VLE's and primary schools: Ao nao comprende

[contink]

I'll be honest I'm completely at sea when it comes to VLE's and I've so many fingers in an exponentially larger number of pies I just haven't had the time to look into them in brief, much less in detail.

 

Can someone provide a poor sap with a quick n00b guide to VLE's and how they could be implemented successfully in a primary school environment.

 

Feel free to treat like an idiot

 

 

 

That subject nugget is Portugese btw - you can probably guess what it means.

[CyberNerd]

CMS for teachers. Teachers write (or purchase) resource, ideally web based using a wysiwyg editor (but usually they upload ppt files because they 'don't have the time'). students log in to their course, can access the learning resourses, upload assignments, do quizes, forum, calendar,video etc. Like a shared network drive that http accessible with more functionality. Accessible from home.

e-portfolio is more of an online home drive , but the two can be mixed.

 

not so sure about primary, our yr7 seem to cope ok.

[contink]

CMS for teachers. Teachers write (or purchase) resource, ideally web based using a wysiwyg editor (but usually they upload ppt files because they 'don't have the time').

 

Hmm... Ok so the emphasis is on the staff to either buy in or create resources and then provide them on the system.

 

I'm guessing this is one of those things where a collaborative VLE or one provided across the county/cluster is going to be the best plan.

[CyberNerd]

yes, collaboration and sharing is the key (the point of teaching IMHO). It doesn't necessaritly need to be county/cluster because VLE resources should conform to a recognised open format (scorm). this means that resources can be shared between different VLE's and teachers can take resources with them if they change schools - currently (exacerbated by the elc fiasco) a piece of software bought in one school won't transfer unless aniother schools buys in as well)

[theriver]

Just out of interest, how many VLEs conform to this standard?

 

I was at a sales presentation recently, given by one of the larger VLE providers. One of the teaching staff asked about how she could take her work with her when she moved schools . . . and the sales guy told her that she couldn't, there's no 'export' function.

 

You could almost see everyone deciding that it's rubbish, and not to be used.

 

And to be frank, I can't blame them.

 

Hang on - I feel a rant coming on. I'll stop here.

[CESIL]

I work in a junior school and so far I can only see a VLE giving me more headaches than benefits.

 

Given the IT skills of the majority of our staff (see my signature below) I already know who will spend his time preparing (or repairing) work and then uploading it to the VLE.

 

Moving to this nirvana of an online teaching environment will surely just increase the gap between the technological haves and have nots in school. Although our school is in a prosperous area there is a significant number of pupils who do not have access to the internet from home.

 

We have already had one mother ask why their child could not download homework from the school website. This was because the pupil had left the work at school...online access is just going to shift responsibility for remembering work from the pupil onto the staff and again disadvantage those without internet access.

 

Oh and finally...there would appear to be significant costs associated with the provision of a VLE...no wonder companies with "solutions" are popping up ready to milk another government imposed cash cow.

 

Phew...that feels better...

[contink]

I work in a junior school and so far I can only see a VLE giving me more headaches than benefits.

 

Given the IT skills of the majority of our staff (see my signature below) I already know who will spend his time preparing (or repairing) work and then uploading it to the VLE.

 

I gotta say that the discussion thus far is only compounding my own misgivings on the subject. Out of 4 schools I now support I'm reasonably confident that 3 staff members will be able to utilise a VLE system while those remaining will break down into the usual "it's a computer, I won't understand it!" and "well I'll try but when?" mindsets.

 

BUT... let's concentrate on what can be done to make something like this work.. Rants are for the FFS forum after all

[beeswax]

...online access is just going to shift responsibility for remembering work from the pupil onto the staff and again disadvantage those without internet access.

 

I'm afraid there are inequalities throughout the world. It shouldn't mean that because there's not enough to go round, no one gets to use it though. However imperfect the system is (and I know our own school's laptops for pupils scheme is going to cause us a major headache), it's what we have to work with.

[Geoff]

You can export moodle courses. Plus there is nothing to stop providers of other VLE's creating Moodle -> Whatever converters. The specs are open.

[Guest Guest]

Personally id have a look at moodle. Its free, easy to setup, has masses of documentation and free content.

 

Main point there is its free. If one school takes off with it and they feel they have to pay for a solution (for whatever bizarre reason they come up with) then you can always look into it for them. While the other schools havnt wasted £x on something they will never use.

 

We have had a VLE for years now and to date i believe out of 80 members of staff, 1 has tried it but not got any real benifits from it. But then that could be because the VLE is utterly poo with bugs and crashes

[GrumbleDook]

Standards in content on VLEs ... I would recommend that UK schools look at CETIS for information about IMS and SCORM ... but also look at ADLnet for full information about SCORM compliancy.

 

Schools should be pushing content providers to only provide materials that can be SCORM compliant or freely used in SCORM creation tools.

 

Resources hosted on external sites (like teachertube) can still be used but you have to have a key / unique URL to access it without requiring authentication. Some content providers will not do this for copyright reasons.

 

Collaboration *is* the key, not just school to school, but department to department too.

[contink]

Collaboration *is* the key, not just school to school, but department to department too.

Aye...

 

So part of the battle is preparing people so they combine their skills and knowledge to make it happen.. Hmm...

[GrumbleDook]

Exactly ... resistance is futile.

 

erm ... I'll get my coat, it's the one with the tricorder in the pocket.

[pallen]

We use Moodle here, and the way we worked it was to download it and install it locally on our network. We created 1 usergroup who could test this for us and 1 teacher who would upload work etc. We are a secondary school and already have lots of resources on our network and the teacher was able to upload work already done after creating a course on Moodle. We found it to be pretty easy to pickup and I was confident that teachers would be able to pick it up to. We have now got it hosted externally and all the school has access to it. Originally the teachers who used it the most where the ones who are more confident (or more willing to learn new things) with computers. Now the pupils are asking subjects where there is no course to create one, which in turn is pushing the teachers to produce the work(I find that the teachers seem more willing if they can see pupils wanting to learn through new media). Every teacher is shown how to create courses and upload work etc so the only admin I do is creating users etc.

 

Maybe you could create a test setup to show teachers what can be done. If you are going to roll out a VLE it is necessary that you get a few guidelines in place before doing so. You cant be expected to upload/update all teachers courses, but you could show people how to do it.

[eean]

There is a long thread on the TES website here about this. 68 post later I am yet to be convinced as how they can be of value to me or my school.

[Rant]

The problem is that the government have gone into a secondary school where they have seen a VLE/next big thing that:

- Is fully integrated

- Technologically works

- Is lead by people who passionately believe it works and will make it work

- Who are well trained (often spent many hours self training)

- solves a problem that already exists

They've seen this and saw it was brilliant "Why doesn't everyone do this!" they think.

 

So they've applied a watered down, non-integrated version to a primary school (where there isn't a problem to solve) and expecting someone who doesn't understand them and doesn't really believe they will work to make it work! You're not going to get the same result!

[/Rant]

 

I also sat through 2 hours of a LEA consultant trying desparately to convince me that I should spend my time, and my collegues' time, on it. The brunt of their argument was "it's a government target." I, personally, am quite happy to add it to my list of government targets I'm going to fail to meet.

[localzuk]

I was sent on a course to look at the one we are using, and to be honest I don't see any use for it. Neither did the teacher who came along too.

 

Teachers will see it as extra work with little benefit, parents will complain they don't have internet access and it will slowly die.

 

Why waste all the money on something which will be widely panned?

[Andie]

When we were told about VLEs and their benefits and uses, these included being able to notify parents that the football club was cancelled that evening (parent logs in to check before leaving office/home, apparently). It was also stated that some schools are already insisting that homework/coursework is only submitted electronically.

 

I leave you to draw your own conclusions....

[becktonboy]

I am yet to be convinced as how they can be of value to me or my school. .

I took part in that TES discussion eean and am still waiting for anyone to really give me much help in answering that question, although grumbledook gave me pause for thought in a similar thread I started here.

 

The problem is that the government have gone into a secondary school where they have seen a VLE/next big thing that:

- Is fully integrated

- Technologically works

- Is lead by people who passionately believe it works and will make it work

- Who are well trained (often spent many hours self training)

- solves a problem that already exists

They've seen this and saw it was brilliant "Why doesn't everyone do this!" they think.... they've applied a ..... non-integrated version to a primary school (where there isn't a problem to solve) and expecting someone who doesn't understand them and doesn't really believe they will work to make it work! ... LEA ... argument was "it's a government target."

.

 

I soooo agree, I am also prety hacked off about the amount of money it will cost which could have been spent more wisely - especially if spent by me -

[benit2]

Ok I am going to go out on a ledge here against you lot.

 

My view point is from a secondary school requirements, I do agree its a lot harder for primary schools to find money for such a project, being some do not even have decent computer suites (I use to work for 10 primary schools in Bristol)

 

That said Primary schools should not need to carry too much cost as they should team up with secondary schools (Feeder schools helped by secondary’s). This logic also means the children already know about such systems before getting to secondary school. Even if there use in primary school was to use it on a very basic level. The point is they have the skills and the logic to use it!

I strongly believe a school cannot simply keep adding computers to a network with not real learning framework in place to keep it all in sync (cross curricular, home links etc). I have been to schools with thousands of computers (literally) but without decent learning platform and or software titles, the computers are useless – unless teachers would rather kids messed round on the internet for an hours lesson!!!

Without being ageist, we need to at least put a bit of thought about how children of today think. I would like to bet that most children know of and most likely have a facebook or IM account!! They are motivated by this dream of a virtual world they control. Why fight against what they are motivated by, use it as a tool to educated them on stuff that is otherwise “boring miss!!”. I would not for one minute say use facebook in a lesson, but VLEs are structured in similar methods to this, so they will see the comparisons !!

As for sharing resources it’s an excellent tool, I am in contact with about 8 schools across the UK who have the Microsoft VLE (Microsoft Learning Gateway). We all share best practice and develop various things and share them!! Just like on Edugeek!! Let’s not reinvent the wheel scenario!!!

On a final note (I have gone on a bit), before we implemented a VLE, we actually (even though we did not know it) has allot of the VLE elements already, such as exchange server (email server) ISA Firewall and web based sharing (windows 2003). The VLE should not be seen as a bit of individual software, look at it as a framework or gateway to pull various functions, software, collaboration and systems together!! That’s the benefit!!

 

If you take the easy route within IT manager / Technician roles within schools, you will have a relaxed job!!, but the kids will lose out, and that is not fair on them!!

[torledo]

Ok I am going to go out on a ledge here against you lot.

 

My view point is from a secondary school requirements, I do agree its a lot harder for primary schools to find money for such a project, being some do not even have decent computer suites (I use to work for 10 primary schools in Bristol)

 

That said Primary schools should not need to carry too much cost as they should team up with secondary schools (Feeder schools helped by secondary’s). This logic also means the children already know about such systems before getting to secondary school. Even if there use in primary school was to use it on a very basic level. The point is they have the skills and the logic to use it!

I strongly believe a school cannot simply keep adding computers to a network with not real learning framework in place to keep it all in sync (cross curricular, home links etc). I have been to schools with thousands of computers (literally) but without decent learning platform and or software titles, the computers are useless – unless teachers would rather kids messed round on the internet for an hours lesson!!!

Without being ageist, we need to at least put a bit of thought about how children of today think. I would like to bet that most children know of and most likely have a facebook or IM account!! They are motivated by this dream of a virtual world they control. Why fight against what they are motivated by, use it as a tool to educated them on stuff that is otherwise “boring miss!!”. I would not for one minute say use facebook in a lesson, but VLEs are structured in similar methods to this, so they will see the comparisons !!

As for sharing resources it’s an excellent tool, I am in contact with about 8 schools across the UK who have the Microsoft VLE (Microsoft Learning Gateway). We all share best practice and develop various things and share them!! Just like on Edugeek!! Let’s not reinvent the wheel scenario!!!

On a final note (I have gone on a bit), before we implemented a VLE, we actually (even though we did not know it) has allot of the VLE elements already, such as exchange server (email server) ISA Firewall and web based sharing (windows 2003). The VLE should not be seen as a bit of individual software, look at it as a framework or gateway to pull various functions, software, collaboration and systems together!! That’s the benefit!!

 

If you take the easy route within IT manager / Technician roles within schools, you will have a relaxed job!!, but the kids will lose out, and that is not fair on them!!

 

You sound like you work for Microsoft - as that's exactly how they sell the Learning Gateway, as a set of components and a suite of products as opposed to a single VLE product. But if you are going down the Microsoft route the key component is obviously Sharepoint (or WSS).

 

I think there are quite a few people on here who have experience with rolling out a MOSS based portal/learning gateway. And of course theres the class server SDK that let's you add school specific portlets (sorry, java term there...but for want of a better word )

 

And of all the approaches this is certainly the most elegant. You can actually get a very useable portable before you even have to think about web parts or vb.net code.

 

I know there's been a lot of talk about facebook and social networking...but surely the killer app as far as an online Learning platform is to be able to exploit the power of web services - so that you can seamlessly integrate and extract information from various sources both from the school intranet and from the wider internet and present them in an easy to nagivate and structured way. And yes, you mentioned exchange integration (OWA) and facebook style interaction...but also news alerts, video sharing, assignment scores etc. Integrating with SQL data if necessary.

 

Where I see it heading, Content management systems, intranets, portals, B2B porta;s and VLE's integrating into a single information portal. I've even coined my own term CIP. Converged Information Platform. Pronouned KIP so as not to be confused with the world beater that is SIP.

geddit ?

 

This has been going on for years in the corporate sector - giving employees their own My_insert name of company here____ area. At my last company they used peoplesoft to accomlish this. But php, moodle and now MOSS have come along to allow schools to do something similar more affordably. But it still requires programming and technical skills.

[webman]

If only Capita/SIMS would play nice and let schools access all of their own data for free via open, documented APIs and web services.

[torledo]

Standards in content on VLEs ... I would recommend that UK schools look at CETIS for information about IMS and SCORM ... but also look at ADLnet for full information about SCORM compliancy.

 

Schools should be pushing content providers to only provide materials that can be SCORM compliant or freely used in SCORM creation tools.

 

Resources hosted on external sites (like teachertube) can still be used but you have to have a key / unique URL to access it without requiring authentication. Some content providers will not do this for copyright reasons.

 

Collaboration *is* the key, not just school to school, but department to department too.

 

You make a good point about SCORM. But what I've always wondered about SCORM is why it's even needed. It seems to try and solve a problem that XML, Web Services and the portlet specifications have already solved pretty well. Which is the notion of compatability.

 

Please help me out on this.

 

SCORM to me is one of those created for education going nowhere standards like shibboliethgthth

 

I mean if is about encouraging the providers to develop SCORM compliant solutions why not encourage all of them to work together to implement standards based Web 2.0 technologies and expose their API's as web services. In the way that google and yahoo have done. Or on a simple scale how the wordpress community have developed plugins based on industry standard javascript.

[benit2]

Ok I am going to go out on a ledge here against you lot.

 

My view point is from a secondary school requirements, I do agree its a lot harder for primary schools to find money for such a project, being some do not even have decent computer suites (I use to work for 10 primary schools in Bristol)

 

That said Primary schools should not need to carry too much cost as they should team up with secondary schools (Feeder schools helped by secondary’s). This logic also means the children already know about such systems before getting to secondary school. Even if there use in primary school was to use it on a very basic level. The point is they have the skills and the logic to use it!

I strongly believe a school cannot simply keep adding computers to a network with not real learning framework in place to keep it all in sync (cross curricular, home links etc). I have been to schools with thousands of computers (literally) but without decent learning platform and or software titles, the computers are useless – unless teachers would rather kids messed round on the internet for an hours lesson!!!

Without being ageist, we need to at least put a bit of thought about how children of today think. I would like to bet that most children know of and most likely have a facebook or IM account!! They are motivated by this dream of a virtual world they control. Why fight against what they are motivated by, use it as a tool to educated them on stuff that is otherwise “boring miss!!”. I would not for one minute say use facebook in a lesson, but VLEs are structured in similar methods to this, so they will see the comparisons !!

As for sharing resources it’s an excellent tool, I am in contact with about 8 schools across the UK who have the Microsoft VLE (Microsoft Learning Gateway). We all share best practice and develop various things and share them!! Just like on Edugeek!! Let’s not reinvent the wheel scenario!!!

On a final note (I have gone on a bit), before we implemented a VLE, we actually (even though we did not know it) has allot of the VLE elements already, such as exchange server (email server) ISA Firewall and web based sharing (windows 2003). The VLE should not be seen as a bit of individual software, look at it as a framework or gateway to pull various functions, software, collaboration and systems together!! That’s the benefit!!

 

If you take the easy route within IT manager / Technician roles within schools, you will have a relaxed job!!, but the kids will lose out, and that is not fair on them!!

 

You sound like you work for Microsoft - as that's exactly how they sell the Learning Gateway, as a set of components and a suite of products as opposed to a single VLE product. But if you are going down the Microsoft route the key component is obviously Sharepoint (or WSS).

 

I think there are quite a few people on here who have experience with rolling out a MOSS based portal/learning gateway. And of course theres the class server SDK that let's you add school specific portlets (sorry, java term there...but for want of a better word )

 

And of all the approaches this is certainly the most elegant. You can actually get a very useable portable before you even have to think about web parts or vb.net code.

 

I know there's been a lot of talk about facebook and social networking...but surely the killer app as far as an online Learning platform is to be able to exploit the power of web services - so that you can seamlessly integrate and extract information from various sources both from the school intranet and from the wider internet and present them in an easy to nagivate and structured way. And yes, you mentioned exchange integration (OWA) and facebook style interaction...but also news alerts, video sharing, assignment scores etc. Integrating with SQL data if necessary.

 

Where I see it heading, Content management systems, intranets, portals, B2B porta;s and VLE's integrating into a single information portal. I've even coined my own term CIP. Converged Information Platform. Pronouned KIP so as not to be confused with the world beater that is SIP.

geddit ?

 

This has been going on for years in the corporate sector - giving employees their own My_insert name of company here____ area. At my last company they used peoplesoft to accomlish this. But php, moodle and now MOSS have come along to allow schools to do something similar more affordably. But it still requires programming and technical skills.

 

I wish I worked for MS, its where the money is at 8)

 

Indeed the integration is fantastic, our MOSS links with Sims, canteen system, banned users or internet blocked users, library system etc. When we looked round for VLE, not many of them could do all that, with integratted login - That is a blessing - Sign on to windows and not more prompts for usernames etc.

 

We also use a product called tools forever that sucks the information from sims and creates users automatically - not september blues for us!!!

 

If anyone one wants advice on MLG I am happy to give my view /experinces.

[benit2]

If only Capita/SIMS would play nice and let schools access all of their own data for free via open, documented APIs and web services.

 

I think (please correct me if i am wrong) you are allowed to acces the SQL database of sims, this is not any sims workings, just your data you paid your office staff to enter. I am working on a system to pull info out this way. Capita want about 7k for there webparts !!!

 

much the same as you export the data from sims in csv format now, its would be comparible situation, just using a different extraction method.

[CyberNerd]

You make a good point about SCORM. But what I've always wondered about SCORM is why it's even needed. It seems to try and solve a problem that XML, Web Services and the portlet specifications have already solved pretty well. Which is the notion of compatability.

 

Please help me out on this.

SCORM is already XML, It's not just so different companies can create resources, but also so teachers can create SCORM and share resources or move them to other schools, easier than providing an api, it's an open format geared towards educational resources.

 

SCORM to me is one of those created for education going nowhere standards like shibboliethgthth

Actually SCORM was created for the military, albeit the education side, Shibboleth is used widely in further education, it's just not been adopted by schools/LA's yet.