localzuk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I don't think that is correct because our MS rep told us we can have windows pro licenses on the PC and then just buy CALS using the schools agreement - which is what we do. ie £1 for windows and £1.50 for CAL. MS also say it is ok to use an OEM image to re-image, so we do that too. This is a massive price increase here. Where do they say its ok to use an OEM license to re-image?! That's the exact opposite of what they've always said. You can only use the original OEM media to do the re-imaging. ie. No custom images. Microsoft Volume Licensing Brief - Reimaging Licensed Microsoft Software by Using Volume Licensing Media EDIT: Just re-read this, and realised it seems confrontational. Wasn't the intention - more alarm, and interest as it could save us money if you have a definitive MS source for it. Edited March 19, 2015 by localzuk
mjk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Where do they say its ok to use an OEM license to re-image?! That's the exact opposite of what they've always said. You can only use the original OEM media to do the re-imaging. ie. No custom images. Microsoft Volume Licensing Brief - Reimaging Licensed Microsoft Software by Using Volume Licensing Media EDIT: Just re-read this, and realised it seems confrontational. Wasn't the intention - more alarm, and interest as it could save us money if you have a definitive MS source for it. From the link you posted: OEM media (including custom OEM images) may be used to reimage devices, but only those that were originally imaged with such media. So we buy a bunch of machines, remove the bloatware, make an image, redeploy. All seems legal to me.
localzuk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) The sentence before says The OEM recoverymedia (1) should match the product version that was originally preinstalled on the system, (2) may only be used toimage devices that came with it, and (3) may not be modified prior to recovering an image to a device. Point 3 seems to discount the use of a custom image though? My reading is that the OEM would have to create the custom image for you, and supply it with the machines, rather than you being able to craft your own custom images from the OEM media. This is yet more evidence of Microsoft's licensing schemes being confusing as fudge. Edited March 19, 2015 by localzuk
sonofsanta Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 This is yet more evidence of Microsoft's licensing schemes being confusing as fudge. Microsoft: if you have to offer training courses on how people should go about giving you money in exchange for your products, You're Doing It Wrong. 2
Gibson335 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 The sentence before says Point 3 seems to discount the use of a custom image though? My reading is that the OEM would have to create the custom image for you, and supply it with the machines, rather than you being able to craft your own custom images from the OEM media. This is yet more evidence of Microsoft's licensing schemes being confusing as fudge. I'd say this was right, but then as has been mentioned, their schemes are confusing (even to their own people, let alone us end users).
mjk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Yes point three does seem to be confusing. It all seems moot now as we will all need to be paying full price for the licenses anyhow. edit: I suppose at a stretch all I would have to do to be fully complicit would be to re-image with the boatware and just deploy software via group policy or another method, perhaps with a startup script to remove anything I didn't need. Edited March 19, 2015 by mjk
localzuk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Microsoft: if you have to offer training courses on how people should go about giving you money in exchange for your products, You're Doing It Wrong. Absolutely. Microsoft, if you're reading this - you need to simplify things. There's no need for so many different licensing schemes! 1
Gibson335 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Microsoft, if you're reading this - you need to simplify things. Agreed. When consulting with them regards the use of Office on a TS a few years back, I got four different answers from four different people at Microsoft.
tmcd35 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 The answer is here: Microsoft Volume Licensing Brief - Reimaging Licensed Microsoft Software by Using Volume Licensing Media (see PDF) However - you do need to use VL media and a VL key, so you do need a VL agreement (Select/Open/EES) and purchase at least 1 qualifying VL licence through it in order to gain access to the media and key. Also bear in mind that each agreement (Select/Open/EES) also come with their own respective minimum purchase requirements so you can't really just buy 1 license, but don't necessarily have to buy 1 VL licence for every machine either. But, there are significant differences in downgrade rights between the two, and without a VL for every machine you must buy your machines with the latest OEM Pro, where VL can use any OEM Std or Pro right back to XP (I'm sure ICT Direct can do this with referbs?). 2
mjk Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks @tmcd35 That seems to be quite definitive, and does seem to indicate a 5700% price increase for non-EES customers!
tmcd35 Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks @tmcd35 That seems to be quite definitive, and does seem to indicate a 5700% price increase for non-EES customers! Seriously, I've no idea were you get 5700% from or why you think the price increase is any different for EES subscribers. All I know is everyone needs to buy Windows with the machine and everyone is getting a price increase. As for how much that increase will be? That's between you and your suppliers - maybe you need to shop around more?
mjk Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Seriously, I've no idea were you get 5700% from or why you think the price increase is any different for EES subscribers. All I know is everyone needs to buy Windows with the machine and everyone is getting a price increase. As for how much that increase will be? That's between you and your suppliers - maybe you need to shop around more? It's because we were buying OEM for £1 and now we will need to pay £57. The cost will be lightly less for EES subscribers as a percentage because they were essentially paying twice, once for the EES subscription and once for the OEM copy.
tmcd35 Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 It's because we were buying OEM for £1 and now we will need to pay £57. The cost will be lightly less for EES subscribers as a percentage because they were essentially paying twice, once for the EES subscription and once for the OEM copy. Again £57 is unlikely. OEM's, if they are shifting any type of volume, should be able to negotiate better than that with MS. And you need to ignore the EES subscription - that is an additional cost, they don't magically get computers any cheaper because they have EES. The price increase is the same for all. The only caveat is anyone with a Volume License (not just EES) does have the option of buying Home edition OEMs rather than Professional. However the saving won't be that great, especially if the OEM has got good discounts from MS - probably £1-2 per machine. I've often found Windows Pro machines of the spec I want cheaper or the same price as Windows Home machines.
mjk Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Just had a chat with out supplier and he reckons it's going to cost £40-50. So a mere 4000% increase rather than the higher number I was lead to believe.
DMcCoy Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 It's because we were buying OEM for £1 and now we will need to pay £57. The cost will be lightly less for EES subscribers as a percentage because they were essentially paying twice, once for the EES subscription and once for the OEM copy. With EES you are paying for one base license and one *upgrade* Windows volume license. You also get software assurance on the volume upgrade. There are NO full Windows desktop licenses under any volume scheme, so you need a base license of windows. Schools actually get an easy time these days with EES, and MS are very generous for education about what base Windows license can be upgraded.
mjk Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 With EES you are paying for one base license and one *upgrade* Windows volume license. You also get software assurance on the volume upgrade. There are NO full Windows desktop licenses under any volume scheme, so you need a base license of windows. Schools actually get an easy time these days with EES, and MS are very generous for education about what base Windows license can be upgraded. I think I'm starting to understand it, EES gives you the right to upgrade but only after you have purchased at the massively hiked cost. Our incumbent NM didn't bother with EES and I don't really seeing the benefit of the scheme as we will be sticking with W7 for the foreseeable future, everything we buy has W7 pro licenses already, by the time they are binned the new ones will come with w10 anyway.
tmcd35 Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 I think I'm starting to understand it, EES gives you the right to upgrade but only after you have purchased at the massively hiked cost. Our incumbent NM didn't bother with EES and I don't really seeing the benefit of the scheme as we will be sticking with W7 for the foreseeable future, everything we buy has W7 pro licenses already, by the time they are binned the new ones will come with w10 anyway. The benefits of EES, and to a lesser extent Volume Licencing in general, are multiple and is probably a good idea even if you are sticking with Windows 7. Volume Licencing give you three important rights: - Upgrade from any Windows OS post XP. Useful for old machines - Downgrade rights from any Windows OS to any previous version - Will Windows 10 machines downgrade to Windows 7? Or Windows 8.1 only? What happens when you buy a new machine with Windows 10 and want to run Windows 7? or Vista? or XP? - Imaging rights. You shouldn't use OEM editions for imaging as you can run into activation problems (been there, done that). To image you need a VL copy. Which means having a VL agreement (even if it is only for one machine) EES adds the following: - CALs. For every new machine you must always purchase CALs, they are not transferable between machines. EES effectively gets rid of this requirement. - Office. Office is transferable under both retail and Volume License, but it's included in EES and is far cheaper. - Anti-Virus. No need to buy a separate AV package. - Price based on number of staff not number of users or devices. Generally speaking EES tends to be the cheapest way to guaranty full desktop licence compliance (OS, Office, CALs, AV) on every machine, new or old, so long has you have more computers than staff. As for massively hiked cost, no. It's just a return to retail prices, the status quo as of 6 months ago. How much the increase will be will vary between manufacturer (not all were part of the scheme anyway) and models. Shop around.
edutech4schools Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Just been quoted almost £100 for Windows 8.1 pro. Last week it was a few quid.
MikeGilbert Posted April 7, 2015 Posted April 7, 2015 However the EES OVS also provides Office & Windows cals, and you'd need the CALs regardless of version of Windows OS came shipped if you want to talk to a Windows server, so swings and roundabouts OVS isn't "a" licence, it's a way of paying for various different licences. The "Desktop Edu" bundle does include Office Professional and Windows CALs, but it also includes other CALs too, *which you may not need*. The nominal discounted price is only of value if you're using all the servers to which the CALs in the Core CAL package apply. If not, it's cheaper to take separate licences for Windows Pro, Office Pro and Windows Server CAL, and even to add the Exchange CAL.
Chris_ Posted May 18, 2015 Posted May 18, 2015 Just a heads up for people who are eligible for Shape the Future licensing, Viglen/XMA are still offering StF licensing as they'd bought them in bulk beforehand. Unfortunately we're not eligible
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