elsiegee40 Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 I was wondering if that was the case. My response would be to pass it through to those members of the SLG who deal it hit and let them worry Only establishments spending tax payers money are subject to FoI. So government departments, councils, schools, prisons, etc must comply. Independent schools are spending the money of their parents, the fee payers, so definitely do not have to comply. Interestingly, one of the worst offenders for failure to comply is the DfE.... Tut tut Mr Gove!
Ephelyon Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I'm inclined to come back to the words of the man who created the Freedom of Information Act, and/or allowed it to be created. "For political leaders, it's like saying to someone who is hitting you over the head with a stick, 'Hey, try this instead', and handing them a mallet." "If you are trying to take a difficult decision and you're weighing up the pros and cons, you have frank conversations... and if those conversations then are put out in a published form that afterwards are liable to be highlighted in particular ways, you are going to be very cautious. That's why it's not a sensible thing." As much as I'm not a fan of Blair, he did have the guts to talk about it this way after the fact. He did have the guts to acknowledge the burden this Act places on all manner of institutions, and to recognise the damage it would do and has done. This Act was passed to allow the public to hold institutions who manage the expenditure of public money to account. There had never been anything like it before (to my knowledge). However, it has been almost universally acknowledged, since then, that it's often not "the public" who use it, and consequently it's often not used in the proper spirit. The previous government - unintentionally, I'm sure - created a rod not just for their own backs, but for those of poor, unsuspecting other people who have better things to be dealing with. Nevertheless, the law is indeed the law and schools, as public institutions, do need to comply with it. But then we must bear in mind our primary business, and why we are doing it. Our suppliers must also bear in mind their primary business, and why they are doing it. Edited February 17, 2014 by Ephelyon
sparkeh Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Interestingly, one of the worst offenders for failure to comply is the DfE.... Tut tut Mr Gove! Just out of curiosity, what actually happens if you don't comply? When journalists use foi requests they always say "X number of Councils\NHS trusts\Police forces responded", yet I can't say I've ever heard of an institution being prosecuted for non compliance.
elsiegee40 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Just out of curiosity, what actually happens if you don't comply? When journalists use foi requests they always say "X number of Councils\NHS trusts\Police forces responded", yet I can't say I've ever heard of an institution being prosecuted for non compliance. In theory you are in for huge fines imposed by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) and it does happen to mere normal businesses like schools and councils. Whether the DfE cares or pays up is another matter
Homer Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Thing is though, even if you did have to divulge information through FOI, you would certainly never deal with a company like this thanks to this kind of ridiculous tactic! They're obviously not the brains of the operation...
featured_spectre Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 @CAM can you please let your friend know, he mentioned about the person said about a "lawyer friend"...I didn't say that, I said I asked an actual lawyer. I work in a lawyers office and have about 30 of them to ask for advice on various things. DPA does indeed cover a contract and most contracts have clauses that would oppose FOIA in someway, most saying not to divulge how much they're worth, the company name, signatory parties etc. The person I asked specifically deals with Freedom of information, Copyright Permissions and DPA within our office and all requests for FOIA get sent to him (as we were a company that dealt with people using legal aid). *edit* @CAM this is not a dig at you, or your friend, just me advising what I was told, and the person I asked, and their position and such like within the company I work for.
CAM Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 He's not my friend, I was restraining myself on his blog comments... 1
sonofsanta Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 The notion of commercial sensitivity is massively overhyped in the public sector and s43 of FOI offers only limited opportunities to exempt information. It would be very useful to know what is covered by s43 then - is it only for requests like "Please give us the source code for your internally developed & copyrighted application" and similar? ICO's guidance - that I quoted directly earlier - isn't overly specific in this regard.
Roberto Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Well, here is blogger Tim's view of the thread. (Please keep replies civil as it's taken an awful lot of teeth pulling to get this!) I think he's absolutely right. I'm amazed and appalled at the amount of hysterical nonsense talked on here every time a FOI request is mentioned. Yes, some of the applicants are distasteful when they try and dig information out via FOI to use to harass the school and undercut current suppliers, but the answer to that is to supply the information then refuse to deal with them when they ring up looking for a sale, not to play stupid games with supplying the answers to what is a valid FOI request. Edited February 19, 2014 by Little-Miss
witch Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 I think he's absolutely right. I'm amazed and appalled at the amount of hysterical nonsense talked on here every time a FOI request is mentioned. Yes, some of the applicants are distasteful when they try and dig information out via FOI to use to harass the school and undercut current suppliers, but the answer to that is to supply the information then refuse to deal with them when they ring up looking for a sale, not to play stupid games with supplying the answers to what is a valid FOI request. Yes, he is right - and some of us said what he is saying too. But he doesn't have to be such a supercilious, um, person about it. Remember, he REFUSED to come on here and "put us right". 2
Roberto Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Yes, he is right - and some of us said what he is saying too. But he doesn't have to be such a supercilious, um, person about it. Remember, he REFUSED to come on here and "put us right". In fairness he may have expected a hostile reception. It isn't like this is the first time or even the tenth time we've had a very similar go-around on FOI with similar results. But yeah, you have a point. Edited February 19, 2014 by Roberto
elsiegee40 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Were my school subject to FoI, I think I would be setting up an email account which would be used only as the contact email of "the person in charge of purchasing $ Product..." When the marketing guff comes in, it would then be easy to tell that this company had done their research through FoI and ignore them when going for quotes. Nothing wrong with that methinks
witch Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 that's a good idea- I do that sort of thing at BETT. If I get any sales emails or calls I know if they are from BETT given that they address them to Ms Wi Tch !!
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