zag Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Not really a question this one but I've just moved over our last server to fully SSD storage. It was a video server and the last migration to solid state. I think the total cost was about £4,000 to move all the servers, we bought 300GB and 600GB Intel 320 series drives and have 10 physical servers. I'm looking forward to not having to worry any more about hard disks dieing and the speed improvements are incredible. Anyone else gone this way?
localzuk Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Not worrying about hard disk dying - dunno about that. SSDs die too. However, yes, our storage server is SSD for some stuff, and SAS 10k for slower stuff (no need for it all to be SSD, just like there's no need for everyone to drive Ferraris). We're still transitioning over, but so far our RDS servers are all on the new system, our SCCM, Print, PKI and KMS servers are all on it too, as will a DirectAccess server also. Then during the next break, shared storage will be moving over. Profiles will be on SSD (although roaming profiles will actually being turned off too as there's no need for them), and any other servers we migrate (eg. SIMS). Eventually we're going to be moving from 12 physical servers with a NAS as the storage system (running SATA disks) to the new system which is 2 x high speed servers, the storage server and 10GbE between them and the switch.
zag Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 Nice setup you have planned there! I think the main advantage is the speed I can do things on between the servers. Backups have reduced almost 75% in time. Someone has already said to me today how responsive the new video server has been. Also I've never had an SSD fail yet. We buy all Intels and they seem rock solid. Its a real calming thought knowing they are more reliable than hard disks. I've bought some good backup PSU's as I did hear that some people had a problem with power cutting out and SSD's but I've not seen that myself.
localzuk Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Yeah, we went down the HP route for everything tbh. They've served us well so far! 2 HP DL380 Gen8s with 2x E5-2690 CPUs and 90GB RAM each in. They have some non-SSDs in for booting Windows 2012 for Hyper-V too. Then the storage server is another HP DL380 with 13 x 100GB HP Enterprise SSDs and 11 x 300GB SAS 10k drives. Interconnected by 10GbE copper cables into a Procurve 5406zl. They're so fast! Even with all 60 thin clients in use, watching video on youtube or whatever, it barely makes the CPU work at all.
zag Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 Monster servers! We did ours DIY, just bought a load of Dell R320s and added intel SSD's for 300 quid each. Total price for each server was £1,200. added a few 600GB SSD's for the storage and backup machines and was good to go.
localzuk Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Yeah, I know. They were originally bought as VDI servers but that idea was scrapped by the interim manager as they decided to go with fat clients instead. They were originally specced for local SSDs but I decided to make better use of it by putting in a dedicated storage device. I think the 3 servers plus 10GbE stuff came in at £32k. Which is ridiculous, and I'd never have specced it that way myself, as that amount of cash could build a much more resilient system than we've got. But we're stuck with it (not that I'm complaining!!!).
jamesfed Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 WOW I wish I had the cash to do a full storage server over to SSD - how is everyone finding non HP SSDs inside HP servers any issues with the RAID controllers not liking them? VDI and RDS servers all on SSD for servers but that's it for the time being Both just fly along!
robknowles Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 We have SSDs only for Virtual Desktops at the moment. We have a Dell R710 Server running Datacore (on top of Windows 2008 R2) with 3 x 960GB OCZ RevoDrive X2 Cards (loved the performance indications that @jamesfed videos gave from his Hyper-V/VDI In A Box demo), running VMware View Images. Our ESXi Hosts connect to this via iSCSI. Very very quick - makes VDI Usable now, where-as lots of 15K RPM Disks didn't!! In fact I had to upgrade to 10Gbits/s Cards just to get the performance from it and even then there's probably more needed. Our new Citrix based setup (XenDesktop VDI Edition on top of XenServer) runs on a Supermicro Cloud Chasis (8 Nodes within 3U) - each node has a single SSD Card (were OCZ Vertex - 5 out of the original 8 died within two months - now replaced with Intel SSD). Work lovely and fast!! Reminds me I must post about this some day. Probably will look at SSDs for other Servers (SQL predominately) and userprofiles/software shares, but that's it. For normal documents it's too expensive at present. Cheers, Rob 1
Arthur Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I've bought some good backup PSU's as I did hear that some people had a problem with power cutting out and SSD's but I've not seen that myself. If you take your SSDs apart you'll find six 470µF capacitors inside that enable the controller to write data safely back to the drive in the event of sudden power loss. http://i.imgur.com/p5Hzna3.jpg
jamesfed Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 We have SSDs only for Virtual Desktops at the moment. We have a Dell R710 Server running Datacore (on top of Windows 2008 R2) with 3 x 960GB OCZ RevoDrive X2 Cards (loved the performance indications that @jamesfed videos gave from his Hyper-V/VDI In A Box demo), running VMware View Images. Our ESXi Hosts connect to this via iSCSI. Very very quick - makes VDI Usable now, where-as lots of 15K RPM Disks didn't!! In fact I had to upgrade to 10Gbits/s Cards just to get the performance from it and even then there's probably more needed. Our new Citrix based setup (XenDesktop VDI Edition on top of XenServer) runs on a Supermicro Cloud Chasis (8 Nodes within 3U) - each node has a single SSD Card (were OCZ Vertex - 5 out of the original 8 died within two months - now replaced with Intel SSD). Work lovely and fast!! Reminds me I must post about this some day. Probably will look at SSDs for other Servers (SQL predominately) and userprofiles/software shares, but that's it. For normal documents it's too expensive at present. Cheers, Rob Great to hear that the SSDs are helping your VDI!
zag Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Probably will look at SSDs for other Servers (SQL predominately) and userprofiles/software shares, but that's it. For normal documents it's too expensive at present. Are they really that expensive though? We've been buying 600GB intels for £600 quid each which if you work it out for a server isn't actually that much. We pair them with a 300GB system drive and you've already got 900GB to play with. I've got 2 file servers that are mirrored using that exact setup and they cost half the price the old disk based RAID5 file server was 4 years ago.
localzuk Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Are they really that expensive though? We've been buying 600GB intels for £600 quid each which if you work it out for a server isn't actually that much. We pair them with a 300GB system drive and you've already got 900GB to play with. I've got 2 file servers that are mirrored using that exact setup and they cost half the price the old disk based RAID5 file server was 4 years ago. If you're happy to go with the Intels, then you'll be cheaper than, say, HPs enterprise models. HP charge abount £370 for a 100GB SSD...
zag Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) If you're happy to go with the Intels, then you'll be cheaper than, say, HPs enterprise models. HP charge abount £370 for a 100GB SSD... Yeh Dell do the same, ridiculous really. Intel are the most reliable SSD on the market, I see no reason to go with anyone else. Edited January 23, 2013 by zag
robknowles Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Are they really that expensive though? We've been buying 600GB intels for £600 quid each which if you work it out for a server isn't actually that much. We pair them with a 300GB system drive and you've already got 900GB to play with. I've got 2 file servers that are mirrored using that exact setup and they cost half the price the old disk based RAID5 file server was 4 years ago. They are certainly coming down in price. I've seen the OCZ RevoDrive 960GB PCIe for around £800 in a couple of places recently (can't remember where though). Compared to SAS Drives they are still move expensive which is perfectly fine for file storage, but in a few years time I will definitely consider it.
zag Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 Good review on "mid level" data center SSD's here. I really dont get the point of buying them though, Most of our servers have very small daily IO, especially writing data. WHOMP! Micron drops middle ground server and storage SSD ? The Register
Tallwood_6 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Yeh Dell do the same, ridiculous really. Intel are the most reliable SSD on the market, I see no reason to go with anyone else. There is a reason why those drives are expensive, basically write endurance and consistent performance over a number of years, many use SLC flash vs MLC found in most consumer grade SSDs.
zag Posted January 24, 2013 Author Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) There is a reason why those drives are expensive, basically write endurance and consistent performance over a number of years, many use SLC flash vs MLC found in most consumer grade SSDs. The write endurance is totally irrelevant in most real world situations. I proved it in another thread somewhere that our Sims server (on ssd) could run for something stupid like 200 years before the wear levelling ran out. I could maybe understand if it was a caching server in a data center but other than that its a pointless statistic Edited January 24, 2013 by zag
Tallwood_6 Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Yes untimately they are aimed at those intending to run heavy workload databases which can burn through program/erase cycles.
Ric_ Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I proved it in another thread somewhere that our Sims server (on ssd) could run for something stupid like 200 years before the wear levelling ran out. I'd like to see how quickly I could wear out an SSD under 'normal' usage. What tool did you use to measure the IO on your existing server?
gshaw Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I guess only time will tell on how well the Intels stand up vs "Enterprise" SSDs, depends if you're willing to run the risk of a bunch of them dying in a year or two time if the worst happens vs the speed increase you get right now
SimonD Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 If you take your SSDs apart you'll find six 470µF capacitors inside that enable the controller to write data safely back to the drive in the event of sudden power loss. Mine look a bit different:
zag Posted January 24, 2013 Author Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see how quickly I could wear out an SSD under 'normal' usage. What tool did you use to measure the IO on your existing server? I think it was this one SsdReady: Life measurement and monitoring tool for solid-state drives but the trial ran out so I uninstalled it. The data was something like 400mb writes a day (yes seriously that low) for a 1000 pupil school who use Sims extensively. We've run Sims on an SSD for 2 and a half years now and the tool reported 97% lifespan. Not sure how accurate it is but its nice to know. Edited January 24, 2013 by zag
Ric_ Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 I think it was this one SsdReady: Life measurement and monitoring tool for solid-state drives but the trial ran out so I uninstalled it. The data was something like 400mb writes a day (yes seriously that low) for a 1000 pupil school who use Sims extensively. We've run Sims on an SSD for 2 and a half years now and the tool reported 97% lifespan. Not sure how accurate it is but its nice to know. That is very low... do you store the database in RAM and write back once or twice a day? I'm not entirely sure that I am running that tool correctly because my desktop thinks it will be writing 38GB per day :-\ Out of interest, how long does the Intel tool say you have left on your database logfile drive and backup servers? (see http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455)
zag Posted January 24, 2013 Author Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) 99% lol From my experience with MS SQL server it uses very little disk writes, I was suprised. I guess it does it all in RAM most of the time. Edited January 24, 2013 by zag
Ric_ Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 @zag: That is very low utilisation... What about the backup server?
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