EdWhittaker

Designing an RDB may not be rocket science, designing one that accommodates all the requirements of a full MIS comes pretty close. It isn't If only it were that simple! no, you misunderstand the model. The front end is relatively simple stuff. The hard bit, as you point out, is getting that to read and write to and from the db. What you need for that is a tricksy little API which does all the communication for you. There is no direct connection between the GUI and the SQL db.

I think it's brilliant that you are having a go at an OS MIS and I really hope you do well with it. We are also working towards that end, though with an open access solution rather than an OS one. People probably think we're just tilting at windmills and that we've no chance against the big players; but, hey, nothing ventured ... Sorry, sloppy terminology. I meant the db is not held in school, it out there 'in the cloud'

My point exactly! If the database is hosted and maintained for you, the API is free and the front end OS, then ANYONE can develop tools for it without paying huge licence fees and with guaranteed interoperability. At a stroke you get three big advantages: a huge burst of innovation, better quality software and lower prices. Plus you get round the traditional concerns regarding OS solutions because there would be a firm commercial base for the whole thing.

@Matt40: Brilliant!! LOL! :-)

Just read this thread through. Interesting the number of people who are apparently happy to come up with 'workarounds' to get round the failings of the MIS. Okay if you were paying 150 quid a year, you might expect to have to do that. But these systems are very expensive; I could buy a decent car for what some schools are paying annually for their MIS. Would I be happy to pay £20k for a car, only to find that it did not do left turns and I had to ‘workaround’ that by doing three right turns? I think not. Of course there is the argument "well, what's the alternative?". Good point, SIMS, CMIS, E1, Integris are all very expensive and all have their own drawbacks, so you might as well stick with what you know, workarounds an all, is the reasoning. Sometimes you just get so used to a way of working that you don’t question it. Or, you could go for an OS solution. With all respect to Scholarpack, OS MIS solutions don't really offer a viable alternative at the moment. Simply hard coding a GUI onto a database, for example, does not produce a solution flexible enough for the changing and varied demands of schools. Plus there is the worry about lack of support, documentation and training etc associated with OS solutions. What is clear is that things cannot go on as they are. I don't think schools are any longer willing to be relieved of large sums of money for inadequate software and service. I agree with GeneralDreedle's sentiments: The solution is for someone to provide an efficient, maintained web-based database together with a free API and an open source front end. Training and manuals supplied, you only pay for access to the database; neat and efficient GUI supplied free of charge. If you don't like it, if doesn't do what you want, simply re-code the front end to do what you want and use the API to do the interfacing with the database. Make your own attendance / APP / behaviour / whatever module to do EXACTLY what you want. Sell it or give to other schools if you want. A completely open access MIS. Never happen? Watch this space. ;-)

My wife told me she was going on a diet. I told her that really didn't need to as really suits being chubby. Didn't speak to me for days after that, dunno why. A guy can't give his wife a compliment these days. Anyways, she ended up going to Slimming World (Slimming World - because you're amazing) and achieving her target weight quite readily. More importantly, she hasn't put it back on again because they give you a sensible diet plan that you can stick to. As Witch says, trouble with crash diets like the Cambridge is that they are not really sustainable and you end putting the weight back on. Wife's talking to me again now and even I'm on a diet (well, I'm on two actually - you don't get enough to eat on one do you?)

You can't apply for a CRB check yourself. It HAS to be done by your employer.

Woah! I didn't see any mods weighing in with 'back on topic' when I was getting roasted. It's just that that there seems to be two sets of rules operating here, one for the big guys and one for the small guys - and guess who's getting the thick end of the stick?. Ok, had my say, back on topic...

We always provide on-site training as part of the package with our product. The reason is that people (teachers, managers, techies) WILL NOT read the manual. Teachers, in particular (and I was one myself) need to be shown 'this is how it works and this is what it does and this is how you can best use in the classroom'. I also make a point of doing follow-up visits whenever I can, as I often find schools are either not using our product effectively or are not using key tools. The most common comment being, "Oh, I didn't know it did that". Really? Well RTFM! So while I agree very much with a lot of what Scholarpack is saying, I think Tony's point is very important.

How come Phil can plug SIMS at every opportunity, but last time I merely mentioned my company's product (on another thread) I got ripped to shreds? What am I missing?

Hi Garry Well done for having a go at an alternative MIS and doubly well done for making it OS. As I said in my earlier post, things can't go on as they are; something, somewhere has to give and you you're having a go at doing something about it, which is great. Problem is that these days, developing an MIS suitable for secondary schools involves a lot more than putting a front end on a database. How do you export existing data out of, say, SIMS into your system?

To my mind, the move towards open source is more or less inevitable. I get around lots of schools in my job and I'm sensing an increasing dissatisfaction and frustration with the status quo. The stranglehold that a few major MIS providers have on the market is stifling innovation and inflating prices. Sooner or later someone is going to come up with a low cost, effective MIS with an OS API bundled with it. One of the biggest frustrations I come across is the inability of staff in school to interrogate their own MIS data because the provider does not permit access to the db. An open API would allow small providers, and indeed schools themselves, to construct a whole new range of bespoke tools for attendance, APP, behaviour or whatever. The effect of this would be to a) stimulate innovation b) reduce prices and c) improve the quality and effectiveness of software. I know there are OS MIS systems available at the moment, but really they don't come close to providing the functionality schools need.

Well as a teacher I'm disgusted! We teachers never, ever take home pens, pencils, paper, labels, envelopes, folders, er what else? oh, yes, BluTak and Sellotape (they're always handy).

Sounds like 'Jam tomorrow' to me. I'm a teacher but I've been on the receiving end of similar flannel from a head teacher. I've never yet met a head teacher who didn't have some fundamental character flaw; they're all full of BS.

20 miles and 40 minutes (average). Mostly motorway. By the way, anyone else noticed a fantastic difference between holiday and term time? During school holidays I can easily shave 10 mins off that time. Can always tell first day back for kids, traffic is a nightmare! How many people take their kids to school via a motorway??!

So, would that be a buffet lunch, then; or something more formal?

email Rob at Cables and Leads, Scart Leads, hdmi cables, VGA, USB, Ethernet Network If he hasn't got one he can probably get one.

Hightower, give it the 'death bed test'. Imagine lying on your death bed (hopefully many) years in the future and thinking back over your life. Which would you regret the most, having a go and possibly finding it's not all it's cracked up to be, or not having given it a go at all? Which would be worse, knowing how it panned out, good or bad, or not knowing at all and thinking "I should have..." Sorry if that's a bit philosophical but I find it a useful test for big decisions in life - got me out of my first marriage anyway!! Good luck

Hi My name is Ed and I'm an alcoh ... ah, sorry, wrong forum. I'm not a geek, I only have a smattering of geek - just enough to get by in the pub with the IT crowd. I'm an ex teacher (can I see hackles rising already?) but I now run a commercial company which provides an on-line behaviour and rewards management facility to schools. I have a very geeky partner who manages all the computery thingies. Why am I here? I am interested in open source and data exchange developments in schools. Cheers

Not really, no product name, no company name, no direction to website - if that was my best sales pitch, I'd be out of business by now ;-) As an ex teacher and behaviour manager, I have an interest in how behaviour and rewards info is logged in schools. Also how and to what extent that data is used or analysed by pastoral leaders in school.

Hi I too am a first time poster. On some systems, teachers have a grace period of several minutes after posting an incident. During this time they can edit or delete the submission. After that time the entry is locked against editing. After all, what the teacher writes makes up the pupil record - no-one would expect teachers to be able to walk into a pastoral managers office, open the filing cabinet, take out a child's record then remove something or alter it? Deleting items from on-line systems amounts to the same thing and it should not be so easy to do it.

We are a small company providing an on-line data management and analysis facility for schools. We are currently developing a new data management product. Our USP will be to provide a lean, simple to use, cost effective alternative to the bloated, inefficient and expensive applications currently marketed to schools by big corporations. Your role will be to construct the GUI for this application using JavaScript and with the use of an API to connect to the database. We are a non-hierarchical company with a strong social conscience and we embrace the concepts of open source and the free sharing of data. Our mission is to make a difference in British education, not make a fortune for our shareholders. Specific Skills and Qualities Required: Desirable: Experience of ExtJS, design and construction of GUIs and user input forms. A flair for graphic design would be very advantageous. Good working knowledge of SIMS or CMIS would be useful. Essential: High level of skill in and knowledge of JavaScript. Must be enthusiastic, flexible, adaptable and willing and able to contribute ideas and work as part of a close-knit, friendly team. A good sense of humour is essential! Initially 6 months with the possibility of a permanent post for the right candidate. Location: Stockport, Cheshire Initial Salary: £16 - 25k p/a, depending on skills offered Call 0845 527 6856 for an informal chat with Ed or Andrew or mail [email protected]