foofighterjim Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I am considering our options when it comes to our backup system. We currently use Backup Exec 2012 and have not had a good time with it, the whole thing usually falls over once every two months and we just cant rely on it. Veeam seems like it may be a viable solution for us as we are (mostly) virtualised (VMware). Anyway, BE2012 is installed on our physical server (12 cores, 16GB RAM & 14TB of storage) and our current cluster of VMs takes up approximately 2.2TB. We take weekly full backups and daily differential backups and these are duplicated to tape. We are happy with the current backup hardware and we are clearly good for storage, although we may need more tapes. We still have one physical SIMS Server that still needs to be backed up but the hardware it is on is still good for another two years so I'm reluctant to P2V it (and it is a different chipset family to our existing ESXi hosts). I would like to split the roles of my current VMs to reduce the load on each one; such as creating separate WSUS, KMS, Spiceworks & Eclipse.net servers, but with BE I would need a very expensive license for each one and the cost isn't justifiable. I am also looking at hosting our future VLE on site which again would be another VM and a lot of storage. So onto Veeam Is it capable of backing up my physical SIMS server? Is it able to do differential backups or is it the whole server each time? What version of the software should I be looking at (I think I need Veeam Backup & Replication Enterprise)? Do I have to license each VM in addition to buying the software? I am considering ditching the tape library and using an online provider for the duplicate (disaster recovery) backup, has anyone found this cost effective as opposed to buying more tapes? Failing that is there a way to check my tape library is compatible it Veeam?
Steve21 Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 By default it's virtual only, there was some physical option released but I think it's more for pcs/desktops etc rather than servers. Announcing Veeam Endpoint Backup FREE It can do many different ones Doesn't need to be whole thing We use B&R 8 (Enterprise) but get it as part of Essentials (Including Veeam ONE etc). Works out much much cheaper, you pay for 2 Sockets at a time. But it's limited to 6 for essentials. Before it goes up a lot more You pay nothing for licenses in regards to VM or your backup server. It's only on the Sockets of the HOSTs you're backing up. e.g. We have 2 HyperV HOSTS 2 sockets each so 4 sockets. 40~ servers between them. Cloud wise I'm finding it expensive when researching, but obviously depends on if you want ease of use or cost Steve 1
truebluesteve Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Been using Veeam for a while and its pretty good, but to answer your questions 1. Not as far as I know 2. Yes - forward and reverse incrementals 3. Backup and replication enterprise essentials is what I have and will be fine for you I think 4. No - its done on the number of physical sockets on your hosts. They do them in bundles of 2 sockets (well they did when we got ours) 5. I use Redstor as my duplicate (cloud-based) backup. Its not as cheap as tape but its a lot less hassle! We also have a tape library (Overland Neo) which does work with Veeam but it wasn't that reliable - it would often skip folders if it couldn't enumerate them and seemed to take quite a long time. Its also a lot less flexible that either Veeam for VM's or Backup exec. I have gone back to using BE2010 to back up a very large share Hope this helps Edited November 11, 2015 by truebluesteve 1
teejay Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 It might be worth looking at Arcserve UDP which will do physical and virtual, works very well.
PotNoodleTech Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I love Veeam. Franky, I'd P2V you're SIMS server just so that I could use lovely Veeam on it. It makes Backup Exec look like some old educational software a teacher brought in on a floppy disk years ago!
foofighterjim Posted November 11, 2015 Author Posted November 11, 2015 We also have a tape library (Overland Neo) which does work with Veeam but it wasn't that reliable - it would often skip folders if it couldn't enumerate them and seemed to take quite a long time. Its also a lot less flexible that either Veeam for VM's or Backup exec. I have gone back to using BE2010 to back up a very large share Interesting that you are using both, are Veeam and BE on separate servers? I could in theory continue to use BE for the SIMS server and Veeam the rest as long as they could exist on the same hardware. However I would have to figure out what to do about the tape loader as I'm guessing both systems wouldn't be able to use it consecutively. It might be worth looking at Arcserve UDP which will do physical and virtual, works very well. Sounds interesting, I will have a look at that! I love Veeam. Franky, I'd P2V you're SIMS server just so that I could use lovely Veeam on it. It makes Backup Exec look like some old educational software a teacher brought in on a floppy disk years ago! Hard sell I'm afraid as I would effectively be retiring it two years early.
Steve21 Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Hard sell I'm afraid as I would effectively be retiring it two years early. Any reason you don't consider using the server but just sticking hyperv on it? can then backup virtual still but use the full powerrrrrrr of the server Just random idea Steve
timbo343 Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 I love Veeam. Franky, I'd P2V you're SIMS server just so that I could use lovely Veeam on it. It makes Backup Exec look like some old educational software a teacher brought in on a floppy disk years ago! Do you not find that VEEAM are missing a trick when it comes to restoring though? I loved Backup Exec's restore wizard and the fact i didnt have to keep reloading the backup sets meant i could quickly compare backups when restoring files.
truebluesteve Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Interesting that you are using both, are Veeam and BE on separate servers? I could in theory continue to use BE for the SIMS server and Veeam the rest as long as they could exist on the same hardware. However I would have to figure out what to do about the tape loader as I'm guessing both systems wouldn't be able to use it consecutively.. No you can't use both together - I had to stop the BE services otherwise Veeam complained. Veeam is on its own VM whilst BE is on an old server 2003 physical box. I'd use Veeam for your VMs and leave the BE/tapeloader to backup SIMS and any other physical boxes.
timbo343 Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 No you can't use both together - I had to stop the BE services otherwise Veeam complained. Veeam is on its own VM whilst BE is on an old server 2003 physical box. I'd use Veeam for your VMs and leave the BE/tapeloader to backup SIMS and any other physical boxes. Thats what ae are doing, we have a 5 year old BE version which is backing up our physical 2008 servers until we retire them. VEEAM does the rest which are VMs
howartp Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Our SIMS server is VM, so backed up that way, but our NAS and phone system are still physical - I use Veeam Endpoint on them, but with B&R as their target. I can monitor them and view their history in B&R, I just can't configure them.
ozydave Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) P2Ved my sims server in 2009 onto VMware been backing up with Veeam every since then. Veeam is a great bit of software. We back up to a 14TB server and use Veeams copy backup to copy to another disconnected building. Edited November 11, 2015 by ozydave
truebluesteve Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Thats what ae are doing, we have a 5 year old BE version which is backing up our physical 2008 servers until we retire them. VEEAM does the rest which are VMs No I actually meant both trying to access the tape library - not even at the same time. Veeam couldn't seem to access it if the BE services were running. Otherwise our setup is similar to yours!
foofighterjim Posted November 12, 2015 Author Posted November 12, 2015 Any reason you don't consider using the server but just sticking hyperv on it? can then backup virtual still but use the full powerrrrrrr of the server Not really considered it as we are VMware. Our SIMS server is VM, so backed up that way, but our NAS and phone system are still physical - I use Veeam Endpoint on them, but with B&R as their target. I can monitor them and view their history in B&R, I just can't configure them. Would you rely on this method for your SIMS Server though? After all it is probably the one server I need to be 100% certain about. P2Ved my sims server in 2009 onto VMware been backing up with Veeam every since then. Veeam is a great bit of software. We back up to a 14TB server and use Veeams copy backup to copy to another disconnected building. So you are effectively doing D2D2D just with the final backup in a different building. It is something we could do here in theory but would need even more investment in hardware. How long do you all find Veeam takes to backup and to restore? From what I understand it takes a snapshot of the VM at host level, I would think that would be quite quick.
PotNoodleTech Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Hard sell I'm afraid as I would effectively be retiring it two years early. Or, an easy sell, as currently it is not disaster proof, based on the fact if anything happened to that physical server, you would not be able to restore the Backupexec backup onto a new server and get it all up and running quickly and easily. On the other hand, once it's VmWare'd and Veeame'd it's effectively Disaster proof, in a disaster, you could restore it onto an old Core2Duo workstation if push came to shove, and keep SIMS up and running like a hero. What would I do in you're situation? I'd virtualise SIMS, Purchase Veeam, and convert the old SIMS server into a tertiary backup server based in a totally different building, for Veeaam to use to copy it's jobs to so that then you have two copies of all you're backups.
PotNoodleTech Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Do you not find that VEEAM are missing a trick when it comes to restoring though? I loved Backup Exec's restore wizard and the fact i didnt have to keep reloading the backup sets meant i could quickly compare backups when restoring files. Yes the restore wizard could do with some polishing. It is fit for purpose though. - - - Updated - - - Do you not find that VEEAM are missing a trick when it comes to restoring though? I loved Backup Exec's restore wizard and the fact i didnt have to keep reloading the backup sets meant i could quickly compare backups when restoring files. Yes the restore wizard could do with some polishing. It is fit for purpose though.
foofighterjim Posted November 12, 2015 Author Posted November 12, 2015 What would I do in you're situation? I'd virtualise SIMS, Purchase Veeam, and convert the old SIMS server into a tertiary backup server based in a totally different building, for Veeaam to use to copy it's jobs to so that then you have two copies of all you're backups. It is a valid point but I would have to increase the storage of that server. I don't know if I can justify throwing new disks at a server with an impending end of life date. Even after converting to RAID 0 it would only have 1.5TB so the entire array would have to be replaced.
simpsonj Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Do you guys buy Veeam direct from the website, or use a reseller? If a reseller, any suggestions who I could talk to? Sounds like its an ideal solution for me judging by this thread.
PotNoodleTech Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Yeh Veeam don't sell direct, I got mine from Millgate though I think any large company will be able to supply you with Veeam Licences. You order from the supplier, then Veeam contact you directly RE: licences/software download etc.
maxrebo Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Sorry to hijack the thread but i thought it would be best to post in here other than start another thread. I've been wanting to implement Veeam for sometime but the lack of funds got in the way. I have a few questions - 1. Is it beneficial to use Veeam when our VM`s are all on local storage? 2. With our local storage setup would you setup a VM for Veeam and the use this as the Backup server? cheers
PotNoodleTech Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 1. Is it beneficial to use Veeam when our VM`s are all on local storage? Yes, Veeam makes sure you're VMS are backed up, no matter if the VMs are on local storage or shared storage 2. With our local storage setup would you setup a VM for Veeam and the use this as the Backup server? Technically you can, but realistically, no, because you're local storage is then also you're backup storage which is putting all you're eggs in one basket. You're backup storage should be separate [physically] from you're local storage so that if you're local storage goes down you can still get to you're data using Veeam and if necessary restore it to another server. 1
Steve21 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 1. Is it beneficial to use Veeam when our VM`s are all on local storage? 2. With our local storage setup would you setup a VM for Veeam and the use this as the Backup server? The storage you backup up "from" doesn't make a difference. As long as it's virtual machines etc Veeam will do it That depends on your setup, for example we run veeam on a physical server that has local storage as the backup repository. (Seperate room to our servers) If for example you have a NAS drive so no server linked to it, you'd need to use a VM etc Steve 1
maxrebo Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Ok thanks for this. Licensing wise - I have been quoted for The essential and also the Essential Plus - What benefits does the Essential Plus give you? And i see its 2 Socket bundle, would this be for the server i use for backing up TO - i.e if I installed it on a Physical box running W2k12 Thanks
Steve21 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Ok thanks for this. Licensing wise - I have been quoted for The essential and also the Essential Plus - What benefits does the Essential Plus give you? And i see its 2 Socket bundle, would this be for the server i use for backing up TO - i.e if I installed it on a Physical box running W2k12 Thanks The Socket is for the HOSTs. e.g. 2 Socket = 1 HOST with 2 sockets, or 2 HOST with 1 socket etc. But could be 10000000 VMs running on them Can backup TO unlimited places with the license. e.g. We replicate to 1 server, and backup to 2 others Steve
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