Your thoughts on repairing or replacing wireless part of network

[confuseduser]

We have a wireless net work based around 15 or so WiFi points and a HP Procurve controller. The controller is faulty, and there is no wireless available at the moment. We have been advised that the HP network points need to be run by either this repaired (but don't know the cost or time delay) HP controller, or replaced by another (later model) HP controller.

 

A new replacement is expensive.

 

We have also been advised that we could replace the HP system with an alternative set-up, minus any wireless controller. Software driven, but it would also involve replacing the HP WiFi points with alternative items, as the HP devices would not be compatible with this new set-up.

 

Cost wise, if we only had 10 WiFi points or so it would be cheaper to ditch the HP system, but with having 15 points to replace the cost advantage tilts towards replacing the HP controller.

 

My question is about the longer view and serviceability of having a wireless system that is dependant on one item that is critical to the entire set-up working.

 

What are the strengths and weaknesses of both systems?

 

We also have a wired network (which is working OK), but the wireless network will become more critical in the next 12 months or so as we move over to a laptop/tablet based environment.

Thanks

[Michael]

In my experience using a wireless controller for 15 wireless access points is a waste of time and very costly as you pointed out. If I had 100's of wireless access points and wireless controller(s) all joined together would make a lot of sense.

 

You could use the opportunity to upgrade your wireless access points to 'N' from 'G' so it future proofs your wireless network. Most newer wireless devices do support 'N' so it's well worth doing. 'N' gives you up to 300Mbps (theoretical), and 'G' up to 54Mbps.

 

A lot of HP networking kit does come with a lifetime warranty like this HP controller here so it may well be worth making a call to HP and finding out.

 

If you're not covered a decent HP PoE switch J9087A or J9146A and HP wireless 'N' access points are the way to go for a small wireless network like yours.

[plexer]

What is the part number of the controller and the points?

 

Ben

[confuseduser]

What is the part number of the controller and the points?

 

Ben

 

Hello...

 

The HP wireless access controller is:

Procurve MSM730

 

On the rear we have these numbers:

MSC 5200 ACCESS CONTROLLER

W069-0019

70-52-1000-06

 

Not at school at the moment..so I cannot examine any numbers on the back of the access point.

 

Thanks

[Michael]

Here's a quote I found online:

 

The MSM700 Controller Series reduces the time and complexity of managing a wireless network. The solutions control hundreds of APs from a single management interface and help ensure that a consistent set of services is delivered throughout the wireless network. Pushing authentication, encryption, QoS enforcement, and access policies to the access points delivers the intelligence to the edge of your mobile network.

 

Exactly I said, ideal for hundreds not 15 access points. The MSM730 is around £3K new.

[pritchardavid]

You should be able to get the repaired/replaced for free. HP Procurve products have lifetime warranty! When we had our wireless routers repaired they sent us new ones first then we sent the old ones back after. Edited March 6, 2012 by pritchardavid

[plexer]

You should be able to get the repaired/replaced for free. HP Procurve products have lifetime warranty! When we had our wireless routers repaired they sent us new ones first then we sent the old ones back after.

 

Not always don't just assume that access points especially.

 

Ben

[plexer]

That controller has a 1 year warranty.

 

You can use the support lookup tool:

 

HP Networking support and look-up tool

 

Ben

[confuseduser]

You should be able to get the repaired/replaced for free. HP Procurve products have lifetime warranty! When we had our wireless routers repaired they sent us new ones first then we sent the old ones back after.

 

If only... HP have told us it is out of warranty (12 months) and we have had it 2 years and 7 months.

[confuseduser]

Here's a quote I found online:

 

 

 

Exactly I said, ideal for hundreds not 15 access points. The MSM730 is around £3K new.

 

Yes that was roughly the original price.....the replacement recommendation is coming in at nearer 5k OUCH!

[Michael]

I would seriously scrap the controller idea and buy a PoE switch with new wireless 'N' access points. You'll probably save around £2K to 2.5K.

[m25man]

You can replace the lot with something that works for far less than you think.

[alttab]

Here's a quote I found online:

 

 

 

Exactly I said, ideal for hundreds not 15 access points. The MSM730 is around £3K new.

 

 

I think it's gone end of life.

 

Hence the recommended replacement would probably be an msm760 which with premium license required

For redundancy possibly explains the increased price.

 

I don't know whether the entry level Msm720 would be an option for the ap's being mentioned, or whether with add unite redundancy the price would still come to a few k, but the route to go down depends on how important it is to have more than one controller in this environment. Replacing with something that just 'works' with these ap's is probably not as expensive as the numbers being mentioned, the hp msm stuff is not by any stretch the most expensive kit out there

Edited March 9, 2012 by alttab

[Michael]

No it's not the most expensive kit, but a wireless controller for 15 access points just isn't worth it at all.

 

I would just start from new, install a decent PoE switch and replace the access points. It would take one afternoon to program 15 access points and would end up being much more cost effective with the same results.

[confuseduser]

You can replace the lot with something that works for far less than you think.

 

Yes its only when you start looking at things in depth than it becomes apparent there are alternatives, alternatives in price and technology.

 

One supplier we have contacted is offering to replace the set-up we have with new WiFi access points, controlled by software at a sum somewhat cheaper than this one HP wireless controller.

 

I have also come across UniFi WiFi systems which seems quite attractive both in technology and price. Has anybody had any experience of UniFi set-up in a school environment? Suppliers/installers/contacts ? ?

 

Thanks for all the feed back so far!

[Achandler]

There are a fair few of us that do.

 

M25man has a few places with it setup, I have it setup in my school as well.

[confuseduser]

There are a fair few of us that do.

 

M25man has a few places with it setup, I have it setup in my school as well.

 

Has it performed to your satisfaction, and delivered what you want from it?

 

What are the Pros and Cons of the set-up?

 

Thanks

[Achandler]

Has it performed to out level fo satisfaction? Yes, it has done everything we have required of it.

 

Pros:

Cost

Ease of setup

Reduced ongoing costs (in theory)

No expensive hardware to pay a warranty on

Easy for self install

 

Cons

Current model needs a PoE adapter to use a standard PoE switch (this should be resolved in pro version)

Only 100meg NICs (Solved in pro version)

Only using 1 frequency (solved in Pro version)

It doesn't do "beam bending" etc (but we don't need it to)

 

 

For a school it does everything that is needed, Guest Wifi, Wifi codes for visiters if wanted etc. I have 36 access points, I can probably upgrade every single one to a Pro one, then still afford to replace them all again for the same cost of any other manufacturers Wifi. There are cases of people using 1000s of clients on Unifi with no problems.

[MrWu]

Agreed on UniFi, definitely give it a try, the controller software is easy to install and so far reception is good with the 3 loaned UniFi APs. During Easter we will be putting up a few UniFis, Netgear and maybe Extricom kits to have a month test on each system.

Also waiting to try th Pro version i the UniFi, and if priced competitively, would be very compeling.

 

Money saved could give me more cash to further overhaul my cabling, because even if i put a 80k Meru in there right now, it will still run like pants.

[MrWu]

Ps with the Guest WiFi function, could this be assigned to Iphone/iPad users so they could just surf the web, with no access to the msin network?

[Achandler]

If you have a an SSID set as a Guest one then then clients are "isolated" they cannot ping each other etc. Access to your network could be restricted or not depending on your setup, personally it is blocked here but although the "Guest" fucntion on Unifi shoudl stop it and isolate them, you probably have to bear in midn that a Guest wifi is usally on a seperate VLAN. So the guests will only access what is on that VLAN unless you start bridging it etc.

 

We have access to our VLE and Exchange Server bridged, as it is pointless to go out and in from the Guest wifi to access internal resources. Our Guest wifi also only has 2 ports open, 80 and 443.

[m25man]

Yes its only when you start looking at things in depth than it becomes apparent there are alternatives, alternatives in price and technology.

 

One supplier we have contacted is offering to replace the set-up we have with new WiFi access points, controlled by software at a sum somewhat cheaper than this one HP wireless controller.

 

I have also come across UniFi WiFi systems which seems quite attractive both in technology and price. Has anybody had any experience of UniFi set-up in a school environment? Suppliers/installers/contacts ? ?

 

Thanks for all the feed back so far!

 

Due to the ridiculously low price of this kit (and equally small margins) many suppliers will do their best to steer you away from it with some rather dubious excuses.

 

There are plenty of expensive sophisticated solutions out there doing a splendid job, but we now approach another transition from 11n to 11ac and I for one am eager to see how this evolves.

Many of the higher end vendors are playing down 11ac adoption Ruckus especially but it doesnt seem to stop them and all of the others taking top table seats at all of the recent 11.ac conferences

 

Im working with extremely limited budgets and for one simply cant afford to waste a load of cash on hardware that could be made obsolete in 18 months.

 

Cheap, Fast, Good choose any two is a common saying here on Edugeek and in most cases is absolutely spot on I dont think this product is any different.

There are a good number of reputable suppliers out there and an increasing number of installers (if you really need them) however box shifters will probably not be interested due to the much smaller profit margins available to them.

 

The important thing is that you have been made aware that there are other alternatives out there that work apart from those being force fed to this market sector.

 

I dont want to be accused again of using this forum to promote a specific vendor as it upsets the sponsors..

Your all highly intelligent free spirits, not sheep, you can make your own minds up.