spannerman2

Indeed!!..many thanks to all of you who have picked up this ball and run with it..I've learnt some interesting stuff reading all the posts..apologies for being a bit excitable, I don't do 'balanced'

I was going to reply to david81 (above) who (like so many now) knows one thing and that is the current model has to change..the details are to be worked out my suggestions are just one of the pot...and then I read your post which translates as.. .." this is how it is, no matter how esoteric, expensive and/or outdated the app, we must keep them going..any change just means more new stuff'!! Economic reality? Cuts? Just how rich are you? and... Dreamweaver as good school software, please God who is still around dumb enough to pay web designers who insist on their Dreamweaver CSSs as 'essential' to the web site you pay for..10 years ago ok but now?..soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.

You may be right and at the price you say I think it's too much to make th echanges happen..but the edu prize is such a big one maybe with gov help?

Forget the rent period and price as is now. The easiest thing in the world for a mega corp is to pitch the price right..my post suggested the right price not the press quoted prices..we all know that the likes of Google and Microsoft for that matter could give it away free to education if they wanted to..and they just might

You just can not say that any change means that it will simply cost more...the logical corollary of this (oft repeated) assertion about any change is that the only 'solution' is a tweak of the status quo...sorry you of course CAN keep saying just that but fewer are listenng.

Yeh, there you're right the MIS lockin is total, almost a crime in my opinion...just when does the obligation expire..never?

Spend more, not less on school ICT - Spannerman's Edublog oops

Spend more on school ICT at Bett2011 Reda my blog Spend more, not less on school ICT - Spannerman's Edublog John

Even more radical response to cuts, read my blog Spend more, not less on school ICT - Spannerman's Edublog we should spend much more

Loving IT, looks like Linux XFCE circa 2005,

We should spend 10% of our budget on ICT in school not the 6% max at present..then we can start agin and save tech jobs. Read my Computer World Blog for a Happy New Year.

zope would suit..but it's unfair to ask folk in your position to find out why..what we need is a mega rich philanthropist to market the correct free solution (maybe in Xfactor breaks) to small schools..oh gosh..they are not formimg a cue..better sign up with Capita then

Hi Guys, I am back in College-world and using MIS stuff in anger once again. I had forgotten the difference between being a vendor, tech-supporter and user of said systems. Ours is just as proprietary and just as crap as all the others on this thread. The good thing is that although lock-in is complete it is simultaneously inconceivable that the same system will be in place in ten years time...why is that? expensive, restrictive, of limited utility = yesterdays indulgence

Great stuff..as a long standing apologist for FOSS I have got to agree with much you are saying. The NHS CIO is adamant that they would not contemplate a desktop migration to FOSS due to the overhead of training and compatibility. Sirius PLC (no less) advised Bristol Council likewise, and my experience of the teaching profession concurs with them both. my feverent wish is for this debate to stop, i have no desire to replace windows 7 with ubuntu or MS office with Oracle Office with all the pain and no real gain practically or ethically. I dont like re training, i like acquiring new skills and taking advantage of new opportunities the FOSS Windows debate seems to be middle aged blokes squbbling over yesterdays broken models. Betamax v VHS, duh what's either?

well beaten i would say

Came across this paper on Open Schools by Gary Clawson: Today sees the publication a report from NWLG CEO Gary Clawson on the savings that would follow from a move to open source, open services and open content in schools and across local authorities. Gary argues that a switch to open source and open content would offer 25% savings on IT spend with relative ease, with a further 30-35% if LAs looked seriously at re-modelling how ICT is implemented and supported. Across a local authority with some 20 secondaries and 120 primaries, this would amount to over £1.4M pa. Oh yes, and you get more flexible, sustainable IT and systems which support generic transferable skills in the classroom. http://www.nwlg.org/downloads/docs/papers/openservices.pdf Trouble is having tussled with edugeekers too often myself I found that when I read it all I thought was 'yeah yeah' Argh! what had happened to me? Truth is, what Gary said was true enough but seemed so old fashioned, like five years ago when I was banging on hard about the same thing. The trouble is, if it really happened (schools and LAs going FOSS) even with you guys 100% convinced it would still take probably three years to achieve. Things have changed so much in the last two years... so in three more? Already, as I constantly posit, the existing proprietary model is anachronistic (but not because it is proprietary), therefore it follows 'why replace one dead model with a cheaper dead model?'. This issue will be the FOSS problem for the older generation So I would guess it is too late for Gary's FOSS revolution, shucks.

harsh

@grumbledook Fair point, i am working quite hard on just the thing you describe..a walk through for my imagined network nirvana Computerworld will allow me to use my blog to set this out in posts over the coming weeks. It will be shot down in flames no doubt but I am really encouraged by the positivity of some of the comments on this thread..I just feel this is the right direction to go. ps I don't want to shoot the messengers, the hard working network tech is just a cog in the wheel set in motion by the syllabus makers and gov-no-brainers but revolutions come always from below and the techs are the ones who will actually make stuff happen, so stirred up techs are in a better place than sleepy hollow techs.

@localzuk just read your latest reply..I'll reiterate..the school is there to serve the purpose of teaching and learning. If the needs legal or otherwise of any IT structure obstruct this then a different model is needed to enable it. I have been a pro-sysadmin so I know exactly what the problems are that's why I know the current model (that supports your job) is the wrong one for educating. Maybe you would be happier in a bank?

@PiqueABoo Retired teacher 25 years: Chem, Biol, ICT, Computing: 6 Years Sys Admin (Windows and Linux-Samba_windows); 5 years with FOSS consultancy...now freelance bolshy pundit. so you were close! @pete the 'bootable playground' for teaching IT is exactly what is needed. After that we need the quality tecahers and a sane study guide but nothin can happen until that network room is liberated!! Thanks

In the real world we have fundamental truths: 1) Schools exist for the purpose of teaching and learning The teachers are the principle vectors for this process and thus all non-teaching staff are there to solely to facilitate this process. 2) The quality of teaching and learning of Computer and ICT related subjects is at an all time low resulting in the UK producing the fewest computer graduates in Europe. Ergo, something is really badly going wrong. In my opinion the fundamental mistake was to mix the business-admin component of IT which has all of the associated security and legal constraints with the business of teaching. A Windows network is so fragile in every sense that no sane admin would ever encourage kids or teachers or parents to explore or experiment with it. Unfortunately the very nature of the teaching business is that both teachers and learners have to do just that if any high level of attainment are to be achieved. The 'network' has effectively bitten off the hand that fed it in the first place. It's not really an issue of Open Source or proprietary software its one of freedom. Not much of that in Stalag Network and you guys are the camp guards.

Hi SYNACK, my point is it is the reality of how things work 'now' that is the problem. I'm not just having a go (well ok just a bit), you are completely right in saying just that. The 'reality of now' however is not a reality in the sense that it is an immutability, even for the sort-medium term. If I was in Soviet Union c 1975 the 'reality' of the situation would be overwhelming and it would be futile and dangerous to suggest doing stuff a different way..gulag beckons. But the reality of the current ICT model that so restricts us is that not only is it very very new but very fragile too. Miles is saying that this quasi reality should change:)

As an occasional contributor to these pages who rarely finds favour with other contributors I read the responses to Miles' paper (ok post) with interest. Same old edugeek responses I am afraid to say. The existing ICT in schools is maintained (often very competently indeed) by you guys (and it is nearly 100% male) but the suspicion is that the incumbent technical professionals have so much invested in the monster that they helped find its current form that any change is seen as a threat. Miles' suggestions are not even radical (sorry Miles you will never be a radical) but they elicit the usual sucking through teeth, pipe in hand, brown coated response. Think Wapping...if you are too young ask your Dad, he was probably a typesetter. Miles is right and not radical so why dont you thinks so?

My feeling yet to be borne out is that indeed Russell is right, the whole notion of Academy is changed at a stroke and along with that is my experience that spending on LA sponosred and subsidised services for children's support will fall off a cliff..they will not be able to resist keeping the cash and buying things..shiny things..it's human nature. Jeez I spent too much of my lump sum on something shiny..I knew I would