Valentine Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 That's fine when 2 people both need it. But if it's class specific, BoE stuff and only one of then can actually use it... [bob is a Feral Druid, Tim is a Rogue] That's why I liked need before greed. If I'm the only Rogue/DK in the raid, how the bejesus is it fair that Warrior tanks keep stealing equipment I'm after just so they can sell it. I've also had one try to sell it to me afterwards. "Oh, this thing I can't use and just got for free? 100k gold." If anyone in a half decent raid group is caught selling BoE items they got with DKP i would think they would very quickly not have a raid group anymore.
DMcGuigan Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 That's fine when 2 people both need it. But if it's class specific, BoE stuff and only one of then can actually use it... [bob is a Feral Druid, Tim is a Rogue] That's why I liked need before greed. If I'm the only Rogue/DK in the raid, how the bejesus is it fair that Warrior tanks keep stealing equipment I'm after just so they can sell it. I've also had one try to sell it to me afterwards. "Oh, this thing I can't use and just got for free? 100k gold." I've also had people assigning drops based on who they like more. The in-build roll mechanic stops things like that. [RNG doesn't care if the guild leader is your friend.] Heh, corrupt loot council. Seen that quite a few times, not the most fun thing to be on the losing end of. As for Valentine's comment, I totally agree, a lot of issues would be eliminated in any half-decent raid guild now, PUGs, not so much, but most decent raid leaders wouldn't put up for any of that ninja disease that goes around.
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If anyone in a half decent raid group is caught selling BoE items they got with DKP i would think they would very quickly not have a raid group anymore. Good to know. Heh, corrupt loot council. Seen that quite a few times, not the most fun thing to be on the losing end of. Indeed. Not fun at all. Also, I should make it known, any comments I'm making are based on when I played over a year ago. I have no idea what's changed. [i even had to get Geoff to help me out with my DK...]
Geoff Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 At least now you know why my guilds rules are the way they are
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) At least now you know why my guilds rules are the way they are Not really. It's all opinion based. "Effort Points (EP) quantify the effort each member put towards the goals. " How does anyone, apart from me, know how much effort I've put in? Plus, and I've just seen this, mandatory add-ons? How about no? I'm not installing things because some random guy told me to. Especially as I've had add-ons that made it a nightmare to tell what's going on. And so what if I haven't got voice-chat? Hold back and type it out. That way, you know it's not getting cut up by lag. [AC online... So much lag.] Emergency potions = 2x AH price? No. Generally, I'll drop things I don't need but are useful in there. I gave it for free, don't even think about trying to make money off of it. Le EDIT: I'm not trying to start an argument... I just don't agree with a lot of these requirements. They scream of people taking a game way to seriously. Edited October 2, 2012 by X-13
Valentine Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Nothing in EPGP is opinion based. EP is all quantitative and will be given for specific things like being on time for raids, spending time raiding and possibly things like providing the raid with extra materials such as flasks/potions etc. Raiders really should just be very happy a good DKP system is being used, trust me when i say it is a hell of a lot of work for the raid leaders to try and make looting fair for all. The other things are standard raid requirements too. If you want things more casual try the LFRaid system which is actually very good now and has automatic distribution of loot so there can be no arguments
Geoff Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 All of these are explained on the guild forums, I'm not going to paste those posts here as they run to multiple pages in total. 1. EP point awards are quantified. The are awarded for obvious easily identifiable things like killing bosses, turning up 15min early, staying for the whole raid, etc. 2. The only addons we require on the RT are some kind of boss mod and the epgp loot addon. 3. We require you to be able to listen to voice chat, not speak (unless you are in a role in the raid that requires it, such as main tank). Many of our guildies don't have English as their first language so they can speak/listen a lot better than type/read. It's also quicker, some people like their raiding to be efficient if they can only devote a small amount of time to it per week. 4. Raid consumable prices are the way they are to stop people sponging of other peoples good nature, it's happened to us in the past and it's caused drama. We tried the carrot, we're now using a stick.
CAM Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If you go hardcore end game raiding guild you will see this stuff. The relaxed guilds just need/greed and let anyone they trust who is raiding in the bank but they take a fair bit of time getting through the content and getting organised. I usually see a threat meter and a boss warnings mod as minimum in a lot of raid groups at all levels too. It's more to help keep things organised if everyone is playing with the same bat.
Valentine Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Threat meters are fairly pointless now as well. Due to the threat changes a while ago if a tank so much as breathes near a mob he will have so much threat a DPS will never catch up. I actually hate this change in general, there were so many bosses especially in vanilla content that required careful threat management, was fun.
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I usually see a threat meter and a boss warnings mod as minimum in a lot of raid groups at all levels too. It's more to help keep things organised if everyone is playing with the same bat. Tbh, I haven't played in a long time. And my last guild was super casual to the point of incompetence. I've asked Geoff if I can join a raid/dungeon to see it in action. [i should have mentioned I'd grab addons and stuff if need be.] But this is getting wildly offtopic. This was supposed to be about kung-fu pandas and what not.
Geoff Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Threat meters are fairly pointless now as well. Due to the threat changes a while ago if a tank so much as breathes near a mob he will have so much threat a DPS will never catch up. I actually hate this change in general, there were so many bosses especially in vanilla content that required careful threat management, was fun. I'm the main tank for my guild progression raid team. I play as a DK. It takes me 3 GCDs (3 seconds) to get any appreciable threat on a raid boss. Many mages have found this out the hard way.
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 It takes me 3 GCDs (3 seconds) to get any appreciable threat on a raid boss. Many mages have found this out the hard way. Sounds like a communication issue. "I'm going in. Stand back, count to 3 and then join. GEEEEEEEOOOOOFF [insert lastname here]"
CAM Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I'm the main tank for my guild progression raid team. I play as a DK. It takes me 3 GCDs (3 seconds) to get any appreciable threat on a raid boss. Many mages have found this out the hard way. But we mages know it takes 3 seconds for the mob to run up to us. Plenty of time for the tank to find his Taunt button. Or cast Ice Block
Geoff Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I generally don't taunt in those situations to teach the silly dps a lesson.
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 But we mages know it takes 3 seconds for the mob to run up to us. Plenty of time for the tank to find his Taunt button. Or cast Ice Block You just need a Frost DK on DPS. [Like me!] I grabbed Chilblains.
X-13 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 raid bosses are immune to CC. BLARGH! I don't know what I'm doing.
Valentine Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I'm the main tank for my guild progression raid team. I play as a DK. It takes me 3 GCDs (3 seconds) to get any appreciable threat on a raid boss. Many mages have found this out the hard way. With 99% of raid bosses now being tauntable there really isn't any excuse for tanks losing aggro at any point. 3 seconds of no DPS in a boss fight can be the difference of a kill and not a kill, there is no reason to hold back. Tanks should be aware all DPS should start popping cooldowns 0.1s after a boss is pulled and deal with it.
X-13 Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 With 99% of raid bosses now being tauntable there really isn't any excuse for tanks losing aggro at any point. Wait! Something just occured to me... And this may not even be possible. But, could 2 tanks stand either side of the boss [far enough away that it has to walk over to them] and just taunt it in a pattern so it's constantly switching between them and actually not doing anything? Beacuse that would be fun to watch.
Geoff Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 There are raid bosses that depend on a similar mechanic. Usually a tank gets a stacking debuff that will kill the tank if it gets to too high a stack level. Thus an offtank needs to taunt it off the main tank until the stacks drop. If you try and keep a mob constantly running between tanks like that though it will evade and reset or ranged dps aggro will overtake the tank threat (because the tanks arn't hitting it). The only other similar situation is when you have someone kite, which doesn't really come up much anymore. There were some rare spider pets for hunters to kite in the molten front in the firelands patch and the BWD raid in the cata release had some lava worms that needed kiting on the Magmaw fight, but other than that I'm struggling to think of anything else.
Valentine Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Wait! Something just occured to me... And this may not even be possible. But, could 2 tanks stand either side of the boss [far enough away that it has to walk over to them] and just taunt it in a pattern so it's constantly switching between them and actually not doing anything? Beacuse that would be fun to watch. Possible but not for very long - Diminishing Returns. They think of everything don't they! A lot of raid bosses do though require 2 or sometimes 3 tanks in order to distribute damage between them. They will taunt off each other when damage or debuffs get too high on the other.
Geoff Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Taunt isn't subject to diminishing returns it is however on a CD (8s for standard taunts). So I think that's where it falls down.
Valentine Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) I will admit my knowledge of taunt mechanics is a little out of date but I am pretty sure on most bosses where it would be advantageous to taunt spam there are DR still, Hagara for instance. But anyway back to Pandaria... Hit 90 on my monk yesterday and dear god there are a lot of dailies, the amount of blue exclamation marks scares me a little. Edited October 3, 2012 by Valentine
ZeroHour Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I have resisted so far in buying Mists and reactivating but reading this thread makes me want to get back in So far in WoW I have never rolled alliance yet though but your guild sounds good @Geoff
X-13 Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I have resisted so far in buying Mists and reactivating but reading this thread makes me want to get back in So far in WoW I have never rolled alliance yet though but your guild sounds good @Geoff One of us. One of us. One of us.
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