Who does your network cabling??

[e_g_r]

How exactly does Cat5E kill people? What are they going to do, eat it and choke on it?

 

If its not low smoke zero halogen and you have a fire - death by gas

[knthrak]

Incorrect segregation of cable across multiple phased zones can create a difference of potential between devices which means 415V is potentially present under a fault condition.

 

Additionally all network cables should now be Low smoke, zero halogen to prevent death from fumes in fire situations.

[FN-GM]

Just a question were do we draw the line when the building regs come to force? If you make a simple patch cable that wouldn’t need it would it, but if you had a socket and then a RJ45 plug on the other end that wouldn't. What if you tack the cable to the skirting board if the socket is a few meters away from the computer. Is it when you screw the box to the wall, if that’s the case is everything you screw on the wall eg a hook for a clock got to meet building regulations? I am not being sarcastic or anything but it seems to be a gray area.

[enjay]

Just a question were do we draw the line when the building regs come to force? ... Is it when you screw the box to the wall, if that’s the case is everything you screw on the wall eg a hook for a clock got to meet building regulations? I am not being sarcastic or anything but it seems to be a gray area.

Unless you have a very broad job description, that's the caretaker's/site supervisor's grey area not yours, so personally I wouldn't worry too much about it :-)

[FN-GM]

Well i know but im just abit curious

[knthrak]

Building regs are more concerned with installation and modification of the building. ie, lighting, ventilation, power and ancillary supplies.

Electrical regs are a specific area concerned with the electrical aspects of a build. patch cables and picture hooks are not part of this scope.

[FN-GM]

righty ho

[seacider]

LSZH is a good idea, however what about all the existing PVC cables both data and mains that are not. It is also a lovely purple colour!

[e_g_r]

I'm sure that insurers will begin to look at this and insist that they are removed or delt with, a bit like asbestos.

 

Another question for DIYers. what precautions do you take ref asbestos? Air tests to backup your school survey? Masks and white suits. What about MDF and fibre insulation?

[Jake]

I think the major problem with this thread , as a whole, is that its become embroiled in too many "blacks and whites".

 

Personally I have been laying datacables in some form or another for nearly 15 years now, across multiple schools (and yes knthrak I am fully aware of the low smoke and multiple phase zones), and frankly I would quite readily put the quality of one of my installations up against the quality of a "professional" installation.

 

I guess what I am saying is that, like many things, its not always quite so black and white. In theory, a certified installer *should* be of a better standard than a non-certified installer. However, that simply isnt always the case. Sometimes a non-certified person can do a better job than some certified folks, and likewise some non-certified folks simply dont do as good a job as some certified folks.

 

In a way its akin to MS certifications..over the years I have met some people who have MS certifications out of their ears, yet have been simply terrible at their job and not known their way around a network, on the other hand I have known some people who have an extensive knowledge and ability, yet dont hold a certificate in diddly.

 

Thats just my opinion on it anyway, I just dont see things in black and white. I have no certifications in anything...nothing at all. Nothing to do with servers, yet I maintain wodgefuls of them, nothing to do with cabling, yet I have done it for nigh on 15 years, and in my opinion, to an exceptional standard (far better for instance than one of the , quite well known, contractors around here who installed an entire suite of a local school yet only bothered to connect 2 of the pairs in each network point, which only further highlights my point about certifications and qualifications), I have no certifications in power tools, or ladder climbing, or putting up shelves, or hanging a corkboard, or using AD, or installing a moodle server, or setting up an exchange server, or swapping out a faulty network card, or hard drive, or memory, or installing an operating system..yet I am equally assured of the quality and standard of what I do every working day of the year. Whats more, I would stand what I do up against anyone with a certificate in any of those things.

 

Sometimes having a piece of paper to wave , isnt a sign of quality, as Neville Chamberlain found out to his regret

 

(then again, sometimes it is....thats the anti-black and white effect )

[enjay]

Another question for DIYers. what precautions do you take ref asbestos? Air tests to backup your school survey? Masks and white suits. What about MDF and fibre insulation?

We had an external company come round recently and do a full asbestos survey. We use this when planning any work in-house and any contractors we have on site can see this if they ask, although typically they just accept our word for it that its clear (if they are working anywhere near it, we specifically tell them about it and walk them round exactly where it is).

[e_g_r]

I agree that just becasue someone is certified it dosn't mean that they are any better. Last IT training i had was for Novell 4

 

Contrators are only bad because in the past we have let them.

 

I'm sure your installs are A1 and i would not dis them. My question was how sure are we that what we do is A1 and correct.

 

I only speak through bitter experience at my current school. Something that is now being changed at no small cost (100K to be precise)

[knthrak]

I agree with what you are saying to a point.

Certification does not guarantee good workmanship or professional standards of work being maintained. What it does give you is protection against litigation. A company working to the standards is bound by contract and required by law to comply with these standards and opens themselves up to prosecution if they don't.

 

I'm not questioning your abilities or your workmanship. However, without training in the relevant areas how can you ever know that any of your work is compliant or indeed safe.

 

I have personally seen devices wired incorrectly that have worked for years though they were in fact lethal.

[Jake]

I'm sure your installs are A1 and i would not dis them. My question was how sure are we that what we do is A1 and correct.

 

I like to think so , in my case, I guess its down to a combination of thorough research, plenty of care, practice and experience. I would think that a good guideline though would be , if in any doubt, dont attempt it. Again, as with many things in life...like skiing...or putting up that shed in the garden which you bought last summer but just never quite got round to

[Jake]

I'm not questioning your abilities or your workmanship. However, without training in the relevant areas how can you ever know that any of your work is compliant or indeed safe.

 

I can see where you are coming from..the worrying thing for me , on a personal level, is that as I say, I dont have that training in anything I do at all...either hardware related, software related, server related, or cabling related. Along those lines of worry, I shouldnt even really be doing the job I have done for the last 15 years. (EDIT : not just done, but done extremely well, at least thats what I am told...hell, does one good to stroke ones own ego from time to time)

 

I always knew I should have been a tester of bananas to make sure they were straight enough to meet EU regulations !! (certainly would have been alot less stressful...although those green ones can be a bit aggressive at times !)

[e_g_r]

Bananas Should be streight

 

Yeah Skiing - looks easy, read up about it but nearly got myself killed

[Jake]

Yeah Skiing - looks easy, read up about it but nearly got myself killed

 

Damn good fun though ! Only thing that has come close for me is scuba diving. Not as much fun, but much more fascinating

 

(.....though I am not certified to do either ...... . )

[e_g_r]

Another question for DIYers. what precautions do you take ref asbestos? Air tests to backup your school survey? Masks and white suits. What about MDF and fibre insulation?

We had an external company come round recently and do a full asbestos survey. We use this when planning any work in-house and any contractors we have on site can see this if they ask, although typically they just accept our word for it that its clear (if they are working anywhere near it, we specifically tell them about it and walk them round exactly where it is).

 

we have a survey but a professional firm will carry out air tests in the area where they work just in case the survey missed something or structural movements have dislogged some asbestos.

 

at my last school we had ceiling tiles that were sealed but if disturbed could shed dust.

[e_g_r]

Jake!

 

Certified at not being certified

[Jake]

Lol....been thinking lately that I might try and take my certification in Letching and Leering at Women.

 

Now...if I could just find someone to revise my Practical exam on....*goes off to see if WITCH is in the building*

[knthrak]

Acquired real life knowledge from the field always carries more weight than a spoon fed classroom education in my opinion but that does not mean that acquired knowledge is bang on the nose every time.

 

Often people develop there own way of doing things based on what they have seen and done and never know why it is done that particular way therefore they never realise just how that method could be totally wrong when other factors are introduced. I have seen it many times, people believe they are right when everything they think they know as fact is actually only half right.

 

A little bit of knowledge is dangerous.

[FN-GM]

Lol....been thinking lately that I might try and take my certification in Letching and Leering at Women.

 

Jakes at it again!

[enjay]

Another question for DIYers. what precautions do you take ref asbestos? Air tests to backup your school survey? Masks and white suits. What about MDF and fibre insulation?

We had an external company come round recently and do a full asbestos survey. We use this when planning any work in-house and any contractors we have on site can see this if they ask, although typically they just accept our word for it that its clear (if they are working anywhere near it, we specifically tell them about it and walk them round exactly where it is).

 

we have a survey but a professional firm will carry out air tests in the area where they work just in case the survey missed something or structural movements have dislogged some asbestos.

 

at my last school we had ceiling tiles that were sealed but if disturbed could shed dust.

Well, if the contractor wishes to do their own survey, they are of course more than welcome to do that - that's their call, at the end of the day.

 

In your ceiling tile example, we would specifically advise any workers in that area that the tiles were made of asbestos, but were fine if left undisturbed. That just strikes me as the responsible thing to do, morally if not legally.

[bonjour]

...I have the same things to do that you have to do...

 

Not being funny, mate, but how on earth do you know that?

[tech_guy]

Lol....been thinking lately that I might try and take my certification in Letching and Leering at Women.

 

Jakes at it again!

 

Oh, I've done that course - I passed it with flying colours 8O