Which Wireless - Ubiquity Unifi or Ruckus?

[JustinD1980]

Hey all, we're a medium sized secondary school looking to install a full coverage dual band wireless network that'll be around 37 - 40 WAPs.

 

Suppliers have offered both Ruckus and Ubiquiti, obviously the price difference learns towards Ubiquiti but will it cope with around 20 iPads per AP? And will the Unifi system be relatively future proof?

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Mullaney18]

I have recently been looking into this for our large primary, to deal with 3 sets of 16 ipads plus laptops connected to various wireless points at once.

 

As you probably already researched, with the low cost APs, no dedicated costly controller needed and scalabitiy with the use of thier wireless cctv, VOIP phones, high gain arieals, even controllable electric outlets, all controlled within the controller software, its a great contender to licensed wireless gear.

 

According to the spec sheets, each AP can have 200+ con current connections, and ofcourse one controller can have in theory, an unlimited amount of AP's attached to it.

 

Just from what I read, looking at the spec sheets, I'm going for the UniFi AP Pro's because, even though the UniFi AP AC has the latest wireless standards and speeds,

 

ith it being rather new, the UniFiUAP AC's doesn't support UniFi's Zero Handoff Roaming; its protocol for seemless device passing from one AP to another, where as the slighlty older brother AP Pro does.

 

UniFi's AP Wireless Specs

[Progress]

Definitely another vote for Ubiquity, I have them in 4 of my schools including a point to point unit and for the price you can't touch them.

They are easy to set up and the management and reporting software is compact and competent.

I like the upload a floorplan feature so you can have a map of the site and see if a unit is down.

I would suggest using their own tough switches though as the voltage can be different for other POE switches in which case you will need converters.

[JJanisch]

Definitely another vote for Ubiquity, I have them in 4 of my schools including a point to point unit and for the price you can't touch them.

They are easy to set up and the management and reporting software is compact and competent.

I like the upload a floorplan feature so you can have a map of the site and see if a unit is down.

I would suggest using their own tough switches though as the voltage can be different for other POE switches in which case you will need converters.

 

Bit of a thread steal but you say that Ubiquity are easy to set up, is this easy for someone who has done a lot of wireless setups before or a bit of a point and click installation / auto detect APs etc? Don't want to waste any money on 'professional' installation if it's not required.

 

Thanks

[m25man]

http://www.edugeek.net/showpost.php?p=1241524

 

Each system a has its own merits and it is hard to compare such systems on a side by side basis.

Unifi is a No Frills managed system whereas Ruckus has many proprietary professional features that Unifi simply doesn't offer.

 

As such, people tend to choose Unifi based upon cost alone.

 

If your needs simply don't require any of the other vendors specific features and you are comfortable with the community support model then Unifi meets the needs of most people's wish list.

 

If you feel that you need the specialist features offered by other vendors then you should be prepared to pay for them that's it.

[synaesthesia]

UniFi gear is LUDICROUSLY easy to set up. Once i'd installed the controller software for one of my primaries (on the bursar's PC) she has added her own AP's to it as and when she felt the need. No setup required, just plug in, start the controller software and drag it onto the map in the relevant place and click adopt.

 

And yes, in that situation I'd go UniFi over Ruckus. If it was a 1:1 school I would certainly suggest going for Ruckus or similar, a single point will cope with 3 times the amount you need and I've certainly seen higher use.

[sted]

ive used both and cant see much reason to choose one over another they both work very well. It really depends on if you have any need / ability to use the extra ruckus give you and just how many devices you want to connect to each ap the more it is the more id lean towards ruckus but ymmv.

 

one thing I will suggest though and wish id done myself is install the unifi config software on a vm then it can easily be moved to another physical box if/when needed

[IrritableTech]

ive used both and cant see much reason to choose one over another they both work very well. It really depends on if you have any need / ability to use the extra ruckus give you and just how many devices you want to connect to each ap the more it is the more id lean towards ruckus but ymmv.

 

one thing I will suggest though and wish id done myself is install the unifi config software on a vm then it can easily be moved to another physical box if/when needed

 

I've moved controller (on a small install) without any issue at home from a windows machines to a raspberry pi. Just back up from one and restore to another - the controller informs the APs of the change (I think they go through a reprovisioning state [as unifi does every time you change something major]) and then everything was fine.

 

To answer the original post, Unifi is no frills as stated. If you are looking at BYOD then ruckus comes with some clever solutions out of the box. Unifi can emulate some of it, but only when hooked up to a Radius/NPS server really.

Edited November 10, 2014 by IrritableTech

[Jobos]

With Unifi does the controller software need to be running constantly?

[sted]

With Unifi does the controller software need to be running constantly?

 

I don't think so but its not exactly a drain on resources. IIRC it only needs to be open to make changes then long enough to propagate those changes

[IrritableTech]

With Unifi does the controller software need to be running constantly?

 

Not unless you are using its captive portal. The APs hold all the other settings locally.

 

[edit] Oh and usage stats need the controller running too.

Edited November 10, 2014 by IrritableTech

[localzuk]

Ubiquity Unifi is not a "full" managed wireless system. As far as I've been able to find out it has the following flaws:

 

1. Doesn't have dynamic power adjustment based on nearby APs (an absolute must for any managed wireless system)

2. It doesn't, as yet, support 802.1x assigned VLANs/RADIUS auth in a stable release

3. The "controller" isn't a true controller - it is a centralised configuration tool, but doesn't do any actual management across access points

4. I've seen quite a few reports of poor customer service, but take that with a pinch of salt (we've all experienced bad service with everyone at some point)

5. The Ubiquiti Unifi stuff seems to perform poorly when compared with other equipment (comes bottom or second to last consistently) - this document covers it quite well http://wlanpros2.project.ihelphosting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Wi-Fi%20Stress%20Test%20Report.pdf

 

So, I'd say - be very careful when choosing.

 

We use Ruckus here and it has been flawless for, what, 5 years?

[synaesthesia]

Also be wary of data like that; those companies are paid to install certain products.

[JRowley]

You should take that report with a large pinch of salt since they only use Mac devices and it is primarily iPads they tested. Apple of course well known for adhering to wireless standards perfectly. In practice you will find that Ubiquity Unifi gives you brilliant value for money, we have a 20 AP set up which uses WPA2 Enterprise and Radius and supports around 150 clients at any given time. I don't personally believe that 1, 2 or 3 are as big an issue as localzuk is making out.

 

As with all things you should evaluate what you actually need, if it's a simple wireless system that works, is easy to set up and requires basically no on going maintenance then Unifi may be for you. If you need something sophisticated to solve a specific issue then you may need to look elsewhere. After that it's a case of how much money you want to spend.

[localzuk]

Oh, absolutely. I believe they even say in the report that it is not the best test around but gives an idea of how things perform.

 

However, report or not, the rest still stand out as major issues to me.

 

The points I raise would completely stop me buying the stuff, so I would say they're fairly important. If your environment is relatively noisy or dense, Unifi's inability to control TX power is a major problem! Issue 2 is a major issue also, as I would never use "pre-release" software on a production system. Issue 3 is neither here nor there, but to me it is indicative of why the system simply doesn't measure up to "true" enterprise solutions.

 

Support is a major issue too - I've seen a large number of people complaining of DOA APs, and multi-week RMA response times!

 

As with all kit though, it is a case of matching your requirements against the capabilities and taking into account risks. For me, it doesn't add up.

Edited November 10, 2014 by localzuk

[TronXP]

Well with 75 Unifi AP's over two sites, including outdoor points, all I can say is they work pretty well, yes they take a bit more time setting up and you have to choose TX powers etc manually but never had anybody complain about poor coverage or slow speeds. Also have to say all 75 worked from the box and so far have not failed. (We are using UAP Pros mainly).

[synaesthesia]

RE multi-week RMA's - not a surprise being US based, however there's a reason everyone recommends making sure you buy spares; with the price they are, that won't set anyone's finances back.

[localzuk]

Are you running Unifi 2 or 3 (ie. stable or pre-release)?

[JRowley]

Are you running Unifi 2 or 3 (ie. stable or pre-release)?

 

Unifi 3 is now the stable release btw, Unifi 4 is pre-release.

[TronXP]

Unifi 3 stable release we are running. Only installed it after it became stable.

[timbo343]

Been running ruckus for about 2 years now, not missed a single heartbeat. Really impressed with it.

[JustinD1980]

Thanks for the info people. Planning to get some test kit of each to see on a small scale how it functions.

 

Ruckus is coming in at twice as expensive, so leaning towards Ubiquiti. I know it's the Business Managers preference at present (no surprises there).

 

The Ubiquiti company are offering Zyxel PoE switches, so for an improved system I've asked for upgrades to HP PoE units.

[JRowley]

If you plan on using HP PoE switches, you need to make sure you are buying the right Access Points as some are not 802.3af compliant (specifically the Standard, LR and UniFi AP-Outdoor 5G are not). Those that aren't do use PoE but it's 12-24v.

[mikkydoos]

Personally, I'd go for Ruckus. Unifi are great but the Ruckus AP's are awesome. The management hardware is really powerful too.

 

40 AP's all in is going to cost you about .... dunno.... £20,000... more ?

 

Your average home router will do 20 ipads these days. Ruckus do a kind of meshing aswell to distribute bandwidth between AP's.

 

My 2p's worth would be to get Ruckus and Ubiquiti vendors in to do a full site survey and pick from there.

[januttall]

ask someone for a meru quote we have there system in our school and it is really good. no hand offs while walking round the site. and when talking to companies about Voip Phone solutions its one of the only ones there happy about due to Connection methods. and it not disconnecting Sip Phones around the building while your moving about.