featured_spectre Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 One caveat though - if you are using them on .local domain - all bets are off. Don't do that. Really. If you have a .local domain and aren't willing to change it, best to not even bother with Macs in particular, but Apple gear in general. You are creating a rod for your own back. Use ANYTHING other than a .local domain and it is smooth sailing. Like night and day. I do suspect the common use of "best practice" .local domains are the big cause of a many of the gripes about Apple I hear on here. So, I repeat. If you have a .local domain and won't/can't change it be prepared for pain. Don't blame the Apple gear for that pain though. Apple themselves and any Apple-savvy tech will tell you to never use .local domains. If my Unix servers, Linux Servers, and Windows servers can all function perfectly well on a .local domain, why can't an apple server? I am genuinely curious on this.
mac_shinobi Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 If my Unix servers, Linux Servers, and Windows servers can all function perfectly well on a .local domain, why can't an apple server? I am genuinely curious on this. I thought apple used .local for bonjour stuff which conflicts with.local windows domains etc @antonnioRocco can confirm for sure exactly the issue
featured_spectre Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Than that is an Apple fault. Best practice has been around since the days of unix/linux servers to use .local for many servers, so they should really have known that before making bonjour use it!
mac_shinobi Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Than that is an Apple fault. Best practice has been around since the days of unix/linux servers to use .local for many servers, so they should really have known that before making bonjour use it! Im guessing but am sure someone else can confirm
SYNACK Posted June 6, 2014 Author Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) I was referring more to this Jeremy Clarkson: 'execute' public sector workers, says BBC Top Gear host - Telegraph Not me but I am prone to expressing my opinion and view political correctness as a truly bad thing contributing to the decline of western 'civilisation'. If my Unix servers, Linux Servers, and Windows servers can all function perfectly well on a .local domain, why can't an apple server? I am genuinely curious on this. Agreed, but it is Apple, I'm sure they invented it only ten years after everyone else started using it. For reference our domain is not .local either, the hardware seems to be fine and the mac mini still runs like a 486. 10.whatever.3 hosed it completely and as its a server I am not keen on rebuilding the whole thing just because Apple finally got around to releasing a hotfix. It is still slow as anything under a different user and my old Pentium M (installed to Windows 7) tablet outperforms it for web browsing. @seawolf As to the strong EM field, maybe I do, the macs in the library seem to be alright but this mac mini and these ipads are just junk. Apple is zero help and their devices couldn't provide enough useful feedback to track down anything. Just because it does not generate an error doent mean that its working, just that it is not bothing to tell you anything useful as that might confuse someone somewhere. Also no error means they can just blame everything else with no real proof. As someone else said, possibly on a different thread, their experience turned to hell when they put ios 7.11 on as it suddenly needed to phone home to apple to connect to wireless, no internet, no wireless. The response from someone to this was that obviously everyone else was doing it wrong and they should just let Apple access whatever it wanted. This non-standard behaviour broke stuff for no good reason and then the blame is shifted to the victims by the bully. A windows machine may try a DNS lookup to see if it can get net but won't disable the connection if it can't. This is yet more pointless idiocy just to make things harder despite their just works façade. If they could just stop being toolbags for a few seconds each year it would be lovely. Edited June 6, 2014 by SYNACK
seawolf Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Than that is an Apple fault. Best practice has been around since the days of unix/linux servers to use .local for many servers, so they should really have known that before making bonjour use it! How can I say this as kindly as possible? Perhaps by saying that zeal without knowledge is not good. .local has never been a good idea for many reasons. I have worked on UNIX networks since before the first web browser existed and I can't remember a single one using .local so I don't know where you got that idea from. Here's but one article as to why. Just because everybody and their uninformed brother does something doesn't make it a well thought out plan. Why you shouldn't use .local in your Active Directory domain name. 1
seawolf Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Agreed, but it is Apple, I'm sure they invented it only ten years after everyone else started using it. RFC 3927 is an industry standard contributed to by Sun, Apple, and Microsoft. Have a read. Zero-configuration networking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Apple is zero help and their devices couldn't provide enough useful feedback to track down anything. Microsoft has never been great help in my experience either, but that doesn't stop most people. Macs do provide quite a lot of useful feedback in the log files, but of course you have know what you are looking at (console logs, safari debugging mode, etc). This applies more to Macs than iPads, which are a bit tight lipped about what's going on under the hood as a result of the sand boxing, etc. You know, I run into issues with Windows servers and clients (and other people's software) on a regular basis, but I don't feel the need to damn Microsoft to oblivion every time something stuffs up (sometimes Windows stuffs up quite majestically). It is quite interesting to watch the meltdowns occurring from the cheese being moved. 1
featured_spectre Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 That article is correct for single named like server.local however some companies and professionals who have been dealing with servers since the early 80s (before I was born) using Unix and DOS did use server.company.local and have done since. I worked in an environment (IBM in London) where a small handful of these legacy servers are running still due to some old legacy system still in place and work seamlessly with other Unix/Linux/Nt based servers. Hell IBM, Intel and Novell all did manuals (old school ring binders which were as thick as my palm) which said it was best to use the .Local domains. Many have since said if doing single side ones don't use it but if doing more then it's best practice. I may even have one of these manuals at my mums. When I go round on Sunday I'll have a hunt for it.
caffrey Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I'm starting to get the impression that Synack really really doesn't like iPads
seawolf Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 That article is correct for single named like server.local however some companies and professionals who have been dealing with servers since the early 80s (before I was born) using Unix and DOS did use server.company.local and have done since. I worked in an environment (IBM in London) where a small handful of these legacy servers are running still due to some old legacy system still in place and work seamlessly with other Unix/Linux/Nt based servers. Hell IBM, Intel and Novell all did manuals (old school ring binders which were as thick as my palm) which said it was best to use the .Local domains. Many have since said if doing single side ones don't use it but if doing more then it's best practice. I may even have one of these manuals at my mums. When I go round on Sunday I'll have a hunt for it. Really? You're going to continue to believe its a good idea, and that using something like my.company.local makes a difference from company.local? If you want to use local.company.com that will work just fine, but even MS cautions strongly against domains ending in .local Selecting the Forest Root Domain But, go ahead and do what you want. Good luck finding the 30 year old official doco from IBM, etc. that recommends this practice.
SYNACK Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 RFC 3927 is an industry standard contributed to by Sun, Apple, and Microsoft. Have a read. Zero-configuration networking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That I had actually come across before but the point is rather that Apple is the only lot that is truly stuffed up by it, the others manage fine. Microsoft has never been great help in my experience either, but that doesn't stop most people. Macs do provide quite a lot of useful feedback in the log files, but of course you have know what you are looking at (console logs, safari debugging mode, etc). This applies more to Macs than iPads, which are a bit tight lipped about what's going on under the hood as a result of the sand boxing, etc. You know, I run into issues with Windows servers and clients (and other people's software) on a regular basis, but I don't feel the need to damn Microsoft to oblivion every time something stuffs up (sometimes Windows stuffs up quite majestically). It is quite interesting to watch the meltdowns occurring from the cheese being moved. Windows had the event log, a nice organized place to keep information as opposed to the throw it anywhere mentality of the Linux/BSD/Unix/whatever base of OSX. It is just cleaner and more civilized. As to Windows melting down I have simply never come across meltdowns that opaque on a PC, something somewhere will generally tell you what's up and a single main line update is seriously unlikely to hose the whole system. Additionally if you look it up online there are hundreds of places you can usually find the answer, with a Mac you might find some outdated documentation on Apples site and possibly some yet to be redacted solution in their forums as they wipe most of the solutions that make them look bad. With a Mac you are fighting on two fronts, against the fault and Apple who want to cover up all mentions of any faults ever on their platform. You can always ring their ever polite but mostly pointless helpdesk for some platitudes to tide you over till you buy a new 'working' mac or give up, wipe the lot, reinstall and hope the same thing does not happen another month down the line.
SYNACK Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 I'm starting to get the impression that Synack really really doesn't like iPads Good, I was thinking I may not have been putting my point across strongly enough
SYNACK Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 Oops, it appears I have made a mess again, count this as me signing out of the debate, my views have not changed and I think needed to be expressed publicly to Apple but it may have gone a bit off track along the way into an Apple vs the world debate. Hopefully this thread will die down a little without me blowing on the fire. I really should know better. My bad.
Brimstone Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Than that is an Apple fault. Best practice has been around since the days of unix/linux servers to use .local for many servers, so they should really have known that before making bonjour use it! It was only best practice for private servers that do not need to resolve to DNS and at best was used before the internet arrived, now here are plenty of other technologies not just Apple that will conflict with servers using a .local domain. There are many Linux distros that also include Bonjour
Brimstone Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 I'm disappointed with how this thread is turning as well, I'd much rather be helping, I'm out
localzuk Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Windows had the event log, a nice organized place to keep information as opposed to the throw it anywhere mentality of the Linux/BSD/Unix/whatever base of OSX. It is just cleaner and more civilized. I'm not Apple fan, but the logging in Posix based systems is far superior to Windows. The rule is everything goes in /var/log. Simple. The logs are text files, and when rotated are gzipped text files. Meaning you can have a super simple long term logging system with pretty much zero effort. Windows can't do that with event viewer. On top of that, you can specify a remote "syslog" server with *nix systems and centralise the whole lot easily. Windows certainly can't do that either. So, on the logging front, Mac OS and other *nix systems win hands down. As to Windows melting down I have simply never come across meltdowns that opaque on a PC, something somewhere will generally tell you what's up and a single main line update is seriously unlikely to hose the whole system. Additionally if you look it up online there are hundreds of places you can usually find the answer, with a Mac you might find some outdated documentation on Apples site and possibly some yet to be redacted solution in their forums as they wipe most of the solutions that make them look bad. With a Mac you are fighting on two fronts, against the fault and Apple who want to cover up all mentions of any faults ever on their platform. You can always ring their ever polite but mostly pointless helpdesk for some platitudes to tide you over till you buy a new 'working' mac or give up, wipe the lot, reinstall and hope the same thing does not happen another month down the line. I've experience this sort of support call with Apple. I had an iMac of my own at one point and the magic mouse at the time was a massively flawed design (the scroll ball got gunked up super quick and stopped working with no real way to clean it). It was within its initial warranty but the call to their support line demanded that I had AppleCare or hand them credit card details before they'd do anything. It took an hour of arguing and an eventual threat of my taking them to court for them to deal with it like they were legally required to do so.
Arthur Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 On top of that, you can specify a remote "syslog" server with *nix systems and centralise the whole lot easily. Windows certainly can't do that either. Windows has event forwarding? Does that not count? http://tutorial.programming4.us/windows_7/forwarding-events-(part-1)---how-to-configure-event-forwarding-in-ad-ds-domains.aspx http://blog.netnerds.net/2013/03/centralizing-windows-events-using-a-collector-initiated-subscription
jayemm Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 We are a 1:1 'scale' deployment of iPads. I agree with various comments that have been made here. We find it easy to manage the devices using our MDM, we like pushing apps out to pupils and staff, but giving them the ability and freedom to install other things too. BUT, I have found the following niggles with the whole process: * useful features are released in US first before UK and often take time to get here, VPP took a while to get here, initially we had to send codes out, at least we can now use VPP and MDM to push them * Over the Air supervision and Apple ID for students programs are only available in US at present, they need to come to UK. * The fact that initially VPP only allowed bulk gifting of apps, and we bought a couple of apps for all 200 staff and 1050 pupils and now they have the licensed variety that you can recall and redistribute. * When you say to the MDM provider that you would like 'this' feature or 'that' feature their response is usually that 'Apple dont allow that' or 'it is coming in the next release' * we had to write a guide to explain how to create an apple ID that does not use a credit or debit card from the start, to avoid adding and removing one. * the fact that with MDMs and tracking location of iPads appears to only with with cellular iPads and not with WiFi only ones. and * the numerous issues we now get when an iPad is locked to an Apple ID, great security but a pain to remove if you have a damaged device or one handed back when a pupil leaves. Don't get me wrong, they are great and get used in many ways but there are niggles on the way!
CHR1S Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Sorry all, was there a solution to the debit card required for new accounts issue? Currently banging my head on a wall for not making note of it!
SYNACK Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Sorry all, was there a solution to the debit card required for new accounts issue? Currently banging my head on a wall for not making note of it! Making a new account in a non-signed in iTunes to 'purchase' a free app apparently does it although I have never managed it, the other way that showed up after I gave up on apple stuff was signing into iCloud first then itunes and getting a free app. Only half an hour per each one of the aIDs. I'll be quiet now before I reignite the thread with my limitless dislike of Apple everything. Edited June 11, 2014 by SYNACK 2
CHR1S Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 FFS... got my techie on it now, Apple have not thought this through at all!
mthomas08 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 FFS... got my techie on it now, Apple have not thought this through at all! To be fair, neither did M$ when Schools were introducing the first lot of IT Systems. Nor does Google with their current products. Maybe in a few years time from all the screaming and shouting they too will improve like M$ had to. The amount of flame wars accusing M$ of being very poorly built for Schools used to be endless. Now those flames are shifting against Apple/Android. I remember when people used to go mad at the cost of volume licenses and having to spend a lot of money just to keep their systems updated with the latest OS. Now its spend a bit less to always have access to the latest (sometimes more too) software. They also got their act together in building an OS which didn't require buying a new PC.. (ahh... vista...such a .. OS..)
edutech4schools Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 To be fair, neither did M$ when Schools were introducing the first lot of IT Systems. Nor does Google with their current products. Not 100% sure what you are replying about but Android do let you access the Play Store without a credit card, they also let others adjust the OS like LearnPad and others do, so you can very easily push apps etc out without any fuss what so ever.
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