Windows 8 Store - am I missing something, or this LESS manageable than the iPad?

[AngryTechnician]

I've been looking at the Windows Store today, and have come to the conclusion that I am either missing something huge, or the Windows Store is an almost unmitigated disaster for admins.

 

Here's why:

 

 

1. You can't push install an app?

 

Any app from the Store, including a free one, has to be installed manually by the user? Really?

 

2. Sideloading is only available if the publisher makes a package for it? And it's per-user?

 

Even though we've paid for Windows 8 Enterprise, you can only install Windows 8 apps without the store if the publisher specifically provides you with a .appx package to allow you to do that. You can't just take any app from the store and mass deploy it. Also, the install is per-user, not per-machine, and you have to use a PowerShell script at login.

 

(Technically you can provision a sideloaded app into the deployment image using MDT, and those load for every user, but you are arbitrarily limited to 24 apps using this method)

 

3. There's no volume purchase?

 

Let's say I train our 5 year-olds how to navigate the Windows Store and install an app, like good little consumers. Do I also have to train them how to put the school's credit card number in too? I can't see any way for a school or business to bulk buy from the Windows Store.

 

OK, so we only got the Apple VPP to do this with the iPad this term, but I thought Windows 8 was supposed to save us from the consumer-focused Apple BS, not emulate the same model (only worse).

 

4. No automatic updates?

 

Is it possible to configure the Windows Store to perform automatic updates?

No. All updates to apps that come from the Windows Store must be initiated by the user.

 

Source: Managing Client Access to the Windows Store

 

You've got to be kidding me.

Edited November 1, 2012 by AngryTechnician

[Steve21]

It's a bit of an older thread now (seeing this was all on beta etc), but this should help explain it a bit better:

 

Deploying Metro style apps to businesses - Windows Store for developers - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

A lot of your questions it answers.

 

Things like volume license is decided by the authors, and they can set it as an option.

 

You can install/update apps via images/commandline etc, but it's not as nice and easy as it should be like with msi etc

 

Steve

[AngryTechnician]

It's a bit of an older thread now (seeing this was all on beta etc), but this should help explain it a bit better:

 

Deploying Metro style apps to businesses - Windows Store for developers - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

A lot of your questions it answers.

Read that earlier. Unless my reading comprehension has utterly failed, it doesn't answer any of my questions beyond what I've already said above. That document is pretty clear that volume licensing is entirely down to the developer, and you can't install any app unless they provide you with the package.

[Steve21]

Read that earlier. Unless my reading comprehension has utterly failed, it doesn't answer any of my questions beyond what I've already said above. That document is pretty clear that volume licensing is entirely down to the developer, and you can't install any app unless they provide you with the package.

 

I guess my point was it's not really the Windows store that will cause the issue.

 

It's down to individual developers how they make their apps. No different to those pieces of software that require 30 dongles to be bought (aka cubase etc), vs site licenses.

 

Steve

[AngryTechnician]

You're right, it''s no different. But it should be, and I expected better from Microsoft. On the iPad it doesn't matter what the publisher decides, if it's in the iTunes store, I can bulk buy it and deploy it.

 

Right now we are all looking at a future where teachers want to know why the dozen free apps they want for their class aren't automatically available on every computer. They will want to know why they are having to waste their time guiding children through installing them. They are going to be annoyed about it. And, for once, they are going to be perfectly justified.

Edited November 1, 2012 by AngryTechnician

[Theblacksheep]

Lot of these are addressed with SCCM 2012 SP1 (early 2013) ... but outside of that it looks a PITA

[SYNACK]

Lot of these are addressed with SCCM 2012 SP1 (early 2013) ... but outside of that it looks a PITA

 

And a PITA if you don't have the licencing and a spare Cray XE6M to run it on.

[gshaw]

It's a bit of an older thread now (seeing this was all on beta etc), but this should help explain it a bit better:

 

Deploying Metro style apps to businesses - Windows Store for developers - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

A lot of your questions it answers.

 

Things like volume license is decided by the authors, and they can set it as an option.

 

You can install/update apps via images/commandline etc, but it's not as nice and easy as it should be like with msi etc

 

Steve

 

So reading that page you can't deploy an app to a machine for all users at all and it's either installed at image time or has to be per user? Seriously?

[AngryTechnician]

Lot of these are addressed with SCCM 2012 SP1 (early 2013) ... but outside of that it looks a PITA

 

Could you elaborate on which of these issues it addresses?

 

And a PITA if you don't have the licencing and a spare Cray XE6M to run it on.

 

Yah... that too. Always hated how bloated SCCM is, especially for smaller schools like mine, and if it turns out to be the only option I'm going to hate it more.

[localzuk]

Microsoft have said the same thing all along - to manage Windows RT devices, you need InTune or SCCM 2012 SP1. Microsoft: This is how Windows RT, Windows Phone 8 devices will be managed | ZDNet

 

But yes, I think most of the things you've listed are problems. But again, RT devices have never been aimed at business - they're an iPad replacement. The Windows 8 Pro tablets coming soon are the ones for business.

[SYNACK]

Microsoft have said the same thing all along - to manage Windows RT devices, you need InTune or SCCM 2012 SP1. Microsoft: This is how Windows RT, Windows Phone 8 devices will be managed | ZDNet

 

But yes, I think most of the things you've listed are problems. But again, RT devices have never been aimed at business - they're an iPad replacement. The Windows 8 Pro tablets coming soon are the ones for business.

 

Even with the x86 tablets the same issues apply to Metro and the lack of management of some feature, everything has got to be personal but how does that work in an environment that can benefit from having stuff preconfigured, like a classroom or an exam taking account.

[Theblacksheep]

Reading into this a bit more (I dont have sp1 beta) with sccm2021sp1 you can add a windows store app deployment but the unfinished documentation still says this a link to the store or appx, nothing in between.

 

If apps arent released outside of the store it more than a PITA, at best we can open the store, provide links and whitelist apps with app locker. Terrible from MS.

[RabbieBurns]

So... iof i want to create an image and install a bunch of windows 8 apps that are available to all the users who log in... is this possible just now?

 

looking at the link above from steve21 it talks about sideloading, side loading requiring a special license key, using DISM to install apps.. blah blah bleurgh..

 

I jsut want to install a bunch of apps straight from the app store and them have them available for all subsequent users.

 

Possible or not?

 

Also what happens about the microsoft account I use to install the apps. Ive used my own one to do it and now all my contacts and mail is flying up on the start screen.

[mattx]

When it comes to anything new OS related now [ or having to learn etc ] I'm just reactive now instead of being proactive - not enough hours in the day.....

[AngryTechnician]

I jsut want to install a bunch of apps straight from the app store and them have them available for all subsequent users.

 

Possible or not?

No, you can't preload apps direct from the store. The only way to make them available to all users at present is through the DISM/login script process. You are limited to 24 apps using this method, and you have to get hold of the .appx package somehow.

[localzuk]

So... iof i want to create an image and install a bunch of windows 8 apps that are available to all the users who log in... is this possible just now?

 

looking at the link above from steve21 it talks about sideloading, side loading requiring a special license key, using DISM to install apps.. blah blah bleurgh..

 

I jsut want to install a bunch of apps straight from the app store and them have them available for all subsequent users.

 

Possible or not?

 

Also what happens about the microsoft account I use to install the apps. Ive used my own one to do it and now all my contacts and mail is flying up on the start screen.

 

You've made a very good point that had slipped my mind - the Microsoft account issue! That's a bit of a large issue for us!

[Roberto]

Microsoft have said the same thing all along - to manage Windows RT devices, you need InTune or SCCM 2012 SP1. Microsoft: This is how Windows RT, Windows Phone 8 devices will be managed | ZDNet

 

But yes, I think most of the things you've listed are problems. But again, RT devices have never been aimed at business - they're an iPad replacement.

 

Given how iPads are seeing substantial take-up in businesses, that attitude may well come back to bite Microsoft, and those of us who have to support their bad decisions, in the ass. Still at least they've got rid of the idiot in charge of this debacle so maybe they'll sort something out...

Edited November 14, 2012 by Roberto

[caffrey]

In fairness, pushing out apps to ipads still requires user intervention in my experience, the end user gets a popup asking if they want to install it or not (unless i'm doing something wrong).

[adhutton]

We went to the Microsoft Windows 8 Tech day in Leeds yesterday and whilst I was wanting to be impressed, I wasn't!

 

Microsoft seem to have added way too much complexity to Win 8 for Admins and, potentially, for users!

 

If this is their attempt to compete with Apple/iPads etc. then, in my opinion, it may fail!

 

Andrew

[Pottsey]

I am a bit confused about the thread title as I was told as of an update months back Ipads are very manageable.

[AngryTechnician]

I am a bit confused about the thread title as I was told as of an update months back Ipads are very manageable.

 

"Very manageable" is a stretch, but the iOS app store is more manageable than this. It's still a bit of a pain to install apps en-masse though, as when you deploy apps using a management tool you have to confirm the install manually on the device - it doesn't install silently.

 

There are also plenty of other iOS settings you can't remote manage, which is where Windows as a whole has the advantage, but the iOS app store definitely has the upper hand over Windows 8.

[sted]

We went to the Microsoft Windows 8 Tech day in Leeds yesterday and whilst I was wanting to be impressed, I wasn't!

 

Microsoft seem to have added way too much complexity to Win 8 for Admins and, potentially, for users!

 

If this is their attempt to compete with Apple/iPads etc. then, in my opinion, it may fail!

 

Andrew

 

ditto as i said to the ms people there its aimed at home users and the answer to my first question was telling "How do you create a standard start screen" answer "you cant" not enterprise friendly then

 

also even if you do download fruit ninja (for the sake of argument) you can only install it on 5 pcs EVER anyway before you license runs out

 

i suspect managing marketplace/not metro apps will get better over time as will managing the start screen (possibly i already have ideas in that direction) but apart from touchscreen pcs i see no real reason to upgrade

[localzuk]

"Very manageable" is a stretch, but the iOS app store is more manageable than this. It's still a bit of a pain to install apps en-masse though, as when you deploy apps using a management tool you have to confirm the install manually on the device - it doesn't install silently.

 

There are also plenty of other iOS settings you can't remote manage, which is where Windows as a whole has the advantage, but the iOS app store definitely has the upper hand over Windows 8.

 

The way we 'bulk' distribute apps, is to install on one, and dock it in our 16 bay dock, which is hooked up to an always on PC with iTunes open. They all seem to get the apps.

[RabbieBurns]

No, you can't preload apps direct from the store. The only way to make them available to all users at present is through the DISM/login script process. You are limited to 24 apps using this method, and you have to get hold of the .appx package somehow.

 

Any idea where these .appx are available from?

 

Im wanting to use our Dell Slates with the Kindle app, wikipedia, One Note, etc etc so as to use these to their full potential and not have folk dropping to the desktop all the time.

 

Also, what about needing a sideloading serial number is that still the case even with Enterprise edition?

[sted]

Any idea where these .appx are available from?

 

Im wanting to use our Dell Slates with the Kindle app, wikipedia, One Note, etc etc so as to use these to their full potential and not have folk dropping to the desktop all the time.

 

Also, what about needing a sideloading serial number is that still the case even with Enterprise edition?

 

the appx you would need to contact the app maker (so in this case amazon) from what was said yesterday. You need sccm2012(sp whatever it is) to manage apps properly (currently in beta) or use powershell scripts to install them and im still not clear if thats per user or per pc.

 

Ms's thinking appears to be 1pc=1 user who can be trusted with admin rights and if you want "pool computers" use vdi/rdp