[sims] Emerge Alternative

[zag]

Surely a website is better so it can be used on any device?

 

Not really..... Using simplified mobile site versions on devices is a horrible "old school" way of doing things. Even with the quickest SSD webserver you are still looking at huge lag. Not to mention the ease of use of logging in and using the device offline.

 

Once you start swiping, tapping and using all the extra instant features of the app you will understand. Staff have commented on how natural and easy it is to use.

 

Have a test out with the Emerge App on an iphone and you will see what I mean, its amazing compared to web solutions. It works on Android as well now.

[Bromcom_John]

Zag, have you even tried WebFolder mobile or WebFolder SD?

 

I've tried the Emerge App alongsde our "old" web technology.. and at the time saw no appreciable difference.

The iPad version, which IIRC is the one that "would" be used here, is the full featured product that is used for the desktop. A few tweaks were needed for removal of right click functions etc. but othersie its the same product.

Please don't consign Web development to the annals of history.. Don't forget Windows 8 and HTML 5 are all about Web Development as "apps"...

 

But, don't want to muddy FN's thread with arguments about the efficacy of various technology models

 

ps. Double post above I think...

[PhilNeal]

We have both so I feel free to comment. Apps are what have driven the iPad & Android devices to become super successful. Apps win everytime over browsers.

[vikpaw]

We have both so I feel free to comment. Apps are what have driven the iPad & Android devices to become super successful. Apps win everytime over browsers.

 

Appsolutely

[zag]

I had a look at all the main web server products from bromcom, tasc, SLG and a few others while we were looking at the options for taking registers on mobile devices.

 

We went with Groupcall because they seemed to be the only one investing in iPad Apps (which is what we use in our school). And specifically an app that concentrated on what teachers wanted (Registers, pupil info and timetables).

 

I just don't understand the reason companies are not writing mobile apps. Anyone can write an ipad app these days with the correct backend API. Having users able to update an app on the Itunes store themselves is so nice from our point of view as systems administrators. Let alone all the other advantages listed above. 50% of our teachers also have an iphone which is an amazing starting base

 

Basically our choice was made because we wanted an app, and we were prepared to pay a premium for that.

 

Saying all that, I can't wait to see what HTML5 will bring in terms of converging the two.

[Bromcom_John]

We have both so I feel free to comment. Apps are what have driven the iPad & Android devices to become super successful. Apps win everytime over browsers.

 

Thems fightin' words Phil!!

[Bromcom_John]

Saying all that, I can't wait to see what HTML5 will bring in terms of converging the two.

 

As much as I "personally" dislike what is occurring with Windows 8, I have to admit that this is indeed a very exciting prospect.

[GREED]

Thems fightin' words Phil!!

 

I must say that having both capabilities (that is FULL MIS, not just portals) available in the cloud, and the use of dedicated apps, is a really good balance of functionality against availability of information.

[jonnykewell1]

We use the Emerge app internally it seems to work fine but I can not get it to run through our LEA's proxy. They have opened up a connection to watchdog.servicebus.windows.net but it still seems to get blocked. Any body else had issues with this? Also I don't believe you need separate credentials? Our users just use their normal user name and password. I find its easier to use splashtop on the ipads remote into the computer and use sims that way, plus it's much cheaper. lol

[knightrider]

I'm in Bradford and have no problems with running Emerge externally. Our staff love it.

PM me if you want to chat more about this.

[Searle]

We have been using Groupcall’s Emerge since January 2011. There have been quite a few support issues in that time and it reached a point in March 2012 when we were forced to review another product, Bromcom's WebFolder. The school wanted to be able to write back information to SIMS which Emerge simply couldn't do. Groupcall confirmed the feature would be available ifor Emerge in October 2011, but it wasn't. Groupcall confirmed the feature would be available 7 May 2012, but it wasn't. They finally released it Friday 13 July 2012 which gave is one week to evaluate it. However, it meant an update to the database so we delayed. The school finally decided to switch to WebFolder for September 2012.

 

On the day we notified Groupcall of our intent to terminate our contract the option to evaluate the revised product containing the feature we had asked for since September 2011 was denied us. We still had 43 days remaining on our contract.

 

There was no excuse as schools were closing for the summer term. I thought this final action was pretty pettie especially as we had experienced so many difficulties between the big launch in September 2011 and March 2012.

 

We hadn’t ruled out using Groupcall in the future until this particular action.

 

Julian Griffiths-Searle

ICT Systems Manager

Battersea Park School

[Theblacksheep]

Not really..... Using simplified mobile site versions on devices is a horrible "old school" way of doing things. Even with the quickest SSD webserver you are still looking at huge lag. Not to mention the ease of use of logging in and using the device offline.

 

Everything is going web based, from online videos to content that previously required individual apps, the FT and linkedin being great examples. They'll be whole application streamed via the web this year using new software delivery technology. Modern html can take advantage of local storage too, so theres no need to lock in to one device, hardware provider or walled garden.

[PaulHughes]

The new ParentMail APP will be in the iTunes store in the next day or two but despite the money and time we've invested I can say we won't be building another one.

 

IMHO the APP is dead or will be very soon (the fact it drove 'mobile' is irrelevant or we'd all still be using steam trains!). As has been said by others in this thread HTML5 in combination with faster processors, better cloud technology and constantly improving connectivity will be the end of all but the most specialist APPS.

 

From a commercial perspective, why would a company choose to support a website, and android app, a windows app, an apple app etc when a single html5 site would do it all???

 

Will HTML5 Spell The End For Apps? | Business Computing World

[zag]

From a commercial perspective, why would a company choose to support a website, and android app, a windows app, an apple app etc when a single html5 site would do it all???

 

2 simple reason for us:

 

- Clients can upgrade themselves. The Apple store upgrade process is so easy. No messing with web servers ect.

- Speed, Speed and Speed

 

HTML5 will certainly converge and save time for developers but I still prefer apps myself.

 

I just checked out the parentmail app, looks really good. Its a shame we are stuck with Tucasi here, they don't seem to have done anything like that

[matt40k]

Depends really on what camp your in. Apple has done a brillant job with the app store, however Microsoft is giving IE10 hardware acceleration so you'll get the speed from HTML5 along with offline store (doesn't it sound like Google Gears?). Having said that, Microsoft has it's own Apps store. Personally Apps are old hat, it's just the fact Apple is making shed loads of cash that they're not letting it die.

[PhilNeal]

So if apps are old hat how come there are apps for Twitter, Facebook,Weather, iPlayer - you name it. It's because the user experience is superior everytime. That's why there is a massive market for apps.

[zag]

Yeh a great example of this is the Financial Times HTML5 "app".

 

FT.com - The FT web app

 

They decided not to pay apple and program it all in HTML5, its actually really good once you get it installed and loaded but getting it set-up is a nightmare. You have to go to a specific URL, then link the URL to the home screen manually. It was about a page of instructions just to get it installed and has an issue with how long it takes to load initially, and continually having to enter your username and password.

Edited September 10, 2012 by zag

[matt40k]

Suffolk Council website (www.suffolkcc.gov.uk) is HTML5, ok maybe not a great example, but it's not terrible. After all, why do you need an app to pay your council tax? It's a resposive design so it adjusts for your screen resolution.

@PhilNeal how many calculator apps are there? Why? Because people make an app for everything, it's a buzz word and hipsters like buzz words. Q. What's the hipsters device of choice? A. Anything with an official Apple logo on it. Just because they is an app it doesn't mean it's the best. Good example, Rackspace have created an app for it's Cloud services? Why? Because apps are cool and they're a cool company selling a cool product. It isn't the best and it isn't that great. You can't do half the things you want to do on it.

 

Microsoft have the right idea, why create an app when a shortcut to the website will do. Prime example, battlefield3 server stats!! Why is there an app, cause it's a buzz word!!!

 

Creating an app for SIMS .net is a good idea. Some teachers are hipsters and they shouldn't been given a wall of no when it comes to being proactive just because apps are old skool and your uber MIS ain't HTML5. Creating an App for Bromcom would be stupid. Capita redoing the entire of SIMS suite with a HTML5 frontend, well I don't know, I don't think anyone really knows - if Capita did know, it'll have a HTML5 frontend as standard.

 

Having said all that, isn't HTML5 still in draft - ie the goal posts are still moving??

 

EDIT: Yes, HTML5 is still draft - http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/single-page.html

Edited September 10, 2012 by matt40k

[Theblacksheep]

So if apps are old hat how come there are apps for Twitter, Facebook,Weather, iPlayer - you name it. It's because the user experience is superior everytime. That's why there is a massive market for apps.

 

There's a massive market for apps because there's a demand and the fact many of these devices cannot handle websites as well as a PC. Thats why theres a massive market for apps, along with a new revenue stream.

 

Whether they are superior or not is a matter of opinion. iplayer limits what can be seen and viewed, far inferior to the actual iplayer website. Many apps on older systems don't get updated or force the user to update their entire device. As devices get more powerful, they'll be less need for specific apps and less of a push for developers to make propitiatory the same website for multiple devices. HTML will win.

[matt40k]

So if apps are old hat how come there are apps for Twitter, Facebook,Weather, iPlayer - you name it. It's because the user experience is superior everytime. That's why there is a massive market for apps.

 

Admittly I have the twitter app etc installed on my phone, but I still need the website to do certain tasks - I think the only reason the apps is the authentication aspect.

Edited September 10, 2012 by matt40k

[SYNACK]

Admittly I have the twitter app etc installed on my phone, but I still need the website to do certain tasks - I think the only reason I have it is the authentication aspect.

 

I have a stack of Apps on my Windows Phone, there are several reasons:

Optimised for screen

Storage of credentials

Optimised for data transfer - only the content - not the layout and the code every single time

Optimised for CPU, this will change as above as things become more powerful but the inefficiency of HTML does get to me, its like taking a Eurofighter to the local dairy. Sure its really quick to develop and deploy but it sucks down power and cpu time needlessly.

 

EDIT: Oh and it can count against you, favouring one platform. It counts against a product for me if it only supports Apple, less so if it Supports Apple and Android but unless it also supports WP I am less likely to get involved with a product that has gone to the effort for others but left out the one I use.

Edited September 10, 2012 by SYNACK

[vikpaw]

So if apps are old hat how come there are apps for Twitter, Facebook,Weather, iPlayer - you name it. It's because the user experience is superior everytime. That's why there is a massive market for apps.

 

Is that your way of letting slip the development plan for SIMS .Net ...?

[zag]

The iplayer example is a very good one.

 

If I had the choice of using the website or the dedicated iPad app, I would choose the App every single time. Its so easy to use compared to having to log in each time and browse to the page. It also allows download shows now which is very cool!

[matt40k]

No he's worried about his partners being publically slated. Especially one that makes them money at both ends (charge a license cost then they get a reseller money)

[Theblacksheep]

No he's worried about his partners being publically slated. Especially one that makes them money at both ends (charge a license cost then they get a reseller money)

 

....and there we have it.

 

Not about functionality, ease of use, open accessibility for other systems or using technical means of getting rid of clunky old applications like SIMS and FMS, but money.

 

Ironically if more money was spent on SIM/FMS application development itself to make it more open our entire trust wouldn't be looking at alternatives.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Theblacksheep