenda, including sustainability, eSafety, data protection, copyright and so on. This is often mistaken as support staff being blockers to T&L or innovation.

 

TAs, HLTAs and cover supervisors have a different role to technical staff, working closer with teachers and they will take direction by teachers as and when required. This is based around a framework of understanding and usually with specific direction. TAs may be in the lesson to support students with additional needs, ranging from behaviour support, one to one learning support or as mentors. A technician in a lesson tends to have only one or two roles ... to ensure the facilities work as they should or to rectify issues that should arise as part of the lesson.

 

The same way that an TA may have additional training to support students with SEN beyond the training or experience a teacher may have, so we have technical staff that have training and experience above and beyond most teachers when it comes to administering a computer network.

 

To ask a teacher to administer a network in this day and age would mean they would have to take considerable amount of time away from the job they are being paid to do. Teach. Even the teaching unions agree this ... and it is not that often that they would agree with 'non-teachers'.

 

IIRC, a school that allows teachers to administer a network would not score well on certain aspects of the SRF ... I will go and dig out the relevant sections of the next few days.