CC4 to Windows Network Project Plan - All advice useful

[tj2419]

Hi

 

I am about to embark this year on a new daunting but exciting project. After many years wanting to move from CC4 to windows i have finally been given the time to do a feasibility study, test and plan.

 

Aim

To see if going to a windows network offers a better service to our school network users. Whether it is cheaper for us and how it would be to manage.

 

Background

We are currently a CC4 school with around 400 desktops, 80 laptops and iPads. We have around 1000 students and 130 staff. We have three CC4 servers with users split across them. We have a team of three technicians (Network Manager, Ast Network Manager and IT Technician) plus an apprentice soon.

 

I have seen on here a number of people who have carried out a similar project.

 

I was wondering if anyone could help with the following questions? I think edugeek is going to become even more of a friend this year

 

1. Does anyone have any plans or project proposals given to SLT etc from carrying out a similar project to help me plan it out from where to start testing etc?
   
2. Alternative softwares to carry out similar functions e.g. RM Tutor, Startup and shutdown schedules, Delivering acceptable use policies to the computers when users log in
   
3. Rough timeframe from people who have done it previously? I am aiming to carry it out over next summer if all goes well.
   
4. Any tips, strategies or pitholes to avoid?
   
5. Places for good information (Apart from here)
   
6. Any good AD tools for bulk creating users and managing changes to them
   
7. I can't get my head around how we would copy over documents and profiles? Would we give them new profiles?
   

 

The Idea (Very fluid at the minute, forgive any mistakes )

 

Move to new server hardware.

Move to server 2012 with windows 7 on all desktops.

Use MDT and WDS to create / and deploy images.

Group policy to deploy none standard software.

 

I'm sure this is just the start of my questions

Edited September 2, 2014 by tj2419
Add additional information

[Jasbo]

Are you planning to repurpose severs or move to new? second option makes life a lot easier.

[tj2419]

To move to new.

 

That would be part of my backup plan that if it went catastrophically wrong we could plug the old servers back in.

[Edu-IT]

Point 2, look at Impero, NetSupport, AB Tutor to name a few.

 

You would start with fresh user accounts I'd say but transfer documents over using a script.

[clareq]

I've just done it - we now have a virtualised Server 2012 r2 network, with SCCM for building and package deployment, Impero primarily to replace RMTutor, though it's power management features are great too, and it does AUP delivery, and limits logons, and Salamander to auto import users from SIMS and set up e-mail accounts.

I started work on setting up the new domain round about last Easter, recreating all packages and building images for deployment. The advantage of SCCM is that we can create "fat" images, with most software already installed, and just a few small bits of software added during the Task Sequences.

I copied over Documents once the users had been created, and recreated the T and W drives, using security groups to set permissions. I've not moved over profiles - they contain too much of RM, and they will recreate easily (I've only included roaming profiles for staff, students have a redirected AppData, but only use local profiles).

We have about 1300 workstations, of which about 500 are laptops, and nearly 2000 users. We started moving the workstations across this Summer, and have successfully rebuilt the whole domain this Summer. Admin staff started using the system week 3 of the holidays, and teachers have been back for 2 days. The main helpdesk calls we've had have been printer mapping and drive permissions I'd missed - networks grow organically, and it's easy to miss the odd bit you set up for someone five years ago.

It's been a steep learning curve, and exhausting at times. Fortunately the SLT know there will be teething problems, and not everything will work perfectly day 1. Give yourself as much time as possible in the R&D stage, that's where the real work is done, long before you build a single workstation.

[Jasbo]

When we did this we built up new domain on new hardware and tested during term time. We had a third party come in and supply/build a virtualisation host and storage system for this. So we could clone vms from production and test migration options and do test builds of new services etc, by the start of the summer we had most server stuff ready to go.

 

This allowed us to get everything ready for using WDS/MDT to deploy our desktop images and setup all gpo etc for desktops, then come the summer we had plans in place to migrate or rebuild severs/services and we used basic robo copy scripts to migrate use date to new home servers on new domain once everything was done.

 

I wouldn't say it was easy but I do think it was worth it to allow the school to develop services that it wanted and it made us become better technicians and in turn be better skilled to support our school and network, IMHO. With the normal caveat that I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with working on CC4 etc if that's what works for you I was a cc3 guy for a looooong time.

 

Pre staging your hardware and doing desktop prep with a migration over a summer is very feasible. We did that as well as other large projects - re cabling, copier deployment, 500 new desktops etc in one summer.

 

Are you running your cc4 stuff on virtual or physical?

[tj2419]

@clareq

Thanks, So if i'm understanding you right with SCCM you can deploy software almost like CC4?

@Jasbo

Thanks, we are all physical at the minute. Don't think our budget would allow for the likes of hyper-V or VMWare. What's your opinion on building it on the open source citrix xen Server?

 

With imaging with SCCM or MDT do you need to have a different image for each model of computer on your network or can you have a standard one and it picks up the drivers for each model separately?

[clareq]

Almost, but it does more that CC4 - you can deploy by msi, exe, script and other methods I'm forgetting. Software can be required or available - you can provide a web page for users to choose what software they want to add - not that we do!

 

You can build either way - you an assign drivers to a particular model machine, or allow the drivers to be available for any machine.

[Norphy]

SCCM software deployment is so much more powerful than CC's, it's not funny. But that's just scratching the surface of the product.

 

You can have a single image to cover all of your hardware but that isn't a SCCM or MDT thing, that's built into Windows Vista or above

 

Regarding Hyper-v, that's a feature of Windows Server these days. You get some pretty powerful clustering and load balancing features out of the box. And iirc System Centre is just one licence these days so if you get SCCM, you get SCVMM as well which is good if you want better management of your HyperV VMs

Edited September 2, 2014 by Norphy

[bossman]

Almost, but it does more that CC4 - you can deploy by msi, exe, script and other methods I'm forgetting.

 

You can build either way - you an assign drivers to a particular model machine, or allow the drivers to be available for any machine.

 

 

But can't you do this in RMCC4?

[Jasbo]

We use xen server hp machines as our hosts, there's 3 of them on shared storage. Have found it to be very reliable. I pay the licenses for support and features, but I use the free one at home, I wouldn't want the hassle at school though tbh.

 

As someone said, if your getting new servers I would look at running hyperv on the server os - or look at the hyperv server only os - still free I believe. It used to be that you could buy windows data centre licenses for unlimited hyperv hosts on that box, but not sure if the that's the case with 2012/r2 still, but with academic costs that's a pretty cheap option if it is.

 

Sounds like planning your host infrastructure should be one of your starting points? IMHO staying physical, especially if your investing in new hardware now wouldn't be a good idea both in terms of the speed and flexibility you will get for testing and setting up your new network and for the long term management.