Arthur Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Surely MPs don't need an iPad and a laptop? Sources: Computerworld / The Telegraph All 650 MPs will be given an iPad Air 2 and a laptop by the Parliamentary ICT team when they return after the general election this May. It will cost about £200,000 per year over the next Parliament, adding up to a total of £1 million, or £1,538 per MP over five years. The handout is part of a plan to save £3 million a year by getting MPs and staff to read and annotate papers on devices rather than printing hard copies. iPads were first introduced in Parliament as part of a pilot in 2012, with 209 currently in use by MPs, according to John Thurso MP in response to a written parliamentary question. The decision to hand out iPads was taken after an “independent assessment” of alternative tablets and how much it would cost to re-work existing services, infrastructure and train members and staff, Thurso said. The recommendation for all MPs to be given tablets and laptops when they return this year was proposed by the House of Commons Commission in September 2013 then approved by MPs on the Administration Committee. The requirement was “for a secure, SIM-enabled tablet with a good life expectancy and capable of supporting future upgrades”. The iPad Air 2 met these requirements and the committee found it to be “competitively priced” compared to similar models The committee reviewed tablets ranging from £100 to £600. A basic cellular iPad Air 2 costs about £500 when bought individually. “iPads are integrated with current business processes…a move away from the Apple operating system (iOS) at this time would incur costs to change these processes,” he explained. Shadow Cabinet Office minister Chi Onwurah, who submitted the parliamentary questions, criticised the decision to lock MPs into the iOS operating system. Onwurah said she would have preferred a ‘device agnostic’ policy for MPs. “It’s great that Parliament is becoming more digitally literate but choosing a vertically integrated proprietary system at a time when GDS and indeed the digital community is pushing open source, open standards and interoperability raises real concerns,” she told ComputerworldUK. “As we saw with Nigel Mills and Candy Crush, MPs will be using the games, and the iTunes and other features on the iPad and locking some of the most powerful people in the country into a platform that most of my constituents can’t afford seems like a mistake. And that’s without mentioning the tax avoidance issue. I’m pushing for a device independent digital platform for Parliament.” Parliament is due to replace the separate Parliamentary ICT (PICT) and Web & Intranet Service (WIS) teams with a single 'Parliamentary Digital Service', with 300 staff and a budget of £30 million including £6 million to invest in ICT. Rob Greig, currently chief technology officer (CTO) at the Royal Opera House, has been appointed to lead the new digital service and is due to start next month.
rich_tech Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I don't know what to make of that in all honesty, most businesses on that scale, even local government have to have some sort of IT provision for their staff, I think I would rather them be on iOS to android, remote wiping being one active security function I can think of there, though I do think that its not as if the iPad has become a super serious "Laptop" replacement, I think its widely acknowledged that you cannot do "Everything" on one of them. Why they didn't kill two birds with one stone and go Surface Pros all around begs a question, would have weighed in a bit cheaper to keep it all onto a single platform with Windows all around, added the fact that the app store is pretty empty would have meant no one in session playing angry birds too
ZeroHour Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Monument Valley appears to be the app of choice for USA politicos
Meldrew Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 So presumably the laptop is a mac laptop? Is that 'competitively priced' too? Doesn't say so, in fact that's (dare I say it) carefully swept under the carpet. Meldrew
Alis_Klar Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I don't think this is such a big deal but if the backend really does lock in the the end devices supported than that is not good. The devices will be replaced in a few years when truely secure agnostic backend systems will have matured. For now I think it is the right decision. Parlimentary IT is not going to be risk taking and the safe option today is iPads. Probably with Windows laptops. A good high end ultrabook will cost the same as a Macbook. All the iPads will be used for is email with perhaps a custom developed parliament app. With some of the the more "digitally" literate MP's using it for social media (eek). The real waste of money is when the old doddery MP's leave the devices in a dusty cupboard unused. Edited March 26, 2015 by Alis_Klar
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I'm all for saving money and being more environmentally friendly by cutting down printing. However, I'd like to know why the decision was made to buy iPads and laptops (presumably also Apple) rather than a Surface Pro 3 (or similar) each - laptop and tablet in one, Windows based so more easily managed centrally, cheaper overall cost... If there's some legitimate reason for the choice then fair enough, but I suspect it's just "because Apple". I am glad that at least the shadow cabinet minister Chi Onwurah has questioned this choice and that she's pushing for a device agnostic platform - that's the best solution really. Then more suitable, business laptops can be bought for MPs and if they want to use iPads they can buy their own! Edited March 26, 2015 by LosOjos
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Worse than teachers that lot! Actually would be interested in its impact on cost and paper saving, but I'll probably forget about that in a few years.
sonofsanta Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Hahaha! They think that giving people shiny devices will stop them printing out anything and everything? Are they mad? This won't save £3m on printing, it'll just cost £1m on devices while everyone carries on as before.
localzuk Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 About £300 a year cost. That's not at all a bad cost for 2 devices for a member of staff. It actually works out around the same as our cost per teacher for hardware provision here (or, it did, until we moved from HP laptops to Very PC).
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This won't save £3m on printing, it'll just cost £1m on devices while everyone carries on as before. That's not strictly true it'll mean MORE of them now play candy crush than before.
sonofsanta Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 That's not strictly true it'll mean MORE of them now play candy crush than before. So this is a move being pushed by the Civil Service to keep the MPs distracted and out of trouble while the CS gets on with the real business of running the country, you say? You know what, you might have something there.
Nibiru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Such a pity mobile devices werent around in the days of Yes Minister - the writers could have had soooo much fun with assorted scenarios
mthomas08 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Monument Valley appears to be the app of choice for USA politicos Not Candy Crush? Another one of those "We want it for the sake of it".... don't see why they need any IT access when they should be debating how to fix the country.
localzuk Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Not Candy Crush? Another one of those "We want it for the sake of it".... don't see why they need any IT access when they should be debating how to fix the country. Sorry, what? That makes no sense at all. MPs use computers to contact constituents, they are now going to be using them to review laws electronically rather than on paper. To think they only "debate" is nonsensical to say the least.
unixman_again Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 The government is moving into the 21st cent very quickly. It was only 4 years ago (almost to the day) that the first MP was allowed to deliver a speech in Parliament from an iPad. Mind you, they still wave order papers at each other. I have yet to see somebody wave an iPad.
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 However, I'd like to know why the decision was made to buy iPads and laptops (presumably also Apple) rather than a Surface Pro 3 (or similar) each - laptop and tablet in one, Windows based so more easily managed centrally, cheaper overall cost... It would be nice if they bought technology from a company that actually pays tax. It is a gripe of mine that any public funds can be spent with companies who aggressively seek to avoid paying their fair share.
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 It would be nice if they bought technology from a company that actually pays tax. It is a gripe of mine that any public funds can be spent with companies who aggressively seek to avoid paying their fair share. This from the same government* that publicly decries tax-dodging corporations whilst simultaneously doing nothing to prevent it. * that government being the UK government; none of the parties are doing anything about it!
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 It would be nice if they bought technology from a company that actually pays tax. It is a gripe of mine that any public funds can be spent with companies who aggressively seek to avoid paying their fair share. Apple DO pay tax. What's 'fair' is completely subjective!
sted Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 This from the same government* that publicly decries tax-dodging corporations whilst simultaneously doing nothing to prevent it. * that government being the UK government; none of the parties are doing anything about it! thats the problem you cant really blame amazon/apple etc for not paying tax they legally dont have to (and why would they) its the system thats at fault for allowing them to do so but ive yet to see anything that might close the loopholes (that i suspect are inserted by mps/cs personnel so they can sell "insider knowledge" and get a high paid job when they leave or are inserted by lobby groups who probably have m ore access/influence with your mp than you do 2
LosOjos Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 thats the problem you cant really blame amazon/apple etc for not paying tax they legally dont have to (and why would they) its the system thats at fault for allowing them to do so but ive yet to see anything that might close the loopholes (that i suspect are inserted by mps/cs personnel so they can sell "insider knowledge" and get a high paid job when they leave or are inserted by lobby groups who probably have m ore access/influence with your mp than you do Don't get me wrong, I lay the blame squarely at the feet of our government. My point was actually supposed to agree with yours; publicly MPs might be quoted as talking about what a rotten lot these tax dodgers are, but they're doing absolutely nothing to stop it, so they clearly have ulterior motives.
pcstru Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Apple DO pay tax. What's 'fair' is completely subjective! Apple paid under £12 million in corporation tax last year on declared revenues of £100 million. Reasonable estimates of apples sales in the UK are around £10 billion. You might call that subjective, I don't think I would. I also think that while it is true that governments are at fault for not tackling the issue, companies do have social responsibilities that should compel them to behave morally, ethically and fairly. The oft heard refrain that companies are obliged to maximise profits above all other considerations, is specious. They are part of society not apart from it. We are also part of the problem, we should not buy their products if they do not behave in ways we believe are acceptable. 1
Miscbrah Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 Apple paid under £12 million in corporation tax last year on declared revenues of £100 million. Reasonable estimates of apples sales in the UK are around £10 billion. You might call that subjective, I don't think I would. No, I would call that a company that's actually paying tax. As you did, but asserted that they didn't pay tax in your original post. What the 'fair share' of it is, is entirely subjective next to what's 'legal' and, as far as Apple are concerned *dons sunglasses* the jury's still out on that one.
difinity Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 On the grand scheme of things a million quid is nothing. These companies that people say are dodging tax, they are operating within the law of this and the other countries they operate in. They just seem to employ people smarter than those that make the laws. If i am driving at 29 in a 30 zone, i am not a speeding fine dodger. I wouldn't buy Apple, but my daughter likes their stuff. However the amount of Apple devices i now fix, pays for her shiny.
IrritableTech Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 I wonder how many of them will use their official parliamentary email address to register with apple? The simple iMessage trick that lets you text almost any MP without knowing their mobile number
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