GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 So, I was chatting with some friends Saturday during the United/Pool match, and there were numerous signs from the Liverpool fans showing their support for Luis Suarez. There was unanimous agreement that, as he has been found guilty but a court (or football equivilant) that they are supporting racism. We harked back to when the Liverpool players had their supporting T-shirts in an earlier match, and again the same opinion. What do you think because this is starting to get on my wick... BTW, This is a topic about reactions and support, not racism itself, which we can all clearly say right from the off is detestable and moronic...
glennda Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Yes it happens - no it shouldn't happen. It happens all over the world and IMHO happens a lot against white people as well (although the issue isn't highlighted as much). Everybody has the Opionion that is it just one way - which it most certainly isnt. IMHO it shouldn't happen but always will in one form or another.
Domino Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Ahem... "did you see that ludicrous display last night?" 4
kevbaz Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Issue for us LFC fans in general was he was found guilty on an assumption , they even used the phrase "Mr Evra's version of event is PROBABLY what happend" The same Mr Evra that was found guilty and banned for 6 matches because of false racial alegations (chelsea groundsman) and the same Mr Evra who led the French national squad revolt at the last world cup. There was ZERO evidence and they trusted the word of a known and convicted liar. The panel was manned by two close friends of Fergie.. go figure. hence the outburst of injustice and the backing to the hilt of the player.
JonWPS Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 The scousers in particular love playing the victims, so the reaction on their part was always to be expected. They probably should have been done for the stance they took and some of the veiled accusations they made about the report as well. But in general, football fans are blindly loyal and will follow pretty much anyone in their teams' shirt.
penfold_99 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 This has been a discussion point on a spurs website, some of what has been spouted on some of the liverpool fan forums has been even worse than the original incident and well over the line of freedom of speech going into racial abuse and bigotry. The FA has to be very careful how this plays out as they have laid a bench mark for bans which is good but if Terry get charged/convicted by the police his ban will have to be a lot longer.
PICNIC Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Ahem... "did you see that ludicrous display last night?" Bluffball.co.uk - Your guide to football parlance.
GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Issue for us LFC fans in general was he was found guilty on an assumption , they even used the phrase "Mr Evra's version of event is PROBABLY what happend" The same Mr Evra that was found guilty and banned for 6 matches because of false racial alegations (chelsea groundsman) and the same Mr Evra who led the French national squad revolt at the last world cup. There was ZERO evidence and they trusted the word of a known and convicted liar. The panel was manned by two close friends of Fergie.. go figure. hence the outburst of injustice and the backing to the hilt of the player. As much as I understand you point, I don't think this makes any difference. If he had been found guilty in a court, then in our laws he is guilty. Granted we have not gone this far (yet), but to show support for this is saying your support what he did. Lets be fair, we all saw the reaction at the time of the incident, if something had not been said then it would not have prompted such a reaction. Why pick Suarez if he didn't say anything? He has said something to start this so he is in the wrong. My point is: Look at Joey Barton, he is a moron for his past, no one has backed him "Yer Joey you are right we love you still despite you being a thug". Or Marlon King?
GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Whats football ? I wish I had the same understanding sometimes! 1
mthomas08 Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 The scousers in particular love playing the victims, so the reaction on their part was always to be expected. They probably should have been done for the stance they took and some of the veiled accusations they made about the report as well. But in general, football fans are blindly loyal and will follow pretty much anyone in their teams' shirt. Agreed, although I do think it might have been harsh on the ban of that length, after what has been recently happening it had to occur. After reading what information was actually released (very little too) turned out that Suarez dug him self a hole by claiming he said it once when in fact he didnt. Kenny has been forced to keep quiet but to be honest I think a deal was cut to accept the ban or all the details got published. I think Evra wasn't hurt by what was said but decided to take it as racism and Suarez as mentioned didnt help him self by claiming it was said once. And of course the FA decided let's set an example which frankly had to occur due to recent events. I do agree though Fans supporting racism of any kind is disgusting and Liverpool have lost a lot of respect because of it.
JoeBloggs Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 From what I heard, Suarez admitted saying "something" because in his country it was acceptable. (he admitted because he didn't think it was wrong) Obviously he is in the UK and should obey the UK laws. So he should be punished - no doubt. But I think on this it was down to ignorance rather than racism on Suarez's part. So yeah, Liverpool should support him through it. He'll live and learn! (hopefully)
Millgate Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Sometimes i feel some people hide behind the whole racism thing which really annoys me. Obviously racism is a disgusting thing and anyone caught doing it or saying it (like Terry) should be punished severely. I was walking in Meadowhall the other day and the wife bumped into someone by accident and she was called racist which is an absolute joke! 1
GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Oh I agree, the mere mention of a sniff of a hint of racism is met with a barrage of criticism. Because it is acceptable in his country only digs deeper, that surely says something about Uruguay... My issue still is the way fans and players have supported him, despite all of this. I am sorry to say but if he was found to have dodgy child picture (or something equally wrong), would they all still stick with him?
synaesthesia Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 One of the many reasons I don't follow football. There's no sport in it anymore other than what's played in parks on sundays up and down the country. As soon as someone gets paid proper money to play it they turn it complete planks either on their own doing or via peer pressure. if I want to watch bad acting and casual racism then a night in with Channel 4 will sort me out but football is just diabolical. It needs FDISKing and starting from scratch, making sure the boot record is killed for good measure.
GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 That is a brilliant answer FDISK the whole of FIFA
featured_spectre Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Whats football ? Football is a sport where massively over paid players chase a ball for 90 minutes with the pretence that both sides want to win. Some times it is entertaining, other times it is like watching paint dry. The best form of the sport is watching grass roots clubs (kids clubs and adult clubs) who really want to work together as a team, and do this in their spare time and pay to play (for kits, transport etc) and the best hope of sponsorship they have is a small local business who will chip in to help buy the kits. Also the big level footballers seem to be fantastic actors or have the health regeneration abilities of Wolverine! For example, a player gets tackled and dives to the floor, proceeds to roll around for 5 minutes calling for medical help as if they have broken their legs but then as if by sheer magic when the decision goes against them, they get straight back up! I find the sport a waste of time at the big levels and national pride is misplaced in the teams that are there, as there are undoubtedly better players at the grass roots as they are the players who get tackled badly and still carry on unless the whistle has been blown rather than crying wolf. I personally think people should watch a real sport such as rugby or UFC. Hope that helps @mattx and @GREED 1
mattx Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Football is a sport where massively over paid players chase a ball for 90 minutes with the pretence that both sides want to win. Some times it is entertaining, other times it is like watching paint dry. The best form of the sport is watching grass roots clubs (kids clubs and adult clubs) who really want to work together as a team, and do this in their spare time and pay to play (for kits, transport etc) and the best hope of sponsorship they have is a small local business who will chip in to help buy the kits. Also the big level footballers seem to be fantastic actors or have the health regeneration abilities of Wolverine! For example, a player gets tackled and dives to the floor, proceeds to roll around for 5 minutes calling for medical help as if they have broken their legs but then as if by sheer magic when the decision goes against them, they get straight back up! I find the sport a waste of time at the big levels and national pride is misplaced in the teams that are there, as there are undoubtedly better players at the grass roots as they are the players who get tackled badly and still carry on unless the whistle has been blown rather than crying wolf. I personally think people should watch a real sport such as rugby or UFC. Hope that helps @mattx and @GREED Which is why I'm off to Rome in 2 weeks......
GrumbleDook Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Footballer A and Footballer B have an ongoing spat where insults get thrown about on both sides. One uses personal insults and the other uses language that many others find racially abusive (remembering that racial abuse is a subjective issue and is based on how it made the subject or others feel rather than the intent on behalf of the originator). In law there are mitigating factors and these do seem to have been ignored in this particular case, but they are only mitigating factors, not excuses or a reason why things have happens or could be allowed to happen again in the future. As a fan of Liverpool, Everton and Tranmere, it has been disappointing to read some of the press from back home and talking with friends who cannot see that, in spite of the other things going on with this case, that they should have been educating players such as Suarez, as it appears that this is language he has also used in the training ground in a friendly and descriptive manner. From talking with other friends, who have come from Kenya and Sudan, they talk about different skin tones and hair colours in a descriptive manner too, but it can be taken as racially offensive by others ... even when it is not done so. They have been helped by friends to moderate their language and understand the history about why some folk get offended. For me, a problem with this case is that players where being insulting to one another ... no matter whether the language used was racially abusive or not. The manner that this aspect was addressed was disappointing. The automatic vitriol against the other team is not something that is pleasant in any sport ... and the ideal that players of sports should do what they can to earn the respect of each other, professionally and personally, as well as the respect of the fans ... that seems to be gone from so many sports. In football, I think we should ditch post-match press conferences ... the need of the public for a kiss'n'tell style response from players and managers in the immediate seconds disappoints me. I think we should drop one of the Champions League places and award it to the team with the best disciplinary across all leagues. I think that there should be a ban on the number of players who can approach the ref ... there is a reason why there is a Captain ... it is *his* job to liaise between the team and the ref. Teams should fine players who dive rather than see if they get away with it. There is nothing wrong with football being a physical game ... but it should be tempered with some sense of respect for each other.
GREED Posted January 30, 2012 Author Posted January 30, 2012 Totally agree Tony. Some things you mention are already in place (fair play league, although this is Europa league not cl) and there is the rule about the offending player and captain only approaching the ref. The whole issue of respect amazes me, you look at Rugby and there is total respect for the most part to fans, officials and other teams. And in fact in nearly every other sport...
featured_spectre Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 The expression is football - gentlemans game played by hooligans, rugby - hooligans game played by gentlemen
alttab Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Issue for us LFC fans in general was he was found guilty on an assumption , they even used the phrase "Mr Evra's version of event is PROBABLY what happend" The same Mr Evra that was found guilty and banned for 6 matches because of false racial alegations (chelsea groundsman) and the same Mr Evra who led the French national squad revolt at the last world cup. There was ZERO evidence and they trusted the word of a known and convicted liar. The panel was manned by two close friends of Fergie.. go figure. hence the outburst of injustice and the backing to the hilt of the player. the report was very comprehensive by all accounts, and with anything where it's mostly one person's word against another, it was concluded that evra was by far the more reliable witness. what went on with evra previously is irrelevant. the worst thing about this whole incident is how liverpool [in particular the manager] keep digging themselves a hole. Given liverpool are headed by a group with ample resources and experience in running a big sporting club, i'm amazed dalglish is still allowed in front of a microphone without a club solicitor or PR guy sitting next to him. Evidence this... Kenny Dalglish says nothing wrong with booing Patrice Evra | Mail Online where he describes the unseemly booing of patrice evra as 'banter'. keep digging kenny. contrast with the way ferguson has responded to the incident from the beginning, supporting his player and leaving it up to the player to decide what course of action to take without resorting to knee-jerk reactions over the reliability of an opposing teams' player. Ferguson and dalglish are of a similar generation and i would guess backgrounds, but only one has shown that he's a modern day football manager both in team building and on issues that spill out into the media. Edited January 31, 2012 by alttab
featured_spectre Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Ferguson has nearly 30 years at the same top level club, and from that, a massive wealth of experience on how to deal with multiple issues. Hell he and Wenger (2nd longest serving manager in the premiership) have practically written the book on how to deal with issues. I think sticking with 1 club for such periods of time have given them the insight as to how to deal with press properly without dragging their club down, and how to deal with the players. When you hope from club to club every 3 -5 years, it doesn't help as you need to sort out issues in different ways in different clubs depending on what the directors say.
mthomas08 Posted January 31, 2012 Posted January 31, 2012 Ferguson has nearly 30 years at the same top level club, and from that, a massive wealth of experience on how to deal with multiple issues. Hell he and Wenger (2nd longest serving manager in the premiership) have practically written the book on how to deal with issues. I think sticking with 1 club for such periods of time have given them the insight as to how to deal with press properly without dragging their club down, and how to deal with the players. When you hope from club to club every 3 -5 years, it doesn't help as you need to sort out issues in different ways in different clubs depending on what the directors say. Couldn't agree more, he was careful with the whole Rooney episode (possible leaving, personal life issues, his on pitch antics). Regardless of how people see racism what Liverpool did was coming across as supporting racism.
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