Phoenix E1 versus CMIS, Hebron.Net, ISAMS, SIMS.net

[maplay]

I work in an Independent school and we are currently using Phoenix Gold. We are looking to move to either their new version of Phoenix e1, or totally change to CMIS, Hebron.Net, SIMS.net or ISAMS. I can find no comments posted about Phoenix E1 or ISAMS and very little about Hebron. We will be seeing demonstrations of these MIS systems but would be interested to hear any comments from users of these systems.

[Toby.Belfield]

I am more than happy to take detailed functional questions on any aspect of the SIMS product.

 

We have recently released our new Fees Billing software - which is integrated as part of SIMS .net. Your Bursary might find it useful to have a separate demonstration of this.

 

Do not hesitate to contact me directly - as my responsibilities extend to the Independent Sector (having spent over 10 years in the sector, as a Housemaster, teacher and Head of VI Form.)

 

[email protected]

 

Toby Belfield

Capita

[mcpman]

Hi Maplay,

 

I would have a serious look at Hebron.Net the product is shaping up nicely now. I have used Serco’s Facility CMIS and SIMS.Net. I still have SIMS in use for NOVAT and Exams but all went wrong in February. I logged a call with Capita on 7th Feb and sent data when requested 2 weeks later and guess what! STILL NO FIX.

 

Thank God for Hebron.NET. I know that I have great support at the end of the phone. I have had only one problem with the database during the last 12 months which was fixed in hours. They dialled in took backup of data analysed it and fixed problem.

 

That’s right I had nothing to do now that’s what I call support. http://www.hebron.co.uk

[PhilNeal]

mcpman, if you would like to email me with details of your case I will investigate it for you. [email protected]

[mcpman]

Hi Phil,

As you can see from below the Severity states Entire System is unavailable and was logged on February 6th. In fact I logged this the week before but your system could not handle the error notes I posted into it and so corrupted the case log. This is only a minor issue the fact that we have had no Sims for over a month is disgusting. I will be advising my Finance Manager to seek compensation for this loss of service.

This only strengthens my argument to move away from SIMS as Capita has clearly forgotten its main priorities. Customer Service and its inability to provide it. I have used Sims from the early days when it was Dos and was one of the first schools to move to the .Net platform. I find it amazing that even after 5 years you still cannot offer a quality service when the system fails.

I have removed some details but have included the case reference ID 0702-109104 and a log so other viewers can see the problems with Capita support.

Case Details

C9104etails of Issue 0702-109104

 

 

Site name: Issue type: Customer Case

Contact: Condition: Open

Product: SIMS .net Installation & Upgrade Your ref:

Severity: Entire system unavailable Currently: with the Development Escalation Team

Description: Upgrade Error Solutions Tried Unsuccessfully:

Status: Solution in progress

Notes: Upgrade error Your database has been restored correctly and can be used normally. The error reported was Violation of PRIMARY KEY constraint 'pk_adm_visit_school_representative'. Cannot insert duplicate key in object 'adm_visit_school_representative'. The SQL Batch which caused the error was : -- DO NOT CONVERT ANY DATA IF THE DATABASE IS AN OFFLINE DATABASE ------------------------------------------------------------------ if exists (select 1 from sims.db_version_info where offline = 0) begin -- TJF BEGIN Reg Fees \ Deposits ------------------------------------------ -- sims.adm_application_transaction_type-- ------------------------------------------ if not exists( select 1 from sims.adm_application_transaction_type) begin SET IDENTITY_INSERT sims.adm_application_transaction_type ON insert into sims.adm_application_transaction_type ( lookup_value_id ,code ,description ,external_code ,display_order ,system ,active ) select lookup_value_id ,code ,description ,external_code ,display_order ,system ,active from sims.ra_application_transaction_type SET IDENTITY_INSERT sims.adm_application_transaction_type OFF end

 

Issue History

 

Activity Date: 23/02/2007 11:44:53 Communication Type: E-mail

Activity by: Denise Green

Customer Update

Please note that the attached case is with the Escalation team for cases needing attention. However we currently have a back log of cases which we are working through as quickly as we can.

 

I will be tracking the progress of your case and will contact you with information, as it becomes available.

Please contact me if you have any further queries about this case.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

Denise Green

Escalation Administrative Assistant

01234 832119

 

 

 

Activity Date: 13/02/2007 16:00:14 Communication Type: Phone call

Activity by: Ric Carson

BA Commnet

with helpdesk

 

 

 

Activity Date: 13/02/2007 14:35:19 Communication Type: Contact

Activity by: Eric De Souza

ESCALATION SUMMARY

Error when trying to upgrade sims.net. Client has nothing under visit just in interview.

 

-------------------------------- error -----------------------------------

Upgrade error Your database has been restored correctly and can be used normally.

 

The error reported was Violation of PRIMARY KEY constraint 'pk_adm_visit_school_representative'. Cannot insert duplicate key in object 'adm_visit_school_representative'.

 

The SQL Batch which caused the error was : -- DO NOT CONVERT ANY DATA IF THE DATABASE IS AN OFFLINE DATABASE ------------------------------------------------------------------ if exists (select 1 from sims.db_version_info where offline = 0) begin -- TJF BEGIN Reg Fees \ Deposits ------------------------------------------ -- sims.adm_application_transaction_type-- ------------------------------------------ if not exists( select 1 from sims.adm_application_transaction_type) begin SET IDENTITY_INSERT sims.adm_application_transaction_type ON insert into sims.adm_application_transaction_type ( lookup_value_id ,code ,description ,external_code ,display_order ,system ,active ) select lookup_value_id ,code ,description ,external_code ,display_order ,system ,active from sims.ra_application_transaction_type SET IDENTITY_INSERT sims.adm_application_transaction_type OFF end

 

 

 

Activity Date: 12/02/2007 15:59:17 Communication Type: E-mail

Activity by: Eric De Souza

DATA REQUESTED

Dear Les,

 

Regarding the above case, the symptoms described in your case indicate that we require your latest data to investigate this issue further. At this stage, I can only apologise for the problems but please be assured that once the data comes in, I will endeavour to find out the cause of the problem.

 

 

Please find below instructions on how to upload your database to our ftp site:

 

1) Copy your database files (.mdf and .ldf files or .bak file) from C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL$SIMS\Data or D:\ depending on your server setup.

Put them on a zip file, please use your school name and case number to name the file.

 

2) Go to our ftp site (below) and upload your data. If asked the user name is: incoming and the password is: data.

 

 

 

 

Alternatively please put your data onto a CD and send it to us.

Our address is:

 

FAO: Eric De Souza

Capita Education Services

5 Mercian Close

Watermoor

Cirencester

GL7 1LT

 

 

Please ensure that any data sent to the helpdesk via FTP is also zipped and password protected.

 

 

Due to a recent security incident at a Capita office, can I ask that if you need to send data to us in the post, the envelope is clearly marked with the case reference number and your LA/School name. Any items received and not displaying this information may be delayed in processing or rejected.

 

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this may cause, but I hope you understand our reasons for this action.

 

 

 

Kind Regards,

Eric De Souza

Software Support Analyst

Capita Education Services

Independent Schools Division

Tel: 01285 647500 Fax: 01285 647599

[email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

Activity Date: 12/02/2007 15:55:57 Communication Type: Phone call

Activity by: Eric De Souza

information received

have nothing under visit just interview

 

 

 

Activity Date: 12/02/2007 11:03:25 Communication Type: E-mail

Activity by: Eric De Souza

solution sent

Dear Les,

 

This problem happens when a person is scheduled to attend an R+A meeting more than once with the same role. Could you please check all R+A meetings/visits to ensure that each person is down as being an attendee only once.

 

Please let me know how you get on

 

Kind Regards,

Eric

 

 

 

Activity Date: 06/02/2007 09:45:34 Communication Type: Web support

Activity by: Les Baker

Case logged by customer through WebSupport

System Generated Activity Tuesday, February 06 2007 09:45:33 by Les

[PhilNeal]

Thank you for letting me have the details. I will get this checked out and get back to you.

[PhilNeal]

A solution to this problem should be with you shortly. What I don't understand is why the system was out of commission because this was an upgrade failure and going back to the backup should have got you going again?

 

Anyway resolving this should not have taken so long and I am sorry that you have been inconvenienced.

[mcpman]

Hi,

 

Yes a backup would have restored it back but the error was in the database and the support team did not advise a restore.

 

To continue using a database with errors would surely be unwise as then any data you add may be lost?

 

I have now received a solution and am in the throws of carrying it out.

 

 

Thank You

[WCBS]

Dear Maplay

 

Your post caught my eye this afternoon and I thought I would take the opportunity to introduce you to WCBS and the PASS Management Information System.

 

We would be delighted to be involved in your review process and I have pleasure in providing a link to our company website.

 

http://www.wcbs.co.uk

 

Should you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Regards

 

 

Alistair Steadman

Sales Consultant, WCBS

[Frankie]

I have just joined a school and we are using the old Phoenix system too.

 

Are there any non sales people that can advise on any of the systems I have haerd about, I mean users not marketing people?

 

I woudl only consider a system that is the latest technology and one that will last, its my head on the line ifI get it wrong! I have heard of SIMS.NET but aparently the rumours are that they are not supporting SQL2000 soon and my predesessor said it is expensive to upgrade. Phoenix is web based and not happy with that (personal reasons with control!), I know nothing about CMIS (any info would be great - havent seen it yet) and I dont know much at all about Hebron.NET except that it is a new system.

 

So do any of you have any real strong convictions or stories about any of the systems (that one about Capita support above is very useful).

 

They all seem to offer a similar package.

 

FranK.

[mcpman]

Hi Frankie,

 

 

I have used both SIMS and CMIS you know my view on SIMS support above and CMIS support was not much better. The CMIS did have Eportal for use by the staff to access pupil data but the printing from this web page in the form of lists was bad. This meant you had to use the facility admin software and this was very complicated and confusing for teachers compared with SIMS which does have a nice interface.

 

 

As you can tell I am now working closely with the HEBRON.Net team as one of the partner schools to help them develop HDN for the independent schools market. It is easy to use and works well. We signed up to the Hebron.net product just over a year ago and a lot of progress has been made.

 

 

I am now confident to recommend the product to anyone. Things are going from strength to strength with HDN; we will switch over completely to HDN from this September. I am just waiting for the timetable module due to be launched to partner schools by the end of next month for testing. The Exams module is working well and there are even improvements being written into the next build to speed up entry as a result of our testing.

 

 

We are migrating to the fees module for billing next week. The support has been superb. On the two occasions I needed support Hebron connected in took backups of the database worked out a fix within 2 hours and then dialled back in and fixed our data for us. I am lucky I could carry out this side of things myself but if you have this kind of support then it really takes the pressure off and allows me to get on with the things that really matter supporting the students.

 

 

[Frankie]

Cheers MCPMan, sounds good - maybe I'll investigate this compny further, what is this EPortal software alll abuot I have never heard of iut.

 

Does the hebron package allow any form of web use cos the SMT at the school are asking about working from home for reports. I can see lots of questions about mending their old windows 95 computers that they have at home!

 

Franks.

[Lily]

Post removed due to the fact the original poster did not make clear who she worked for.

 

The issue in hand is being dealt by the company. Irony they allowed to post here as they are forum sponsors. But what not allowed to do is mislead either on purpose or intentionally.

 

Expect an updated response either later tonight or early tomorrow morning.

 

Regards

 

Russell Dyas

Admin

[StArbiter]

Hi Lily

 

and wlecome. If you would like to post your school email address I would be more than happy to send you my thoughts of G2.

[kxv2020]

SIMS.net is progressing very well - I would advise you to use SIMS.net it works well and excellent for classroom staff and the admin team!! Take a serious look at it.

 

In my experience a web interface provided by other providers is often lacking in functionality that a fat client could provide. However there is a web version of SIMS which can be used in conjunction using the SIMS web parts for Sharepoint.

[MkII]

Hi Lily

 

and wlecome. If you would like to post your school email address I would be more than happy to send you my thoughts of G2.

 

Please use the PM function found at the foot of every post

[StArbiter]

Thanks Mark - Lily did just that but was unwilling to give her school details :?:

[NigelRayner]

All,

 

I'm Nigel Rayner, Sales and Marketing Manager for IntegrisG2.

 

On Wednesday one of my team posted an entry on this forum that appeared to be from a school. When challenged by Russell I'm afraid she compounded this mistake by not owning up immediately.

 

This is clearly not acceptable and I'd like to apologise for it right now.

 

It's not our policy to do this, you may note contributions elsewhere on the forum by members of the Integris team correctly identifying exactly who we are. The fact that our newest recruit was not aware of this is my responsibility and this is a lesson learned.

 

To make sure it doesn't happen again we'll be taking Russell Dyas up on his offer to advise us on how to effectively communicate with customers via online communities. In the meantime I can only apologise again and say that our sponsorship of this forum is precisely because it's open, the last thing we want to do is compromise this.

 

If anyone wants to contact me directly my email is [email protected].

 

Nigel

[IT4Schools]

I have a client that has had Hebron.net installed for 18 months and despite Hebron and the client's best Endeavours they are unable to get it work. They are considering going back to the old version of Hebron and regret changing. I would take great care in evaluating this product.

[Psymon]

I think our school is one of the few that are starting to implement iSAMS this year. I only know of 3-4 more that are "going live" with iSAMS this year.

 

Currently, we are going live with Administration staff this week, getting staff on-board by Jan/Feb next year, the iSAMS system is very impressive, when selecting an MIS for this school we looked at quite a few wide-spread MIS systems and iSAMS catered perfectly for private / independant schools.

[DoubleFirstChair]

One of the many schools which use our hebron.NET MIS software extensively and very successfully, has let me know of the negative post made by 'IT4Schools' - see above.

 

As Hebron's Chairman, I am concerned at what 'IT4Schools is saying for two reasons.

 

First, if we have a school which is unhappy, I would want to know which.

 

Second, 'IT4Schools' has no Edugeek Profile, has only made 2 posts, both of which are identical, making it look suspiciously like a 'plant' from a competitor.

 

So please, 'IT4Schools', let us all know who you are, what your position and work is, and the details of the school you mention.

 

Regards,

 

Piers du Pre

Chairman

Hebron UK Ltd

Edited September 28, 2011 by vikpaw
company link

[IndependentSchool]

Having read everyone's feedback, it seems that apart from iSAMS, every system has been disliked by some schools. We are in the process of changing our MIS system and have been looking at all the listed system. For us Phoenix e1, iSAMS and SERCO has stood out. But after reading the comments I am not sure anymore.

 

Anyone able to give feedback on iSAMS?

[dredmunds]

We had used Phoenix Gold for about 10 years and felt it was coming to the end of its useful life and was not being developed at the same rate as other MIS systems. We have recently taken on Schoolbase a MIS developed by Furlong Business Solutions. The overall package is excellent and Furlong have an outstanding back up team of developers and helplines. I would be happy to expand on this should any School, independent or otherwise wish to contact me on [email protected]

[DoubleFirstChair]

Cheers MCPMan, sounds good - maybe I'll investigate this compny further, what is this EPortal software alll abuot I have never heard of iut.

 

Does the hebron package allow any form of web use cos the SMT at the school are asking about working from home for reports. I can see lots of questions about mending their old windows 95 computers that they have at home!

 

Franks.

 

Hi Frankie,

 

Did you make a choice? As I suspect you know, we re-named Hebron to Double First early this year when we started selling into the British Schools in the Middle East....

 

In answer to your question, Engage (the new name for hebron.NET) has fully functioning Teacher and Parent portals. More than happy to ask a consultant to demonstrate the software to you should you want this.

 

The following groups have chosen Engage - United Church Schools, United learning Trust, CfBT, Aplha Plus, SEK, Aldar, etc etc.

 

Best regards,

 

Piers

Double First Chair