spannerman2

..apologies for grasping at a lone supporter of my thesis, that is, there WILL be more spending on ICT in the Academy model ..given that do we geeks just sit back and implement any b*****ks (as before 'gissa a job) or do we get a bit pro-active and use the experience to promote a) what has worked or b ) what we believe will work or do we just sit back and droid away?

I'm still plugging away..VAT exemption you are right is another way the Acadamies will be better off than the trad Indeps. They will also simply drop paying for those extra services provided by LA..getting statements support etc will be really really hard you watch. The question is begged, if I am am right, (and am not making headway on this), but if I am right on what will the Academies spend their new money on? Should we geeks be getting excited about new developments or use this as the seed cash for some bluesky stuff...OR..will they just spend it on Shiny Toys as normal? (here's our new tennis court, here's our new computer suite, here's aour performing arts editing suite..you've heard it ) J

some, a few, a very few, of the best Indep, did pay more (I was one of them) but that is long gone. Sure Dulwich, KCS Wimbledon, St Pauls, Westminster, Eton still pay more but that's 5 schools...there may be thousnads of Acadamies. The days of attracting good staff are long gone. GCSE and AS are too easy to need such folk and the 2008-2010 salarie sreflect this. Salaries will go down. Money will be freed up to spend on toys. Really

Hi, my original aricle, so a couple of explanatory bits: 1) I think salaries will reduce because they now CAN be reduced and they are lower in the Indep sector for that reason. 2) By outsourcing, I apologise; there are indeed superb outsourced support companies... what I should have made clear was I mean the likes of Capita, Serco and RM who are not superb, don't deliver value and don't give a toss about schools because their deal is with the LA 3) Acadamies will be better off and I think many will invest in ultra-fast broadband but only time will prove me right or wrong What I am struggling with is how anyone can be disagreeing with me

I really get the sense from this forum that 'edugeeks', who by and large are( I assume) IT support staff perceive that there is a problem with getting teachers on board with IT developments. Looking at the educational background of ALL of the new coalition cabinet (I am really that much of a nerd) I predict that a) there will be a focus on teacher-lead control of what happens in class and b) a very pragmatic even jaundiced attitude to IT. I think it is time that techs 'love bomb' teachers before the collective worms turn

An absolutely brilliant and accurate summation. In effect you have just described Ground Zero for school ICT. The question is then begged: how can we (ie not them) define a new ICT that gets teachers back on board and makes new spending seem attractive again. Also to preserve jobs how can the tech talent be elevated to become more than fixers of kit that otherwise would not work much?

NAHT, noticed that the Headteachers are rebelling against outsourcing scam contracts (TES, Education Exec and many other places) source of their info was Edugeek forum..well done. But as this is a Blue Sky blog, what would happen if ICT spending in schools was cut by 90%..no really what would actually happen?

I know G-Cloud is deoas not cover everything but surely you agree that 'everything' will be cost cutting and that 'innovation' will be a synonym for doing things differently..ie cheaply..vote for change

Folk, Capita and RM 'own' BSF: BSF will go G-Cloud whatever the election result. Outsourcing + G-Cloud = no edu-geeks...= a billion quid saved... I know I keep saying this but you have to do something we are looking at a whole generation of redundant ICT in schools engineers/technicians.

genuinely everyone I have talked to who have done the sums have said it will cost more..it's a scandal..first ever national ICT technicians strike is required

I think much along the same lines, an ICT only largely Free Open Source (RM have consiberable long standing expertise inthi sarea) offering would free up a lot of the BSF issues

Spannerman2 is now a freelance; no longer bound to act as a paid open source software apologist, I am free to ramble on about all things School and ICT. I am typing this using IE8 browser (only kidding). I want to contribute to Grumbledook's Blue Sky thread because the impending cuts after the election will mean that ICT in schools will have to justify its cost-benefit as never before . I think frankly that it will have to re-invent itself. This forum is where there is the most experience and expertise in the country so where better to post. I have a new blog of my own at Computerworld Blogs where you can disagree with me as usual

the point precisely, as you say, a truly dreadful piece of software (pieces of .netted incompatible programs) with an effective monopoly. When they have 100% (in the name of compatibility and with the help of G-Cloud) there will be no alternative at all. They can charge whomsover they want whatsoever they want Pure unadulterated Soviet_Capitalism what an oxymoron to conjure with!

very true, we are excluded from BSF, as are you folk. Unfortunately BSF is run as a cartel (allegedly) whereby the chief contractors (building) contract in transparent tenders via the procurement frameworks but then basically sub-contract ICT to their mates. As we in FOSS tend to be no-one's 'mates' we don't get a look in. But rather than spin off too much at a tangent, the point you illustrate is the sheer powerlessness of the ability to change school ICT within the current model. Proprietary software lock in (helped by over-genarous gov grants earlier on and latterly extreme edu-discounts) + the G-Cloud + BSF closed shops, means that self-determination for schools is all but gone. I am advocating FOSS adoption as the last gasp to wrest back some freedom and control of your futures before that door slams so hard that you all might as well pack up get another job. I'm not even saying that FOSS is so marvelous (judged purely as software that does stuff) it's just that no-one controls it and it's free. I'm hoping that the point that is coming over is that FOSS evangelists like myself and the company for whom I work, whilst loving our software, do not have an unrealistic view of it..what we are passionate about is the freedom for self-determination. That's why we get so steamed up when we see the likes of Capita.Sims with 80% of the MIS market mandating the use of Windows Servers and refusing to release their API's and so on. John

I think you are correct in saying a consensus has emerged and your analysis is spot on..especially agree with the last paragraph. The way I think FOSS can help, even in a managed outsource model (which of course FOSS firms like us would benefit from) is on pricing to schools. Of course even now, espcially in industry proprietary software remains expensive so FOSS firms have a natural price advantage, much less so in school due to the edu-pricing stuff. But the real attractor seems to be the risk mitgation that results from the lack of lock in. FOSS service pricing remains low after adoption because the firms can simply switch to another FOSS based outfit (and there are now loads!) who simply take over. For this reason I think that schools with a good FOSS mix can produce a mixed environment as you suggest and save money using FOSS outsourced thin-client services.

I agree with the previous post so much. The 'one size fits all approach' regarding the OS or the apps is not the effective way to meet school's needs. Indeed we adopt a mixed approach on all our ostensibly FLOSS deployments. The warning I am sounding is not about what is good for schools and by implication our children but what a government wants to do. It was 3 years ago when the quango Becta announced that school ICT was unsustainable, and that was before the bust. Then over nearly two years ago now they aggressively renegotiated the MOU with MS to reduce the cost of buying and licencing software..and were very effective indeed, and this was before the bust. Then comes the bust. Now ICT really is too expensive and the dominant costs are HR followed by power consumption. Then less than one year ago the Cabinet Office was charged with creating the G_cloud and the App Store on teh back of the NHS ICT project (god so expensive). They may fall flat on their faces, and I hope they do, but a G-Cloud + ultra low cost effectively thin client solid state computers solve the HR problem and the power problem at a stroke. They are going to try and do it..and the quality of provision won't even come into it.

..with G-Cloud you only need browser-enabled kit on school site or at home. -This does not need maintenance or technical support at all. -the viewer can be anything from a smart phone to a netbook to a 6watt thin client. that's why they are so keen

completely in tune with both posts; a) see you at Bletchley it should be a good day out..cool location b) Couldn't agree more about using FOSS where appropriate. Evangelism invariably goes too far and self defeats. I guess we suggest that more FOSS is possible than is generally accepted in some schools. Sometimes get a bit rough about it. Our corporate motto is 'control through freedom'. (corporate and freedom = oxymoron ..I keep telling our CEO) but... We all need control over our lives, careers and so on, often it's a aspiration more than a reality. I truly believe that FOSS is more than just free stuff but that in there somewhere is real freedom...sounds all a bit idealistic but hey that's the well-spring of inspiration mes amis] John

Gosh, a lot of posts to read through. I do have a few general comments so forgive me not taking the trouble to do the @soandso bit. If it does not apply to do please don't be offended. 1) No I'm not trolling this forum, let alone without the boss' knowledge..I was told to sign up to join in the debate. 2) Really really surprised at the general level of hostility to FOSS and lack of knowledge about it. The thread seems dominated by a few 'great and the good' opinion setters. 3) I really do know exactly how school ICT support works, having been a Windows SysAdmin even until quite recently so I know what a lock in looks like, I know what fear of change looks like, and I know when edu-discounting amounts to bribery For the record the stuff I write is meant in general to be provocative, but not in nasty way, more to stimulate debate and raise some tough points in what I hope is a humorous way. Nor, am I scaremongering. It was us at Sirius that got the BBC to back off from a Windows only I-player, we also got the Cabinet Office to admit they were planning a Microsoft Only fully outsourced G-Cloud and forced them to change direction (which is why you are getting a Private Cloud rather than US/Dublin version) Trust me I am not making stuff up about loss of jobs but you have to write in non-straightforward way or the lawyers turn up ..and they do. Finally of course we are FOSS evangelists so are RM PLC, they for example only supply Windows Exchange E-Mail if it is specifically requested ! And lastly I do not negate/ spoil my arguments with a bad tone or a few inaccuracies..be easy on that just hear the general message..all is about to change are you folk ready?

For full article on why educational discounts and the G-Cloud spells trouble go to Is the UK Government really set to shed 10,000 School ICT Staff? | Sirius Corporation plc

Forgive me if this seems a little provocative but I must ask: Does anyone on this thread or indeed others, actually believe that they will be in post to oversee the introduction of Windows 7 into schools? Check out the stuff from the Digital Britain project and the schools open standards literature. -The private G-Cloud run from the Cabinet Office will happen (whatever Gov). -The Gov App-Store to go with it will be a reality too.. -As Steven Crowe ( top boy at Becta) says 'all workstations in schools will login instantly..no more waiting' oh yes and how will you do that? Yep I know. Wake up folks..saving in ICT is the order of the day..we all agree on that..did anyone mention that means no more IT technicians or Network Managers? The Windows edu-discounts inadvertently produced an unsustainable HR overhead (you) to look after those systems..no more if the Gov has its way .It'll save over £40 million in wages BTW

Sorry if my article on FOSS savings in schools should have struck a nerve. But really, given the unrealistic education discount bribes handed out to technicians to do nothing to change from their comfort zone status quo, do you think balanced pros and cons 'one the one hand ..on the other' rhetoric would have the slightest effect at all...it hasn't so far so what is different now? Of course FOSS would save schools money the clue is it's free. The real savings though come from FOSS philosphy, do new things, embrace new technologies rather than slavishly upgrade to the latest vendor's new offer. How do you quantify this? BTW I thought the article was funny, it was meant to be, got a few laughs.