Everything In The Cloud - Best Way?

[ozydave]

The issue with the PATRIOT Act and the like doesn't have to be a problem for a British school if you use a European-hosted Cloud service that's decent (like... ermmm...).

Glad someone else mentioned the "patriot". I speak about it here and people think I am nuts to worry about it.

 

All I can think the only thing clouds bring us rain!

[CyberNerd]

Glad someone else mentioned the "patriot". I speak about it here and people think I am nuts to worry about it.

 

 

I think your nuts to worry about it. If the US (or any other government) want your data they will get it, whether its hosted on your servers or someone elses.

In fact, I'd wager that its probably more secure entrusting it to Google/MS/Amazon and have their security engineers look after it.

[CyberNerd]

Sure, it has from/to etc, plus contents, but I'm thinking of a few I have on our Exchange where it needs to be "between distlist and distlist" or rules that allow pupils to send/receive with teachers and receive from pupils, but not send to pupils (owing to abuse); it's an important part of our e-mail sanctions policy. It doesn't look that granular from what I've seen.

 

 

It does this. It's been on our Google domain for the last three years. - they moved the functionality from postini into Google apps a year or two back. If you looked before this you would have needed to use postini.

[edutech4schools]

The issue with the PATRIOT Act and the like doesn't have to be a problem for a British school if you use a European-hosted Cloud service that's decent (like... ermmm...).

 

Even MS say they do not meet the EU regs - EU demands answers over Microsoft's Patriot Act admission | ZDNet

[Michael]

Cloud based e-mail is absolutely fine and even the slowest of connections is capable of multiple logins to a web service. Cloud computing for files/images/music is still a long way off - certainly in the UK anyway. Fibre connections are available in a lot of schools, but they're operating anywhere from 10Mbps to 100Mbps in most typical setups.

 

By the time the UK actually gets multi-gigabit internet connections at affordable prices I'll end up retiring and I'm in my 30's now!

[Ephelyon]

It does this. It's been on our Google domain for the last three years. - they moved the functionality from postini into Google apps a year or two back. If you looked before this you would have needed to use postini.

 

I'm seeing "outbound filtering" on the feature comparison list for the migration (we also need to restrict pupil e-mails to each other and staff, barring certain permitted external addresses for certain pupils) planned for Q3 2013. Maybe it'll be viable by the end of the year... but again I beg the question of why you would move to someone else's solution when you already have your own.

[CyberNerd]

I'm seeing "outbound filtering" on the feature comparison list for the migration (we also need to restrict pupil e-mails to each other and staff, barring certain permitted external addresses for certain pupils) planned for Q3 2013..

 

you can do this with a content filter or by re-routing external mail to a bounce.

[Ephelyon]

Sounds promising but also something that would need to be trialled in practice... but either way though, as I say, it all seems terribly roundabout when we have a perfectly serviceable Exchange installation on-site.

[CyberNerd]

Sounds promising but also something that would need to be trialled in practice... but either way though, as I say, it all seems terribly roundabout when we have a perfectly serviceable Exchange installation on-site.

 

I think serviceable is the problem: You have to set it up, maintain it, you pay for licenses, CALS, you pay for renewals on the hardware. It doesn't come with a document management system (that is extra) it doesn't come with photo management, it doesn't come with user site management and a host of other things.

I save my money and time on licneses and hardware and spend it in (redundant) broadband. Its a different approach which works for us.

[Ephelyon]

As you say, a different approach. Setting up and maintaining these things is where my skillset lies and where my job comes from; without that there's little to challenge me. CALs aren't that much through EES now and our server warranty renewals are drastically reduced now we've gone virtual and there are far fewer physical hosts. On the CMS side, hopefully the new learning platform will take care of that for our needs. A separate broadband connection would probably cost us more than the combined extras of the above.

 

But whatever works in the end. The way both Office 365 and GMail are going, they'll most likely have enterprise-ready features within the next few years.

[CyberNerd]

CALs aren't that much through EES now and our server warranty renewals are drastically reduced now we've gone virtual and there are far fewer physical hosts. .

 

We don't pay for EES - All that money goes on broadband and we just buy the 'odd' MSOffice license where its needed.

[Ephelyon]

That's because you're on FOSS though, if I recall?

[CyberNerd]

That's because you're on FOSS though, if I recall?

 

Some FOSS, some cloud, Some propriety. It's a mixed bag.

[Ephelyon]

I've always found it interesting how the arguments for FOSS and for the cloud - while technically unrelated - often tend to go together (I mean in the industry as a whole, not individual organisations). Perhaps it's due to the influence of big players like Google, who traditionally will promote both.

[localzuk]

@CyberNerd mentions the money saved goes on a second net connection. That would cost us a minimum of £40k per year where I am, as we'd have to leave the LEA connection and get 2 private fibre lines. That is more than any possible savings for us.

[Ephelyon]

Perhaps not quite as much for us but it certainly wouldn't be cheap and would most likely cost more than our current licensing/warranty renewals... we'd also miss out on the ability to have the hub nodes at our end and another local school's unthrottled to 100Mbps out of hours so we can back up to each other. But every situation is different.

[CyberNerd]

@CyberNerd mentions the money saved goes on a second net connection. That would cost us a minimum of £40k per year where I am, as we'd have to leave the LEA connection and get 2 private fibre lines. That is more than any possible savings for us.

 

It is only on a redundant ADSL line - it's not a 2nd fibre connection. We may upgrade it to EFM now those costs are down significantly.

[gopackgo]

Well, thanks for all the responses.

 

For some, they seemed to think that a cloud based solution wouldn't work because of a lack of a quality internet connection. We have one decent connection and are looking at getting another faster connection to use either just as a backup, or to load balance/backup. With Google docs, when you're working on your files it's not like you have to download the file, then upload it back to the cloud. So, it is really efficient as far as internet usage goes.

 

As we look towards 1 to 1 computing the thought is to go with something like chromebooks that would work well with Google docs etc. We would eventually look at putting some sort of textbook management app on there to provide them with their textbooks.

 

We will still have a lab though for now at least for Windows based programs we still rely on. I'm guessing there will be fewer and fewer of those though as the market for tablets/android OS based devices grows.

 

One issue we may run into is how to manage the chromebooks. We're not sure yet if the school will provide them or if the students will have to purchase one. The possible issue would be kids messing it up. So, I'm thinking we would purchase/own the units and then need some way to lock them down. Not sure of what kind of app we could use for Android os for that as of right now.

 

Any issues you guys see with that approach?

 

We are mainly focusing on using Google docs as between that and a web browser for internet research, there is little else that most students need. Even Adobe has a web based platform although I haven't tried it with an android os.

 

So, we rely on the internet so much already that it's worth it for us to invest in a backup connection. Some of the cost can be offset with savings on not need as robust of a infrastructure as far as storage and CALs for MS office, etc.

 

I realize Google is like big brother but as others have said, they and others can get your info in other ways if they wanted. Impossible to avoid these days, although sad at the same time.

 

One person mentioned not wanting to go that route because it might result in them not having a job. That is NOT a valid reason IMHO.

 

Anything else I've missed? I think teachers will still have a Windows based pc but use google docs. It will probably be up to them to what extent. Students will probably have chromebooks or a android based tablet. We'll still have a lab for things like video editing and things of that nature.

 

Still some details to fill in though regarding the students' chromebooks.

[CyberNerd]

^ this is pretty much exactly the route we have taken.

Sounds like you have thought it through. I think the biggest hurdle isn't going to be a technical one at all - that with staff acceptance as "that's the way they have always done it".

 

I totally agree that the days of native windows only apps days are limited and it is good that you are seeing the bigger picture.

[Ephelyon]

In this area of England there is a supplier offering leasing schemes for equipment such as iPads or Chromebooks (or full laptops - and I'm sure they're not the only people doing this!) whereby the leasing cost can be from as little as £7/month per device, with this amount being passed onto each child's parents. This would seem to be an easy and affordable way for families to provide this for their children while the school is able to cut costs significantly.

[Simcfc73]

Interesting thread, we've just had a meeting where the idea of cloud computing raised its head. I can see a hybrid solution working but hate the idea of going all cloud, except for the junior school which uses it lighter.

[Arthur]

A good reason not to go cloud only (at least for home users)...

 

Dumped! by Google

 

One recent Thursday morning, I logged into my e-mail and made an alarming discovery. Instead of opening my inbox, Google directed me to a notice:

 

Account has been disabled . . . . In most cases, accounts are disabled if we believe you have violated either the Google Terms of Service, product-specific Terms of Service . . . . or product-specific policies . . . . it might be possible to regain access to your account.

 

It was like I'd gotten dumped, via text message, by someone en route to Cabo. The vagaries left me reeling. I read the terms and policies, but they offered few clues. There were no numbers to call, no tickets to request help. I had a real problem with how things ended, so I filled out a form and sent it into the ether. What exactly had I done wrong? Had I missed the warning signs? Did Google want me or not?

 

In reality, I discovered, Google assumes no responsibility over user data nor is it required by law to do so. In the same notice informing me that it had disabled my account, Google told me for the first time that it reserves the right to “terminate your account at any time, for any reason, with or without notice.” In its Terms of Service, Google limits its total liability for stolen data, lost data, anything, “TO THE AMOUNT YOU PAID US TO USE THE SERVICES” (yes, in all caps), which could mean as much as the $2.49 per month you shelled out for 25GB more storage or in my case, nothing.

 

Google not only reserves the right to take away or vaporize our data for any reason, but it also reserves the right to discontinue services, the means to access it, whenever it wants. It does this more often than you probably realize and most recently with Google Reader, which disappears on July 1.

 

I was getting a crash course on the harsh realities of the Internet and early cloud computing, an era in which we are all just users and nothing more. No matter how much we actively contribute to improving companies’ products or the network of data that makes the Internet possible at all, users are easily discarded. Google’s priorities are squarely fixed on preventing data from falling into the wrong hands—not ensuring it is always available to the right ones.

[Ephelyon]

It's the old "all the eggs in one basket" story again... something I never do with any of our suppliers for similar reasons. Multiple cloud providers might not be so bad of course, but then you'd miss out on all the nice integration benefits.

[jsacre]

We are a secondary school with about 1200 pupils, all Windows systems. We are however on the move to GAPPS, but we are not abandoning Windows, just scaling back our operations.

In terms of desktops around the school, we normally buy refurb Core2 duo based HP machines and whack an SSD in them, these are great for media related stuff but to be honest pretty overkill for most tasks. our intentions are to gradually replace most of these machines with carts of Chromebooks scattered across the school site, where teachers/students can use them within the confines of their own classroom and not be restricted to booking out IT suites. For most tasks ChromeBooks tick all the boxes where the only exceptions being media and ICT where local storage is required(Photoshop, Premiere etc).

 

In terms of accounts we are already syncing staff and students accounts and passwords with Google and are migrating mailboxes as we speak ready to migrate to GMAIL in September.

 

I am a self proclaimed system centre/hyper-v nut, but this whole Google eco-system is awesome and so refreshing coming from windows, the policies are clearly labelled (unlike some of the vague entries in GPO's) and the big thing for me is the speed; 10-15 seconds from turning on a ChromeBook (even the older models) to being able to use it.(with all the apps you just deployed).

 

For those of you looking at iPad's/Chromebooks my opinion is this:

iPad's (and Android based devices) are designed to be used by a single user, where you sign-in to the device and that is how you get the full experience, they suit the 1-1 model quite well but the classroom model not so much. (IMO)

 

Chromebooks- Anyone can pick up ANY chromebook within your org and be working straight away, all their apps, files, history etc. bam -it's there, and then when you sign out 'poof' its gone.

 

Chromebook Vs Windows laptop:

 

On a ChromeBook, there is no need for antivirus/anti malware and so there is no device slowdown caused by this.

Price: the series 3 ChromeBook can be had for around £195 (ex vat)

config: On a Chromebook you add it your wifi, enroll the device and thats about it. (I don't think I need to tell you how this works on Windows)

speed: A Chromebook can be on and working before a Windows machine even gets to the loading screen.

lost work: If the machine crashes, the students don't lose their work.

app deployment: pushing apps or your own code is pretty much 1-click 'push' and these go to chrome on the desktop too.

 

Lastly but most importantly: Cross platform, Chrome/Google works on pretty much any device - iOS, Android, ChromeOS, Windows, Mac, Linux. For me this is more important than the hardware as it does not matter who wins the device war - the ecosystem will always be there.

 

I'm not anti-windows; I actually quite like Windows 8 (for its hidden functions), but I do think that these days a full fat OS is a bit old hat for most things.

 

And no, ChromeOS/GAPPS will not put you out of a job.

[jamesbmarshall]

Without getting into the ecumenical debate about which service or device is better, I'm interested to read your thoughts...

 

Straight out of the gate you say that you purchase refurbished PCs with older processors, etc. and you say that they're overkill for most of what you need.

 

we normally buy refurb Core2 duo based HP machines and whack an SSD in them, these are great for media related stuff but to be honest pretty overkill for most tasks.

 

But very quickly your argument turns to the speed element, and how booting a Chromebook is quick, etc.

 

the big thing for me is the speed; 10-15 seconds from turning on a ChromeBook (even the older models) to being able to use it.(with all the apps you just deployed).

 

speed: A Chromebook can be on and working before a Windows machine even gets to the loading screen.

 

I'm not going to try and bang the drum for Windows because that's not why I'm commenting (and it wouldn't be appropriate)! I am interested to know whether or not you'd re-evaluate your position if you purchased newer hardware on which to run Windows? Is the perception of Windows gained from the previous experiences with older OS versions and hardware eclipsing the experience of Windows 8 on the latest devices?

 

I'm not trying to change your mind, by the way, but I'm hugely interested to know what influences peoples decisions!

 

 

(Although, if you are interested in this sort of thing, check out this, and keep an eye on Microsoft UK Schools blog today too)