DBMan

SQL exists as a data access 'language' and should be the first port of call when running queries/reports against a database. That's it's job. It's not hard and is widely understood by millions...there are only 4 basic commands...SELECT is the main one. The data model (schema) is the only issue. Once that is understood the rest should be easy. Vendors often don't want you to understand it either because it's crap and they're embarassed by it or there is a claim of intellectual property surrounding it's design.

Personally, I've never struggled with the distinction between SELECT and DROP ;-) Standard SIMS tools and business objects clearly don't keep everyone happy, as witnessed by the many threads about access to SIMS data.

Sound advice. SIMS runs on top of plain old SQL Server, which in this case is provided by the end user (school) rather than the application provider (Capita). As it is 'just' SQL Server, you can use the standard tools to interact with the database. Management Studio can be used to poke around and find what's in there and to run queries. As has been made clear on several posts, running SELECT queries can do no harm whatsoever...apart from maybe slowing down the system if you write a bit of bad SQL. Why not take a copy of the database and run queries against the copy? It's your data and your DBMS software, remember! Although the schema may be a mess in some folks eyes, using the built-in views that SIMS already uses will surely help - a view is simply a query that can be used as a data source just like a physical table. Either query the views using a SELECT query or take a copy and query it there. DON'T MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE SIMS DATABASE!!!!

Mike, I have been reading all about 4Matrix as a result of your posts. Most impressive. I agree with your point about not wanting data to leave schools. Can you shed any light on the advice you say was given by Becta (RIP) on this issue (FAQ page): ..."We do not as a rule accept data from schools because this goes against advice given to schools by by Becta" Thanks!

Common analyses backed up by proper data access. Very well said and hardly asking for the world on a plate!

True, but schools are held back by the fact that the data captured in 'MIS' systems such as SIMS is not as readily accessible as it should be, due largely to the 'off-limits' schema, nor is there a suitable method of accesing the data via pre-canned or custom reports delivered via an easy-to-use interface. If these issues were resolved the need to pay again for all of the bolt-on capability offered elsewhere would rapidly evaporate. That's exactly what happens with SIMS...it captures the data but won't let you at it in any meaningful way, hence the bolt-ons that have arisen. How may different ways can schools really all want to see performance data reported??? It should be delivered via the 'MIS' applications, then they would truly deserve the categorisation 'MIS'!

@Kozan (#1) Great news! All competition is healthy etc. Residuals are of prime interest imho. Some analysis is done in SIMS etc but there are lots of homegrown EXcel apps out there, which represents a lot of duplicated effort for what is conceptually very simple. Focus on what problem(s) you are trying to solve and that should guide you. Best way to get this is to talk to as many potential end users as possible. I'm sure you can find a few in your customer base. @resin1 (#2) Agreed that MIS providers should be doing this. Is it even an MIS system if it doesn't? @vikpaw (#8) Agreed. Looking at what's out there at present is always the best place to start. @skunk (#9) "we cannot afford five systems that each do a little bit well" - especially if budgets get squished over the next few years, as seems likely. @MattMitchell (#10) If it does get outsourced, the team that developed a lot of reports and dashboards using SIMS 'business objects' layer for Rochester/CACI is still out there. I can put Bromcom in touch. @Tyiell (#13) Do share! @garrysaddington (#17) "What is the point of collecting all the data in a MIS to then have to export it somewhere else to do something useful with it". Well said. Makes a mockery of the 'MIS' label really. The fact that the SIMS SQL Server schema (which is YOUR database) is 'undocumented' and supposedly off-limits for even read access is a major part of the problem. This is what needs to change, and quickly. That would have a dramatic impact on assessment analysis apps. @MikeBostock (#31) An open source style collaboration would save a lot of time that's currently spent duplicating each other's efforts. SourceForge.net provides a good framework for this approach. @Setra (#33) A collaborative effort (see above) or an 'affordable' offering from a company like Bromcom may bring that reality closer!

AQA Enhanced Results Analysis for teachers Aim High All comments greatly received!

When considering an off-site solution I would need to cover the following points to my satisfaction before recommending it for further assessment: - who has access to the data at the remote premises? - are the servers/storage in a shared server room, and if so which other companies staff have access to the server room? - are all staff properly vetted? (should cover evryone with access to server room) - how is the data secured during transmission, capture, processing and reporting? - how is the data backed up, how often and where are the backups held? - how quickly can it be restored and how can I prove this? - what if the internet connection at there end is lost...are we toast? - how can the results be warranted as accurate against my SIMS data given that no direct access to SIMS data is possible for comparisons? - what happens to the data if the provider goes bust/loses interest/gets taken over etc? - who owns the intellectual property if the firm goes bust – it there any escrow covering this? - can I obtain explicit permission from each data subject before I send their personal data to an off-site company? Can I justift the time required to get this permission? - why are they not a SIMS partner…if they can’t/won’t pay £5k to become one do I want to send them my sensitive data? - price per pupil per year (must be LOW) - length of contract (I avoid multi-year lock-ins as requirements change and suppliers should fight for my money!) As well as technical, DPA and data security issues, I would also look into any company that I was considering sending sensitive data to: - how many staff and their roles i.e. if the main techie leaves where does that leave us...stranded? - when was the company founded? - who are the directors? - what is their track record in this field? I’d much prefer a SIMS-based solution that leaves the data where it is and uses the capability we’ve already paid for, backed by a company like Capita that’s been trading for more than a year or two. One of the ex-Business Objects consultants I bumped into recently pointed me at this from CACI which may be more my style: CACI - Education He says he worked on it a few years ago and that it runs against SIMS data without the need for exporting data and all the issues that brings. Anyone used it??? I also hear from the same fellow that there is a SIMS-based enhanced reporting capability about to be announced by some ex-BO bods. Competition is always healthy imho :-)

Is this what you mean: SAP - SAP BusinessObjects Portfolio: Connecting People, Information, and Businesses If so, I'm not sure if it will help. BO is famously complex.

Hi Matt (and others), my sources advise that the BO inside SIMS is in fact the real deal BO engine white-labelled. The chap making this assertion is ex-BO, works as a freelance BO consultant and has worked on BO within SIMS. I am in no position to argue with him, although he could be wrong, of course ;-)

Hi all, I've been looking at enhancing the performance reporting available from SIMS on behalf of a local school. After reading a lot of posts on this (most excellent) forum, I think I have gleaned the following: - SIMS has Business Objects capability - existing reporting capability is hard to use - no direct access to the SQL Server database is allowed, including read only (!) - existing tools must be used to export data from SIMS So, it appears that if schools are unhappy with the existing SIMS reporting capability they either have to master Business Objects, pay for Business Objects consultancy (ouch), or use another tool that feeds off SIMS data. Am I right so far???