Kitkatninja

Added to that, the vandalism???

True, alot of people still see IT in education as it was 15 years ago. Now a days you have the in-school IT staff, building domains/forests, managing software that is fresh off the press up to 15 years old, managing large budgets and staff, outsourcing themselves to other organisations (educations and non-educational), terminating copper as well as fibre, offering training, etc... And the list goes on.

We are both (ICT Professionals who work in the Education sector), like IT Pro's in every other sector there are similarities and differences. Just like there are similarities and differences between a primary school teacher, a secondary school teacher, a FE lecturer and a HE lecturer. Now that is a question to ask... Things don't change overnight, what we do today will affect "us" in 5-10 years time.

I'll have a word with GrumbleDook and see what we can do.

I don't mind contacting the BCS with the relevant questions (or maybe GrumbleDook can, I don't mind). The thing with that is you'd still be asking an organisation to represent our profession, when approx 75% of us either don't belong or have no wish to join a professional organisation (let along the same professional organisation). You do not have to be a member of the BCS to do their qualifications or even attend most of the training courses (there would be a small fee though). How can any organisation represent us all if the majority of "us" don't belong? Let's face it, if "we" (professionals in the Education sector) wanted extra recognition, more of us would have done something about it and already signed up. I'm a member of the BCS, a CITP MBCS, however a few of my suggests have not taken off simply due to not enough support or interest. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm being pragmatic. This is why if a new body was created (like the FITS foundation is trying to do) with a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the BCS and/or the IET, it would have a bigger impact as most/all members come from the same sector/profession so that issues that relate to our field can be dealt with... However the same issues still apply, the majority will not join a professional association or governing body unless it is mandatory.

Agreed The challenge is (don't like using the word problem, even though I've used it several times) is that why would any association work/fight for us if only about a quarter of us are actual members of a professional association of some kind* and even less than that can even be bothered. Eg if 28% of us are members of a professional association, chances are then that roughtly 7% belong to the BCS, 7% belong to the IET, 7% belong to NAACE and the other 7% belong to other associations. This would equate to about 1500 IT professionals from the education sector per professional association (basing on 24,605 schools in January 2010) and averaging the amount of IT professionals in education (averaging up to 4 per secondary school and the fact that 4-5 primaries may share 1 tech). Now if the average professional association has about 70k members, a group of 1500 would only be 2% and out of that 2%, how many IT Pros that work in the education sector would actually do anything? The question is, does the BCS or the IET have enough members to warranty doing anything about this, as really it only affects a very very small amount of people. However if the whole quarter (or more) of IT Professionals in the education sector belonged to one association, then that would give us a loud voice. And in turn would give the association resources (including money, as lets face it, it's generated by membership dues) to fight our corner.

While I agree with @EdWhittaker there are a few issues, such as: 1. The IT professional as a whole, at alone the IT Field within education, is still not united. 2. With the Government trying to link teachers pay to performance and to be set at different local levels, setting it for another profession within the education sector could be a non-starter. There was also talk of and Still the problem is that IT is more or less an unregulated profession, in the recent poll I posted up here on Edugeek, only 28% of people that responded actually are a member of some sort of professional body. Also as there is no Governing Body, who is to say what set of qualifications should be recognised? Would a degree be mandatory (like other professions like teaching, nursing, law, engineering, etc)? What about certain professional certification (like Comptia, MS, CISCO, etc)? Who should monitor them, especially since they change practically every other year and they have a limited life? Eg old MCSA/MCSE -> MCTS/MCITP -> new MCSA/MCSE and expire/retire every 2-3 years for example. Teachers have the teacher's number (a licence of sorts), the bare minimum qualifications and the NQT, QTS and SCT (Chartered) status and they are united. What does the IT Profession have? Is there a Governing body? No, the BCS and the IET are professional bodies and being a member of them are optional not mandatory. Are there minimum qualifications to work in IT? No Are there registered and/or chartered statuses? Yes, however how many of us actually go for them? Don't get me wrong, I want the uprating of all of us in the IT Field in the Education sector, however without a good solid base and everyone (or at least majority) support we might at well be flogging a dead horse.

@Ephelyon, congrats

I used to teach the Microsoft courses at our local college in the evenings, now I teach with the OU part-time. Does that count?

Not sure what you mean... Do you mean management of IT within an educational context? If so, then look at FITS. Do you mean general management within the education sector? If so, then look at the NVQ in Management (levels 3, 4 or maybe even 5) as it can be tailored to your organisation or even the Certificate of School Business Management. Or you can even look at doing some sort of degree in the field of Educational Management, like the BA (Hons) Learning through Technology or even the Open degree from the OU where you can pick and choose your modules.

From a union point of view "yes", as there are specific union bodies that support staff join. There are differences between a union and a professional body. Union: an organization of workers who have banded together, often for the purpose of getting better working conditions or pay. Fighting for bettering overall working conditions, general representation (covers IT, estates, HLTA, etc), etc... Professional Body or Organisation: A group of people in a learned occupation who are entrusted with maintaining control or oversight of the legitimate practice of the occupation;" also a body acting "to safeguard the public interest;" organizations which "represent the interest of the professional practitioners," and so "act to maintain their own privileged and powerful position as a controlling body." Eg setting standards, raising the profession's/professional's status, specific to the job field (eg IT), etc... There is no "this one is better than that one" as they both focus on different things (there may be a minor cross over between the two, eg a professional association/body/organsation may offer Legal Advice Service, while a union may offer general CPD to the sector, say education, to it's members).

We may not have exactly the same needs as everyone else here, but there's alot of the same CPD needs. This is why there should be some sort of roadmap (with different routes) to assist technicians, senior techs, IT manager, web/VLE developers, etc...

That would be good if enough members were IT professionals from the education sector, however from the sounds of various polls alot of IT Pro's in the education sector aren't because they do not see the benefits for them or there aren't any benefits that are applicable to them. For example professional recognition of us that work in the IT field in the education sector... The BCS offers the IEng, CEng and the CITP chartered status for those working at at higher level, which may be applicable for some IT/Network managers but not all. They aren't offering the ICTTech mark which is aimed at people working at least at level 3 of the SFIA, which is appliable to practically all of us IT Pro's in the education sector. Qualification wise, you have the user qualifications (eg ECDL, iTQ, Online Basics, etc) or the business orientated ones (eg ITIL, software testing, Green and Sustainable IT, Project management), but if you want to do anything above foundation you have to pay a fortune to go on a course. Yes, they have just brought out the IT Application Specialist apprenticeship, where the only three routes that may be applicable would be either office support, teaching assistant or helpdesk support but again try to find a provider that will actually do this is like trying to find blood out of a stone (and again, non of these routes are specifically geared up towards IT Pro's in education, I mean how many of us just sit on the "helpdesk"). It's not just a case of lumping all support staff into one bucket, it's the development of the IT Profession - but not only that but the IT Profession in the education section.

For software "no", for hardware "yes". Well for us anyway However it does depend on on your in-house expertise...

I'm currently doing the M889 Computer Forensics and Investigations with the OU, aiming for either the PGCert, PGDip or the MSc (depending on time and finances). Course is very good, however it's different from what I was expecting. I'm about half way thru (assignment wise, as I've almost finished my second one), and while this isn't a law course, it does delve into a few Acts, Laws, etc., which is having a hard time getting into/staying in my head... Eg: Computer Misuse Act 1990, Data Protection Act 1998, Human Rights Act 1998, Thefts Act 1968, Civil Procedure Rules 1998, European Convention on Human Rights, Criminal Justice Act 1967, etc. as well as various Codes of Conduct, Protocols, Rules, Court Procedures, etc...

The problem with this qualification is that very few organisations that deliver it will not/do not do the modules that relate to the IT Professional. I was looking into this for my staff and rang up 6 different providers (in Northants and outside Northants), they all did the SWiS qualification but it was geared up towards the HLTA/Classroom Supervisors, etc... Told them that it was for IT Services and we wanted the "technical" modules like the "Provide technical support (schools)", etc... And they all said "no"

I guess it depends, you know what they say: "swings and roundabouts"

I very much doubt it, otherwise they would have done it already. After all it was started in 1970, so they can't say it was because they didn't have time

Hopefully, if it takes off, it will link in with Skills Framework for the Information Age (SFIA).

I would like that too, something along the lines of the NUT but for techs, however that would also mean that association/institute would also be a union? We can pose the questions... Something like a road map, based on job roles and the types of technology used? As not all school's may use a vanilla MS network, some may use the likes of RM. Some may not even use a MS environment, eg may use a apple network or a mixed linux environment, etc... I can see something like this being very useful

No worries, the development of the it profession is something I believe in.

I'll place my vote first. I choose "Yes, I will join (have membership in other associations as well)", as I'm already a member of the BCS. I would like it if the Institute or association that the FITS Foundation can set up if possible have links with the ECUK and the BCS to offer the Chartered status (CITP) and the professional registration ICTTech, as well as the continuation of the FITS qualification (I would also like to see the qualifications boosted back up to level 4 and 5 from the current 3 and 4), as well as develop higher qualifications (maybe level 6 and 7).

This is something that Trevor at the FITS Foundation is trying to start off - a Professional IT Association or Insititute for Educational IT Staff to assist with this sort of stuff. However the FITS foundation needs to know what volume of technicians would join such a body if it were created? To get support for anything like this they need to have firm evidence that there is a need for it and that a lot of people are crying out for it. To get agreement for it to be an Institute you need Government approval and to get that they need to see that it fills a real need. I've posted a thread/poll here, please answer. Thanks

Hi All, Following on from this thread, and talking to the FITS Foundation I was wondering how many of you would actually join an Association or Institute that caters for the IT Professionals in Education? And what would you like it to be like? A professional association, a union, etc... What would you expect it to offer? eg CPD, different membership bands like the TMIET/MIET. The FITS foundation needs to know what volume of technicians would join such a body if it were created. To get support for anything like this they need to have firm evidence that there is a need for it and that a lot of people are crying out for it. To get agreement for it to be an Institute you need Government approval and to get that they need to see that it fills a real need. Please answer honestly, after all this is your sector, your field and your future (ok it's ours, but it sounds more dramatic ). -Ken

Yes, we have twice.