Microsoft TAP = kick in the teeth for EES subscribers

[sonofsanta]

I'll be gutted/annoyed/angry if TAP has disappeared the month before we start going out for quotes on the new summer machines - careful timing by MS there, if true... looking forward to seeing some proper info on this from @Stone_Charli.

 

As to the original point: under EES I had to get an OEM sticker anyway. The OEM sticker is now £60 less. This seems like a win to me? EES also gives me the Office licences, Windows 10 when it's out without having to get all new OEM stickers, the Endpoint Protection AV licences, the SCCM CALs... it doesn't feel like an overlap or a waste at all - if anything, it feels like a winning combination (especially with Office 365 + free Office for all).

[VeryPC]

**Unfortunately, the information on Windows National Academic Licensing VeryPC was provided by Microsoft yesterday was inaccurate. To avoid confusion, this post has been removed. For the corrected version, please visit the post below:

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/licensing-questions/141968-microsoft-tap-kick-teeth-ees-subscribers-5.html#post1295296

 

Al (VeryPC Marketing)**

Edited March 18, 2015 by Dos_Box

[sonofsanta]

Thanks Al @VeryPC. In short, then, if we have the upgrade rights from EES anyway, it doesn't actually make any difference?

[Edu-IT]

Thanks @VeryPC. :-)

[VeryPC]

Thanks Al @VeryPC. In short, then, if we have the upgrade rights from EES anyway, it doesn't actually make any difference?

Yep, that's pretty much the headline for Schools.

 

Well summarised my friend!

 

Al

 

EDIT -- Be aware the change will most significantly affect anyone who does not have an EES/OVS type agreement and need Pro licences for PCs and mobile devices higher than the specs outlined above. --

Edited March 16, 2015 by VeryPC

[Edu-IT]

Hurrah! Now we can discuss Spoons.

[edutech4schools]

[TABLE=class: cms_table_grid, width: 350]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]Notebooks

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Screen Sized[/TD]

[TD]≤14.1”[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]RAM[/TD]

[TD]≤4GB[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Storage[/TD]

[TD]≤64GB SSD or eMMC or

≤500 GB HDD[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Processor (Guideline -TBC)[/TD]

[TD]Atom, Pentium[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

That is pants.

 

if I understand, my primary schools do not have a need for EES as they do not have much money but have purchased some laptops (from Very, thanks) with the academic license recently as it saved them a bit of cash.. It looks like Microsoft will not do the cheap licence with a decent machine so basically want small schools, as it's the small schools this new direction will actually effect, to either purchase cheap useless laptops or pay more for a full licence.

 

GREAT THANKS MICROSOFT for looking after the smaller schools.

[Edu-IT]

That's how it seems to come across, yes, but they've got to fund their 'Free' cloud services somehow!

 

That said, if the primary schools do get EES, then they of course get free copies of Office for staff which may be useful and go some way to justifying an EES agreement?

[StevieM]

That is pants.

 

if I understand, my primary schools do not have a need for EES as they do not have much money but have purchased some laptops (from Very, thanks) with the academic license recently as it saved them a bit of cash.. It looks like Microsoft will not do the cheap licence with a decent machine so basically want small schools, as it's the small schools this new direction will actually effect, to either purchase cheap useless laptops or pay more for a full licence.

 

GREAT THANKS MICROSOFT for looking after the smaller schools.

 

You'd get the standard version of the OS, but you'd have to pay to upgrade to Pro/Enterprise. This could be done either with EES/OVS or Select, depending on which would work out cheaper for you.

 

Going back to my original post, which appeared to court some controversy, I'd say that this system does seem a little fairer. ALL schools get a basic OS for a tiny fraction of the price. Schools who pay for an OS subscription get upgrade rights included. Those who don't can pay for an upgrade licence, which is cheaper than buying the full OS.

 

As for spoons and yoghurts, we're still using Windows 7 and will be until I know Windows 10 is stable. TAP ended up being OK for us when VeryPC became a Microsoft Named Partner. Because they were then able to give us spoons for a tiny fraction of the usual price, we ended up getting a whole suite of these luxury yoghurts (complete with the fabulous custom branding and a 5-year warranty) for the same price we were quoted for generic budget-price yoghurts.

 

The downside is, we still have another 18 months on our Windows OVS agreement and there are now only 2 PCs in the whole school that actually benefit, as we own Pro licences outright for the rest. C'est la vie!

[Boredguy]

The downside is, we still have another 18 months on our Windows OVS agreement and there are now only 2 PCs in the whole school that actually benefit, as we own Pro licences outright for the rest. C'est la vie!

 

However the EES OVS also provides Office & Windows cals, and you'd need the CALs regardless of version of Windows OS came shipped if you want to talk to a Windows server, so swings and roundabouts

[StevieM]

However the EES OVS also provides Office & Windows cals, and you'd need the CALs regardless of version of Windows OS came shipped if you want to talk to a Windows server, so swings and roundabouts

 

Nope. Our separate Office subscription and Server/CALs subscription cover those.

[Boredguy]

Nope. Our separate Office subscription and Server/CALs subscription cover those.

 

Did say swings and roundabouts

 

You either pay for it all in one group, or split it up between others. At the end of the day there is not much difference in the amount we have to pay to MS but that's life.

[StevieM]

It all made sense at the time, but hey, dems da breaks! I don't care now that we've got our lovely Pirate PCs anyway.

[Stone_Charli]

Hi guys,

 

Here's our info on the changes, which includes a bit more detail on volume licensing/upgrade rights and downloadable lists of supported processors: Changes to the Technology Access Programme | Stone Group

 

Hope this helps.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Stone_Charli

[VeryPC]

---National Academic Licensing update---

 

Unfortunately the information we were provided by Microsoft on National Academic Licensing was premature and incorrect for the UK. The corrected version follows, but the highlight is that Windows National Academic Licences are only available as PRO and only for laptops and 2-in-1 devices up to the maximum specs outlined below. There is no standard National Academic Licence available in the UK

 

PREVIOUSLY:

 

• Windows 8.1 Pro National Academic Licence was available to qualifying institutions at a tiny fraction of the usual price on all your new PCs from a Microsoft Named Partner such as VeryPC.
  
• All current VeryPC orders with the above licence will be unaffected by the new conditions outlined below.
  

 

NOW:

 

• Windows 8.1 Pro National Academic Licence is now ONLY available to qualifying institutions on laptops and 2-in-1 devices up to a maximum specification as follows:
  

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 350]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]Notebooks

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Screen Sized[/TD]

[TD]≤14.1”[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]RAM[/TD]

[TD]≤4GB[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Storage[/TD]

[TD]≤64GB SSD or eMMC or

≤500 GB HDD[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Processor (Guideline -TBC)[/TD]

[TD]Atom, Pentium[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=colspan: 2]2-in-1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Screen size[/TD]

[TD]≤12.5”[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Storage[/TD]

[TD]≤64GB SSD or eMMC or

≤500 GB HDD[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Processor (Guideline -TBC)[/TD]

[TD]Atom, Pentium, Core-M

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

• Assuming the above device conditions, the Windows 8.1 Pro National Academic licence will cost a bit more than previously. We’re not allowed to talk about specific pricing, but let’s describe it as a “small” fraction (as opposed to “tiny”) of the usual price.
  

 

As ever, qualification for National Academic licensing depends upon the following conditions:

 

• Licence must be part of a device (as outlined above) supplied by a Microsoft Named Partner, such as VeryPC.
  
• Your educational establishment must be at least 50% government funded.
  
• Your student age range must be between 5-19
  

 

If you need further clarification, feel free to call us on 0845 0345 017 or 0114 321 8609 (choose option 1 for sales/product enquiries) or email us on [email protected]. We’ll be happy to answer your questions until you feel completely comfortable with your position.

 

Al (VeryPC Marketing)

Edited March 18, 2015 by VeryPC

[Stone_Charli]

Similarly, we have also amended our original post regarding the changes: Changes to the Technology Access Programme | Stone Group

[tmcd35]

Sooo, unless you are in the market for an underpowered laptop, it's all back to the status quo before TAP was introduced?

[VeryPC]

Thanks Al @VeryPC. In short, then, if we have the upgrade rights from EES anyway, it doesn't actually make any difference?

 

Yep, that's pretty much the headline for Schools.

 

Well summarised my friend!

 

Al

 

EDIT -- Be aware the change will most significantly affect anyone who does not have an EES/OVS type agreement and need Pro licences for PCs and mobile devices higher than the specs outlined above. --

@sonofsanta Nope it all changed. The info we were given was incorrect. I have removed the earlier post and replaced with the following which basically expains that National Academic licences are just Windows Pro and only for laptops and 2-in-1 devices up to the max spec shown:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/licensing-questions/141968-microsoft-tap-kick-teeth-ees-subscribers-5.html#post1295313

 

Al

[sonofsanta]

Oh you are absolutely $*%£ing me. What the hell are they doing? Why? WHY?

 

All my budgeting for this year's replacement stock was based on the savings from TAP; a sudden cost jump of 20% per machine has completely scuppered me.

 

And to do it immediately! If they'd given a month's notice I'd have done my purchasing now, but to do it immediately is appalling.

 

Please do pass on my immense disappointment and frustration to the idiots at Microsoft who have gone about this in this way. The decision is theirs to make, fair enough, but they should have some understanding of how school budgets/projects work to know better than to make last minute changes like this.

[StevieM]

You beat me to it, @sonofsanta. I'm not so much annoyed that Microsoft have stopped giving away something that they have every right to charge for, it's the fact that the didn't tell anyone - even their so called partners - in advance. Suppliers had to jump through all kinds of hoops to be able to take part in the Technology Access Program, only to have it rebranded as the Considerably Reduced Access Program shortly afterwards.

 

Going back to the original topic, it will be interesting to see how many suppliers of cheap yoghurts will suddenly be able to 'absorb' some of the cost of spoons now they have to pay for them again.

[edutech4schools]

Just had the bursar at one of my primary schools saying they might as well give chromebooks a go as the jump in MS licencing has altered the sweet spot that they were aiming for.

 

Most of my schools had started to look at Google a while back but switched back to MS when they were able to buy a laptop + Windows Pro for not much more than a chromebook.

 

This change in price is going to effect schools on a really tight budget that could not front up the costs of an EES agreement in the first place and push them to alternatives.

[mjk]

Oh you are absolutely $*%£ing me. What the hell are they doing? Why? WHY?

 

All my budgeting for this year's replacement stock was based on the savings from TAP; a sudden cost jump of 20% per machine has completely scuppered me.

 

And to do it immediately! If they'd given a month's notice I'd have done my purchasing now, but to do it immediately is appalling.

 

Please do pass on my immense disappointment and frustration to the idiots at Microsoft who have gone about this in this way. The decision is theirs to make, fair enough, but they should have some understanding of how school budgets/projects work to know better than to make last minute changes like this.

 

If you think it is bad for EES subscribers have it bad, just think of non-EES subscribers. We were paying £1 per license for windows and now we pay £57.

 

5700% increase ???

[tmcd35]

If you think it is bad for EES subscribers have it bad, just think of non-EES subscribers. We were paying £1 per license for windows and now we pay £57.

 

5700% increase ???

 

The price for EES and non-EES is the same and always has been. To be properly licensed you should have an OEM license with the PC, a Volume Licences for upgrade/downgrade/imaging, and CALs. At worst EES/VL purchase an shave a few ££'s by buying Std instead of Pro, while those making do without any VL pretty much always need to make sure they get Pro included.

 

Also, as I pointed out in another thread - I'd be shocked if most system builders turning over any kind of volume are paying any where near £50 for an OEM license. Tier 1 manufacturers probably have the cost well under £10 per machine anyway.

[mjk]

The price for EES and non-EES is the same and always has been. To be properly licensed you should have an OEM license with the PC, a Volume Licences for upgrade/downgrade/imaging, and CALs. At worst EES/VL purchase an shave a few ££'s by buying Std instead of Pro, while those making do without any VL pretty much always need to make sure they get Pro included.

 

Also, as I pointed out in another thread - I'd be shocked if most system builders turning over any kind of volume are paying any where near £50 for an OEM license. Tier 1 manufacturers probably have the cost well under £10 per machine anyway.

 

I don't think that is correct because our MS rep told us we can have windows pro licenses on the PC and then just buy CALS using the schools agreement - which is what we do. ie £1 for windows and £1.50 for CAL. MS also say it is ok to use an OEM image to re-image, so we do that too. This is a massive price increase here.

[tmcd35]

I don't think that is correct because our MS rep told us we can have windows pro licenses on the PC and then just buy CALS using the schools agreement - which is what we do. ie £1 for windows and £1.50 for CAL. MS also say it is ok to use an OEM image to re-image, so we do that too. This is a massive price increase here.

 

Sorry, my bad - I tried to cover that off with the 'At worst' sentence - but probably fudged what I was trying to say.

 

The £1 for Windows is a recent thing, and it's gone back to what it was before. At worst the difference between EES/VL and they way you operate is potentially the difference in cost to the OEM for Std vs Pro Windows. The point is EVERYONE needs to buy an OEM copy of Windows with their machines so EVERYONE has the same price increase, which really shouldn't be anywhere near £57.

 

The answer - revise your spec and push your suppliers harder on their quotes.