Virtualization project

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Sounds noisy!

 

Not massively actually...

 

I don't have my SPL meter with me or i'd get all statisticy (I'm claiming the creation of this word) but they're no louder than a DL360

[Roberto]

There will be those who disagree with me entirely here but I'm going to say it anyway. I don't think that SCCM is a particularly good candidate for virtualisation.

 

First of all, it's huge. It needs a SQL database. Storing OS images and software deployments takes up gobs of space. If it's sharing resources with other servers, the performance of those servers is going to suffer when it's pushing out OS images or updates or whatever. If I were you, I'd put it on its own server if you can.

 

For those that are wondering, this is what happened the last time I put on my sunglasses and then asked @Norphy about putting SCCM on one of our virtual farms...

 

[stevewill6]

OS install

I am looking at where to install the OS. I will be using the full server 2012 install until I am confident enough to just use the hypervisor. Do I create a partition on the RAID 10 array or use a SDcard /USB stick? Will USB/SD be large/fast enough for a full install?

 

Licencing.

I am leaning towards standard not datacentre licencing as I cant see us running lots of servers. Can the licences be moved to a new server if the server was to be replaced? We have a EES schools agreement is it better to buy through that or buy outright?

 

Backup

The plan is to use hyper-v replica to replicate the VMs between hosts. Use Veeam (possibly free version) to back up the VMs to a old server. Then copy the back up from the old server to a NAS in a separate location. Weekly copy's to be taken off site via USB HDD.

 

Hardware

And then there's the wonderful little 1U HP Special edition machines we took from a microsoft data centre. Pair of hex cores (X5670) 96GB 10600R & 8 x 300GB 10K SAS for less than two grand.

 

These are what we are looking at purchasing. With a extra 4x1gb Network ports (6 in total). I do agree that space is a issue (1.2TB usable) but from my estimates (800gb total for all VMs) We should manage.

I am looking at possibly using 3 hosts instead of the 2 but the 3rd would be added a year later.

 

SCCM I will try, if it does become a problem I could move it to its own hyper-v host.

 

 

Thanks for your Help everyone

[Steve21]

OS install

I am looking at where to install the OS. I will be using the full server 2012 install until I am confident enough to just use the hypervisor. Do I create a partition on the RAID 10 array or use a SDcard /USB stick? Will USB/SD be large/fast enough for a full install?

 

Licencing.

I am leaning towards standard not datacentre licencing as I cant see us running lots of servers. Can the licences be moved to a new server if the server was to be replaced? We have a EES schools agreement is it better to buy through that or buy outright?

 

Assuming you're still sticking with HyperV rather than VMWare it's just using the HyperV console within Windows. Other things shouldn't be installed on the base host really, so the entire "host" OS disk is part of the hypervisor.

 

I'd suggest you do go for Data Centre personally, The amount of new servers you suddenly realise you want/can play with etc and it's free to do as many as you want after first purchase Whether it's test server, helpdesk, email blahblah

 

Steve

[stevewill6]

Assuming you're still sticking with HyperV rather than VMWare it's just using the HyperV console within Windows. Other things shouldn't be installed on the base host really, so the entire "host" OS disk is part of the hypervisor.

 

So just install the hypervisor and use a win8 pc to manage it? Install it on a fast SDcard or usb stick.

[Steve21]

So just install the hypervisor and use a win8 pc to manage it? Install it on a fast SDcard or usb stick.

 

Err not what I meant HyperV is literally a role within Server2012R2, so your "hypervisor" is 2012R2. Just with an option ticked etc. It's not VMWare style with a small hypervisor.

 

So you can remote it and manage it locally from any pc, or you can use HyperV on any computer to connect to it and manage it if you want.

 

We have it installed locally as it's actually Server 2012R2 so talking 50GB with updates etc

 

Steve

[synaesthesia]

SCCM is *fine* virtualised. We had it on one of our main servers along with file servers and that struggled, but moved it to it's own dedicated VM (ESXi) and it's been perfect as far as performance goes. It shares a host with a VM running Impero too which is quite demanding at times.

ESXi also runs happily on a 4GB USB drive in one of ours (obviously not a Sandisk)

I echo a few comments above about SAN - I don't believe it's worth it these days. Like Blu-Ray players, the time has come and gone (although there's always going to be some that swear by them) and noone will notice the fact you missed them. With cloud storage looming, "making do" with good local storage in the servers will more than surpass your requirements, and with technologies like deduplication, DFRS, volume shadow copies, easy backup solutions from the likes of VEEAM you can knock up an extremely resilient setup with relative ease without spending £bloodyhell on a SAN.

[localzuk]

Err not what I meant HyperV is literally a role within Server2012R2, so your "hypervisor" is 2012R2. Just with an option ticked etc. It's not VMWare style with a small hypervisor.

 

That's not entirely true. Hyper-V is the hypervisor, not 2012R2. The Windows environment operates in a child partition, on top of Hyper-V.

Hyper-V - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You can install *just* Hyper-V.

[stevewill6]

Err not what I meant HyperV is literally a role within Server2012R2, so your "hypervisor" is 2012R2. Just with an option ticked etc. It's not VMWare style with a small hypervisor.

 

So you can remote it and manage it locally from any pc, or you can use HyperV on any computer to connect to it and manage it if you want.

 

We have it installed locally as it's actually Server 2012R2 so talking 50GB with updates etc

 

Steve

 

Ok, this is installed on to the same RAID array as the vm storage? in my instance a 100gb partition on the RAID 10 array.

[tmcd35]

Ok, this is installed on to the same RAID array as the vm storage? in my instance a 100gb partition on the RAID 10 array.

 

Yes

 

That's not entirely true. Hyper-V is the hypervisor, not 2012R2. The Windows environment operates in a child partition, on top of Hyper-V.

Hyper-V - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You can install *just* Hyper-V.

 

I think you are both half right AFAIK, even the totally free "Hyper-V only" download installs a cut down version of Server Core for management function (could be wrong never tested). The host copy of Windows runs in the Parent Partition with special privileges, the guest OS's run in the child partition. What's important is that the hypervisor runs at a lower hardware level (Ring -1 - the CPU virtualisation instruction set) and both host and guest OS's run at Ring 0 (the standard CPU instruction set).

 

 

To answer the OP though - If you're paying our for Datacenter anyway to use in the guest OS's, then there's absolutely no real logical reason no to install the full fat copy of Windows with Hyper-V. If you notice the extra system resources it's going to take up then you've under spec'd the host server.

[stevewill6]

Good Afternoon.

 

I have just been give the go ahead to get pricing on the servers.

 

I am planning on using Server 2012 R2 Datacenter with the hyper v role on the host. Do I install the host OS on a 32gb USB Pen drive or do I install it on the Raid 10 array?

 

I am looking at getting the HP Proliant DL360 G8 with 8 Drive bays so I am reluctant to dedicate 2 drives for the host OS.

 

Thanks

Steve

[tmcd35]

If you are using an 8-drive RAID-10 array, partition around 80Gb, max 120Gb for future proofing?, for the OS and install on there. Somehow I'm (personally) not comfortable with the idea of running Windows off a USB stick...

[localzuk]

I'd never advise using a USB stick as an OS partition! USB flash storage isn't reliable enough.

[stevewill6]

Brilliant, I was hoping you would say that. One less problem to worry about.

[SHimmer45]

MS i think did / do certify certain memory sticks / solid state memory cards for OEM's and they did release guidance for none OEM's to set this up for Hyper-V server.

i looked at it and wasn't overly keen.

 

however people do run ESXI off memory sticks without issues?

all down to the amount of reads and writes for the longevity of the media

[stevewill6]

Morning.

 

Looking to order the hardware for this in the next week or 2 this is what I am looking at getting.

2x Host Servers

HP Proliant DL380p Gen9

Single Xeon Hex (6) Core CPU

4x16GB RAM 64GB

8x 600GB 10K SAS (RAID10)

4 Network Ports

Dual redundant PSUs

3 Year next day onsite Warranty

 

1x Backup Server

HP Proliant DL380p Gen9

Single Xeon Hex (6) Core CPU

8GB RAM

8x 1TB SATA (RAID10)

4 Network Ports

Dual redundant PSUs

3 Year next day onsite Warranty

 

NAS Box for Off site backup

Synology Disk station DS414

4x 2TB SATA

 

Am I Missing anything?

 

The reason for a single CPU is at the moment I do not think we will need all the CPU power, and its easy enough to add if it is needed a year or 2 down the road.

 

Backup software is Veeam.

 

Thanks

[tmcd35]

Generally looks good to me. I'd ask a couple of questions on the backup server though. Does it really need 6 cores? Maybe some money saving to be had there, entry level Xeon should do the job. Also 4Tb? is that enough? I suppose it does depend on the size of schools, amount of data, back up regime and retention policy - but given 2.4Tb on the hosts, I'd have gone for nearer 10Tb to keep decent generational backups.

 

Also, personally, I'd give those spec's over to VeryPC and Novatech. IMHO, there's almost certain some saving to be had and some great support/service from the bespoke solution providers. Our server farm is currently around 50/50 between those two suppliers.

 

Also RAID 10 - I take it that's hardware RAID. What version of Windows are you running. Might be worth investing in some Intel S3700 SSD's and using software RAID (Windows Storage Spaces) if you are using 2012 or 2012R2.

[DavetheITguy]

I use HP DL380p Gen8 Servers, connected to a HP 2000 SAN in a failover cluster. with Veeam backup enterprise and Microsoft Data Protection Manager 2012. All are configured to backup the cluster to allow instant file and VM recovery. We have two massive UPS, the DL380ps have 8 x 1Gbps ports in each server, all setup in a failover fashion connected directly into the core switch. Our backbone is around 10GB so backups and recoveries are extremely quick.

[stevewill6]

From what the supplier was saying there was not much to be saved by going down to a Quad Core.

 

The biggest 2.5" SATA drives for the DL380 are 1TB apparently. If additional space is required we can add in another 8 bay drive module + Drives. We currently use about 800gb across our current servers. Not including User data.

 

Hardware Raid 10 - SSDS are not possible due to budget. Server 2012r2 is the OS

 

For UPS's we are going with CyberPower Professional 2U Rackmount LCD 2200VA / 1650W UPS. Are these UPSs any good?

[stevewill6]

Just a quick update.

 

Went ahead with the Install over the summer holidays. We bought what I listed above. All servers installed and running fine (Apart from the DL180, Motherboard failed after a month. Replaced under warranty). Server 2012r2 installed on a 100gb partition on the raid 10 array. All Physical servers decommissioned and roles added to new 2012r2 servers.

Currently managing hyper v locally on the server via RDP. Looked at 5nine hyper v manager free but the free version is a bit limited for what i wanted and i dont want to pay for more software. Waiting to upgrade my workstation to windows 10 to be able to manage it there.

 

Performance seems reasonable, haven't noticed any issues. Wish i had added extra network ports.

Veeam is very easy to use for basic functionality, but there are lots of options for more advanced features.

 

Need to look at setting up replication properly next.

[SteveM555]

We have lots of physical machines but now have 3 Hyper-V hosts and a SAN - Using a Failover Cluster in Hyper-V. When one host goes down, it gets pushed to the next available host (or a preferred one if we've set it) with no downtime.

 

Also have a backup server in another building that takes some Hyper-V replicas of our important VMs that we can fire up if the above fails for some reason. That as well as backed up VMs ready to restore (these are mixed between nightly/weekly backups)