Servers

[Edu-IT]

For a project I need to design a server room and therefore need to select some servers to rack in this room. Servers aren't really my forte so I'm hoping to get some advise from the more knowledgeable people here. I understand that this is only a project and nothing will ever come of this so I could really just pick and choose any server regardless of whether it'll be suitable, because I doubt anybody checking my project will go into that much detail, but nevertheless I want to do it properly and pick appropriate hardware where possible. It'll also be a chance for me to learn something.

 

I've identified that I need 6 servers in total for the scenario I have chosen.

• PDC/print server
  
• BDC
  
• 3 x file servers
  
• Web server/Exchange server

I would appreciate it if somebody could advise me as to what would be a good specification for the servers listed above based on the fact that there will be a maximum of 60 concurrent users, excluding those connected to the web server/exchange server from outside the building.

 

If you can think of anything else I need to factor in then let me know.

[FN-GM]

Instead of file servers have you considered SAN or NAS instead of file servers? I would recommend dell because if you have the right warranty they are speedy at sorting the problem (if one should happen)

Also do you need a proxy or sims server?

[Ric_]

6 servers for 60 clients?

 

I would have thought pretty much anything would handle that

[Edu-IT]

Instead of file servers have you considered SAN or NAS instead of file servers? I would recommend dell because if you have the right warranty they are speedy at sorting the problem (if one should happen)

Also do you need a proxy or sims server?

No I haven't although I've written quite a lot of information already so it's probably a little too late to change my plans now. Warranty isn't an issue because nothing will come of this. In the plan I've included a Smoothwall box.

[localzuk]

For such a low load system, I'd look at using a bunch of HP DL360 G5's with either dual core or quad core processors (probably dual quad cores, as they aren't exactly expensive) - none of them are really going to be highly taxed, 4GB - 8GB ram each, and, depending on the role, either 72GB SAS disks or 146GB SAS disks. And I'd run Windows 2003 Enterprise on them, to make proper use of the memory if I went for 8GB).

 

These would still be quite cheap anyway. Probably about £2.5k each on average.

 

But then, all of that would be overkill for the system really, as we have servers half that spec running 3 times as many concurrent connections. (our school setup is 2 AD servers, one also running DNS and DHCP, the other doubling as our main file server, print server and application server. 1 Sims server, 1 virtual machine server - with 3 VM's running linux for various functions, 1 proxy server. These are specced with dual dual-core xeon's at 2Ghz, 2GB RAM each and a mix of hard disks. Main storage is on an iSCSI device which the file server is mapped to).

[dhicks]

• PDC/print server
  
• BDC
  
• 3 x file servers
  
• Web server/Exchange server

I would appreciate it if somebody could advise me as to what would be a good specification for the servers listed above based on the fact that there will be a maximum of 60 concurrent users, excluding those connected to the web server/exchange server from outside the building.

 

If you can think of anything else I need to factor in then let me know.

 

Buy 3 decent servers with multiple dual/quad core processors with proper hardware RAID that can take half-a-dozen harddrives - maybe something like the Dell PowerEdge 2970 (£1000 basic unit, but expect that to at least double by the time you've added bits). Stuff each with 8GB of RAM. Then set each machine up as a virtual server host and split your listed servers up over them. Give each virtual server its own RAID 1 array to stop disk-accesses interfering with each and slowing things down. Give the host OS a separate RAID 1 array, too. If they have the expansion room, install another gigabit network card in each and get the host OS to combine them into one 2-gigabit connection.

 

You might want to get another machine to act as a gateway / web filter / DHCP / etc machine. We're getting a couple of cheap (literally £100) Dell server to do this.

 

If running a web server, consider the upload bandwidth available - if you're on a plain ADSL connection it will be considerably less than the download bandwidth. Could go for ADSL2+ (quite cheap - £30 - £50 a month), some kind of leased line connection, or consider using an external web hosting company to host your website (depends what's on it - wouldn't recommend that for your VLE as local access would then be over the Internet).

 

--

David Hicks

[zag]

For the domain controllers I would go with 2 dual core workstations/low end servers with standard equipment inside. This allows you to image them quickly and be able to swap parts in an emergency. I moved my DC's from a big raid jobbie to a nice small server and it really makes a difference in a disaster recovery situation.

[localzuk]

For the domain controllers I would go with 2 dual core workstations/low end servers with standard equipment inside. This allows you to image them quickly and be able to swap parts in an emergency. I moved my DC's from a big raid jobbie to a nice small server and it really makes a difference in a disaster recovery situation.

 

So your DC's don't have RAID??

[psydii]

Warranty isn't an issue because nothing will come of this. In the plan I've included a Smoothwall box.

 

Well the plan isn't viable without warrenties on your servers, so what would be the point of making a plan that couldn't work?

 

FWIW I agree with the VM model, but I'd keep the file server on a separate box/disks.

[button_ripple]

For a project I need to design a server room and therefore need to select some servers to rack in this room. Servers aren't really my forte so I'm hoping to get some advise from the more knowledgeable people here. I understand that this is only a project and nothing will ever come of this so I could really just pick and choose any server regardless of whether it'll be suitable, because I doubt anybody checking my project will go into that much detail, but nevertheless I want to do it properly and pick appropriate hardware where possible. It'll also be a chance for me to learn something.

 

I've identified that I need 6 servers in total for the scenario I have chosen.

• PDC/print server
  
• BDC
  
• 3 x file servers
  
• Web server/Exchange server

I would appreciate it if somebody could advise me as to what would be a good specification for the servers listed above based on the fact that there will be a maximum of 60 concurrent users, excluding those connected to the web server/exchange server from outside the building.

 

If you can think of anything else I need to factor in then let me know.

 

 

We have that sort of set-up here. We got some very cheap RM servers to do the job. They are 2GHz dual core processor, 2GB of RAM, 2x500GB hard drives. They are absolutley fine (although i would recommend getting about 3-4 GB RAM) We have about 70-80 connected at one time and this does not affect the performance at all. (we are currently running the servers at 100mbits because our 1gpit switch went funny last week and we cannot afford to replace it until end of march!

[Edu-IT]

Thanks for the recommendations and advice.

 

As I mentioned above one of the servers above will act as a web server/exchange server. Do I need to setup a DMZ? I've tried to get my head around this before but it's difficult to explain something when you don't know it in enough detail.

 

Well the plan isn't viable without warrenties on your servers, so what would be the point of making a plan that couldn't work?

I do not need to mention warranties.

[FN-GM]

Sorry but I don't understand where you are coming from about warranty. Its something important in the event your server dies. All our servers have 4 hours 24 x 7 response. You don't want your server to break and it costing a fortune and then making the job hard of not finding the right parts and taking them ages to arrive etc.

[Edu-IT]

Sorry but I don't understand where you are coming from about warranty. Its something important in the event your server dies. All our servers have 4 hours 24 x 7 response. You don't want your server to break and it costing a fortune and then making the job hard of not finding the right parts and taking them ages to arrive etc.

I agree but for this I do not need to write about the maintenance of the network.

 

You might want to get another machine to act as a gateway / web filter / DHCP / etc machine. We're getting a couple of cheap (literally £100) Dell server to do this.

I've already included a SmoothWall SmoothGuard, do I still need a gateway? My plan was to just connect the router provided by the ISP to a switch.

[FN-GM]

I know where you are coming from but surely you would want us to share our experiences with the service on warranty work?

[powdarrmonkey]

As I mentioned above one of the servers above will act as a web server/exchange server. Do I need to setup a DMZ? I've tried to get my head around this before but it's difficult to explain something when you don't know it in enough detail.

 

If you're going to expose it to the world, then yes, but you need to consider how you'll authenticate exchange users.

[FN-GM]

I would get a separate webserver. We have our own private network (vlan) for our webserver. Our main network is not exposed to the world. Our exchange is obviously but only for incoming mail though.

 

Just a suggestion

 

ittech's idea for the DC's is pretty good

Edited February 6, 2008 by FN-Greatermanchester
typo

[Edu-IT]

I know where you are coming from but surely you would want us to share our experiences with the service on warranty work?

Nothing will come of this plan so the service provided by companies doesn't matter to me.

 

If you're going to expose it to the world, then yes, but you need to consider how you'll authenticate exchange users.

That throws another spanner in the works. I don't understand DMZ's.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Edu-IT

[FN-GM]

So your not getting the servers then?

[FN-GM]

Oh right its a project. I get you now! sorry i didn't read it properly, a blonde moment.

[Edu-IT]

Oh right its a project. I get you now! sorry i didn't read it properly, a blonde moment.

Not a problem. In the real world what you have said is valid but for this there is no need for me to discuss warranties.

 

I've already wrote about the different servers so really I would like to get my head around DMZ's rather than using a VLAN. When a DMZ is used is there anything additional that I need to show in a network diagram or is the DMZ simply configured through the server? I'm clueless.

 

Internet | Firewall | Web Server/Exchange Server | Firewall | Servers

 

The part in red would obviously be the DMZ. What exactly do I require to create the DMZ and also as mentioned above how do I authenticate the exchange users if there is a DMZ?

Edited February 6, 2008 by Edu-IT

[localzuk]

Well, the way a DMZ usually works is that it is a physically segmented network (or a virtually segmented one with ACL's in place) is used to host the externally facing services. The internal network is allowed to communicate to those services via the router/firewall but the server is not allowed to communicate with internal hosts directly.

 

The way I'd probably do it is to have 3 network cards in the smoothwall box, 1 for the LAN, 1 for the router and 1 for the DMZ. Then plug the router directly into the smoothwall box and the other 2 either into the same switch but on different VLAN's or into 2 different switches that can't directly talk to each other.

 

But there are, of course, other ways of doing it.

[Edu-IT]

I'm well and truly confused. I take it that I would then configure the VLANs through the SmoothWall or have I completely missed the point?

 

I've gone for the SmoothGuard 1000-UTM box which has "7 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces configurable as any combination of external, DMZ or local networks".

http://www.smoothwall.co.uk/products/smoothguard1000/

[localzuk]

If you were to go with the VLAN option, you would plug the cables into the switch from the smoothwall box, and set up the VLANs on the switch - assigning each port that connects in to a different VLAN. You would allow inter-vlan routing between any vlan's on the internal network but not the DMZ and internal network. The smoothwall box would be used as the router for that, and then firewall rules be used to allow traffic through or not.

 

On the smoothwall box (i've not used smoothwall in a while so this may be a little different) you would then assign the connected interfaces to their functions - internal (green), external (red) and DMZ (orange).

[Edu-IT]

If you were to go with the VLAN option, you would plug the cables into the switch from the smoothwall box, and set up the VLANs on the switch

In the server room there will be a fiber feed which connects to a switch. I've been told that this could cause a bottleneck, any suggestions as to what else to do? The seven servers then connect to this switch. Are you saying that I should connect the cables to the switch on the SmoothWall box and not the other switch I've put in place? Or could I configure the different VLANs on the switch I already have and simply connect the SmoothWall box to this switch?

 

The only servers connecting to the outside world will be the Web Server/Exchange server so does this class as external or DMZ? I would think DMZ.

 

Sorry if this seems simple.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Edu-IT

[localzuk]

In the server room there will be a fiber feed which connects to a switch. I've been told that this could cause a bottleneck, any suggestions as to what else to do? The seven servers then connect to this switch. Are you saying that I should connect the cables to the switch on the SmoothWall box and not the other switch I've put in place? Or could I configure the different VLANs on the switch I already have and simply connect the SmoothWall box to this switch?

 

The only servers connecting to the outside world will be the Web Server/Exchange server so does this class as external or DMZ? I would think DMZ.

 

Sorry if this seems simple.

 

Easiest way of saying it is with a diagram. The slide1.jpg file is using VLANs and slide2.jpg is physical seperation.

 

For the first, the switch would have 3 VLANs set up with the smoothwall box plugged in to 3 ports - each on a different vlan. The router would be on another port in 1 vlan, and the DMZ'd servers (website and exchange) would be on another 2 only in that VLAN. Then the smoothwall box would have the appropriate rules set up to allow access to the internet and dmz from internal, and access to the DMZ from external.

 

In the second, the switch is dedicated to the internal LAN, the router is plugged directly into the smoothwall box, as are the 2 DMZ'd servers, and 1 port plugs in to the switch. Then appropriate rules are set up as in the first.