A Macs place in a primary school

[Dexi]

As a bit of a Mac novice, I've been trying to research the viability of using iPads and Macs in a primary school environment. A few of my schools are looking at moving over to Macs but thought they could just use all of their old software that currently runs on PC's around the school. As it turns out, it looks like next to none of it will run and I've been left with the task of finding software packages that they could use.

 

Has anyone got Macs in a Primary and what software is out there designed for KS1 and 2?

 

I'm also after some inspirational ways of using iPads in an education environment to justify purchasing some. (Again KS1 and KS2)

[GrumbleDook]

You could give bootcamp a try for that side of things ... give them a mix of both. Managing iPads already has some good discussions going on and the local BLT project doesn't have a complete answer yet, but you could speak with places like Little Harrowden for their experience.

 

If you are looking for 2Simple sort of applications then you could go for PurpleMash (2Simple stuff through an online environment). For office you could use Open Office for Kids ... a bit more friendly for KS1. If you are on twitter I would also look at those using the hashtag #northantsblt and ask them for their suggestions (or come along to one of the BLT development days).

[dhicks]

I've been left with the task of finding software packages that they could use.

 

Which sounds like a good reason to switch to web-based content and applications.

 

I'm also after some inspirational ways of using iPads in an education environment to justify purchasing some.

 

You can use them instead of an IWB - simply use an iPad as a wireless VNC client for a computer connected to a projector, then you don't need to purchase (or upgrade) an IWB. There are a number of VNC apps available, and several apps that turn your iPad (or iPhone) into a mouse-pad-like controller for your projected display. These work via VNC but simply don't display anything client-side, so should work well over even the crummiest of wireless networks. If you need free IWB software that is licensed to run without having specific hardware present, then Sankore looks like a good choice:

 

https://adullact.net/projects/sankore/

[jamesmay]

We are a Mac and PC Junior School, plus a number of ipads. We use stuff like the ilife suite, comic book magiq, i can animate, I can present, Edalive and all the lego robotics stuff. Dont forget it is possible to bootcamp a mac so you can run OSX and Windows on them, so use the legacy windows software plus mac software. Much of the software on mac now has PC equivalents, including the ilife stuff (microsoft live) but often the mac ones are a little easier to use. iPads we find are fantastic for SEN use, can give you a list of the apps we are using with significant success.

 

Mac Software to Look at:

 

Comic Life Magiq/Comic Life 2 - Fantastic Programs not only for creating comics (great for literacy/cross curricular subjects) but also for creating some really good design work, ie posters, books etc.

 

icananimate - the simplest but most feature packed animation program out there

 

icanpresent - a new way of presenting information, auto cues, green screening etc...

 

ilife - websites/podcasts/music/movies/photos . we mainly use iweb and imovie but can create impressive results with minimal effort, kids in our ict clubs are really enjoying using the movie trailers projects in imovie and putting in there own little videos and text. We also have single licenses for rapidweaver (webdesign on the easy) and pixelmator (photoshop made easy) which if we were looking for slightly more in web design/photo editing we would use on all machines.

 

other stuff; microsoft office

 

photobooth- cant explain how much the kids love this still...

 

edalive - is nice but often there are similar web flash games out there!

[rbelson]

Hi Dexi

 

some schools that we work with are happy to share their experiences to date with iPad and Mac. Let me know if you find this of use.

[Dexi]

Wow, 4 great responses right there. Thanks goes to all of you.

 

Tony, purple mash was the only one I'd really found that had the software that primaries were already used to and it is great. Being online does save deployment issues. I've not come across openoffice for kids which I feel ashamed about, it sounds like a perfect solution... and free. :-)

 

Jamesmay, that is a great looking list of software. We'll be testing some of these out ready to show some schools in the near future. Thanks.

 

Rbelson, we are certainly up for hearing from some of your schools and how they use their iPads and Macs. Due to a lack of Apple knowledge on my part, it means it's hard to make schools enthusiastic about how they can use Apple products in the classroom. If schools/teachers aren't enthusiastic, then they will be the most expensive dust catchers in the school and it'd be such a waste.

[GrumbleDook]

@dexi - have you had a chat with any of the Mac suppliers who are getting kit into the local schools? Glyn up at KRCS is a good contact or Jo at Solutions Inc (other Apple Solutions Experts are available). I'll also try and dig out the list of schools which had the Apple RTC kit over the last year to see what they did recently.

[SYNACK]

Why are they changing to Macs if they don't have a clear reason too and an understanding of the differences. I'm all for a dual platform school, we have Macs in the library with the standard Mac software. iThis and iThat.

[dhicks]

iPads we find are fantastic for SEN use, can give you a list of the apps we are using with significant success.

 

How are they fantastic - the handy form factor, specific bits of software, or are the children (currently) just impressed by the new hardware? Previous tablet computers in school haven't made much impression (there was a school in Kent somewhere that gave all year 7s an RM Tablet PC years ago), I'm interested in why the iPad might actually work this time. If the reasons for its success are more to do with the tablet computer form-factor in general, rather than the iPad specifically, then other tablets exist and might be worth a look.

 

Is anyone using iPads or other tablets for handwriting practice - do they work well for that task? In theory it sounds like a good idea - have a computer that can set handwriting exercises on-screen and have the child write on the screen and have the results assesed by the computer, but I'm not sure how well writing with a stylus on a screen works in practice. It's be good to hear from anyone with practical experience.

[jamesmay]

How are they fantastic - the handy form factor, specific bits of software, or are the children (currently) just impressed by the new hardware? Previous tablet computers in school haven't made much impression (there was a school in Kent somewhere that gave all year 7s an RM Tablet PC years ago), I'm interested in why the iPad might actually work this time. If the reasons for its success are more to do with the tablet computer form-factor in general, rather than the iPad specifically, then other tablets exist and might be worth a look.

 

Is anyone using iPads or other tablets for handwriting practice - do they work well for that task? In theory it sounds like a good idea - have a computer that can set handwriting exercises on-screen and have the child write on the screen and have the results assesed by the computer, but I'm not sure how well writing with a stylus on a screen works in practice. It's be good to hear from anyone with practical experience.

 

I'd say its a combination of the 3, with a bit of UI thrown in too. In the beginning it was "oh wow ipads" and there was excitement that they were using something new and shiny, now they are held in awe because of what apps they are using and the ease of interface. We found it engages pupils in different ways, that before were difficult to engage with. Whilst many of the apps we use prob have a PC or flash game counterpart, being able to use a finger to control has made all the difference, improving motor skills and coordination as well as the ability to pick it up and just use it.

 

The strategy we took was to give to the TAs not the teachers, so that they wasn't put into a draw and the teacher holding the knowledge on them. The TAs were working in small groups with the SENs and could identify core problems with their skills. Having the ipad to work 1on1 or in small groups has help re-enforced what the rest of the class are doing as well as meeting the other targets they have.

 

The apps we use, but aren't limited to:

 

Handwriting - Drawing a letter if you cant actually use a pen to draw it has helped. I know there are low tech ways of doing this but with the wow factor and the visual feedback works well.

 

Spellings - Again writing spellings down for some children works, but spelling apps, reading the word out, making it fun has made learning spelling and doing the test interesting.

 

Memory Games - If you have poor memory skills how are you going to remember spellings.

 

Basic Maths - Number identification and number bonds, an interactive way of demonstrating problems

 

Fractions... The list could go on forever, ill post up a more definitive list once i have one of the school configured and not admin ipads in hand.

 

 

I'm not in favour of having everything in the schools run off ipad (yet), but as a game changer for pupils who are hard to engage, its amazing.

 

James

[SimpleSi]

If the reasons for its success are more to do with the tablet computer form-factor in general, rather than the iPad specifically, then other tablets exist and might be worth a look.

 

I think this (hopefully) will be the case.

 

I want to support and recommend the best available devices but value for money has its place as well and forking out for some tablets at twice the price of a netbook - its a tricky one.

 

Ipad/'droidpad tablets are much more engaging for TA/group work with apps that don't need much keyboard input.

 

 

The Ipads are probably always going to have the best apps even when £200 equivalent 'droidpads become the market leader so its going to end up in a 3 way choice

 

1. Win Netbooks - cheap,cheerful and run all existing software (and cloud stuff as well)

 

2. Ipads - pricy - some great apps that other platforms don't match up with but existing Win Software (2Simple,StudioCT,Sherston,RMMaths) is out the window so its going to cost even more money to replace these. DOn't know about intergrating into existing file storage network but assuming this is possble.

 

3. 'droidpads (when available at £200 and same hardware spec as IPad and proxy works!) - little edu apps yet but no doubt they'll come along shortly but probably won't be able to match the best IPad apps - same access to cloud apps as IPad/Win clients - same loss of access to existing legacy software.

 

 

IMHO unless your a AppleFanSchool with loads of dosh the value for money element says mix/match netbooks/'droidpads for primaries over the next 12 months.

Edited March 18, 2011 by SimpleSi

[jamesmay]

I think if you were going down a route of having many then maybe a android/win pad would be the way forward but on a small deployment basic the ipad will give better value for what apps etc are on offer. I dont think netbooks can be really included in the comparison, because of what the idea of the tablet offers. Its providing an interface that is more direct and personal, rather than using a trackpad and keyboard.

 

A good app to check out if you are using ipads ; Pictello - We downloaded this yesterday, think of it as a clicker for the ipad. Story telling with pictures, Text to speach and voice recording. Very cool.

[dhicks]

Ipads - pricy - some great apps that other platforms don't match up with but existing Win Software (2Simple,StudioCT,Sherston,RMMaths) is out the window so its going to cost even more money to replace these.

 

Assuming you have a decent wireless system, it should be possible to run most of your existing Windows software via an RDP session from the iPad. It's not ideal, the interface probably won't be quite as suitible, but it would make a good-enough solution while you obtain/rewrite the Windows software for the iPad. The same should hold for any tablet device capable of running an RDP (or VNC) session, of course.

[HodgeHi]

With the implementation of Mobile computing and VLE's most educational software is being made available for online use. Most educational software is usually flash-based and most licensing is changing to incorporate VLEs as well. I know that the interactive charts (Daydream education?) can now be licensed for VLE use. It costs a little more but more useful IMO.

 

The only issue with this direction is that Apple's hardware doesn't support flash yet. It's an interesting stance since if anyone here has used flash on a Mac you will know just how bad it really is. As soon as Adobe release a version that does't require 100% use of a qua-core processor to display a video then I'm sure Mr. Jobs will change his mind.

 

Also with the release of Lion/Lion Server comes the Profile Server. This should allow establishments to deploy and manage Apple hardware more easily.

[SimpleSi]

it should be possible to run most of your existing Windows software via an RDP session from the iPad.

 

I don't think this would be practible - you need some sort of clever gateway to allow the pads to connect to idle machines

 

With the implementation of Mobile computing and VLE's most educational software is being made available for online use.

 

And needs to be purchased so yet again more cost for software just because you've changed clients/client mode of use.

 

I dont think netbooks can be really included in the comparison, because of what the idea of the tablet offers.

 

Pads are not netbook/laptops+ they are laptops + and - (Better interaction but worse text entry for instance)

 

Netbooks have trackpads, webcams,keyboards,screens,mic,speakers,bluetooth,wi-fi etc . They are primary pupil friendly size

 

I use them a lot in classes - they do the job of the previous gen laptops, the batteries last 2-3 times as long which makes them available for far more lessons in the day, the built in webcam lets "everyone" do story telling through stop-go animation and even green screening (although vid is not great at 12fps )

 

As well as seeing them used for KS2 work - I see KS1 pupils using them for interactive content such as CBBC games/education city/espresso

 

I love netbooks

 

But at the moment, it looks like there is the possibility of a major change coming (Like when affordable laptops first hit schools) but its very tricky to predict correctly what's going to happen in IT

(Someone will be right - but who that someone is is impossible to know )

 

Si

[dhicks]

Whilst many of the apps we use prob have a PC or flash game counterpart, being able to use a finger to control has made all the difference, improving motor skills and coordination as well as the ability to pick it up and just use it. The strategy we took was to give to the TAs not the teachers, so that they wasn't put into a draw and the teacher holding the knowledge on them. The TAs were working in small groups with the SENs and could identify core problems with their skills. Having the ipad to work 1on1 or in small groups has help re-enforced what the rest of the class are doing as well as meeting the other targets they have.

 

Very useful, thanks. We're having a push on handwriting skills here at the moment - I'm wondering if touch-enabled tablet devices would help, or whether writing with a stylus would be better? I tried out a couple of tablets at BETT and found resistive screens (as with the Intel Classmate laptops) worked best with a stylus, quite nicly mimicking a pen-on-paper. Capacative touch would work better for touch-based applications, and if you've found that having pupils trace a letter with their finger helps just as much as using a stylus/pen than that makes for an interesting observation when based on practical experience.

 

as a game changer for pupils who are hard to engage, its amazing.

 

I wonder why that is? I use, on a daily basis, a 5-ish-year-old RM Tablet PC with pretty much the same specification as an iPad - Same sized screen (1024 X 768), I've swapped the harddrive for an SSD so the storage is probably better, new battery (although an iPad probably still manages better battery time), probably about the same processing power, and of course it supports Flash. The main differences are the lack of touch screen (the Tablet PC uses a stylus), the OS (Windows XP Tablet Edition instead of iOS, although I'm wondering if Windows 7 would work) and Apple's current marketing/market share/brand awareness. What is it about the iPad that makes it work that the Tablet PC never managed to accomplish?

[dhicks]

I don't think this would be practible - you need some sort of clever gateway to allow the pads to connect to idle machines

 

Or a TS / Remote Desktop Services server?

 

And needs to be purchased so yet again more cost for software just because you've changed clients/client mode of use.

 

You could just re-do the content yourself.

[eddyc]

@Dexi most of the Sherston titles are now dual platform - atleast the later titles that we've had to install into the primaries that we support.

 

Thanks, Ed.

[SYNACK]

the OS (Windows XP Tablet Edition instead of iOS, although I'm wondering if Windows 7 would work) and Apple's current marketing/market share/brand awareness. What is it about the iPad that makes it work that the Tablet PC never managed to accomplish?

 

Windows 7 works great on old tablets as long as it does not have weird hardware, I am running it right now on an hp tc420 with 1GB of RAM and it is great, no aero but it goes fine.

 

The iOS devices are more designed for less fine grained input (clumbsy jabs with a finger), where as windows is still point centric requireing more accuracy. iOS is also a much more 'simple' OS with very limited features making it more like an appliance. This seems to be all the rage as people get mad at anything more complex than a toaster in todays culture.

 

Or a TS / Remote Desktop Services server?

 

 

 

You could just re-do the content yourself.

 

With RDP you are going to need CALs for the server and probably CALs for some of the software that you are running off it. It also has concequence of turning your $800 device into a really expencive remote for a real machine.

 

Redoing the content yourself might be an option for some stuff but with most you would be angering the copywrite monster.

[dhicks]

Windows 7 works great on old tablets as long as it does not have weird hardware, I am running it right now on an hp tc420 with 1GB of RAM and it is great, no aero but it goes fine.

 

Handy to know, thanks.

 

The iOS devices are more designed for less fine grained input (clumbsy jabs with a finger), where as windows is still point centric requireing more accuracy.

 

Good point - I wonder if there's any HTML5 / Flash user interface libraries that have taken tablet finger-input in to account yet?

 

Redoing the content yourself might be an option for some stuff but with most you would be angering the copywrite monster.

 

No, re-do it properly - don't copy any assets from the original, just re-do the whole thing, images, video, audio, the lot.

[SYNACK]

Good point - I wonder if there's any HTML5 / Flash user interface libraries that have taken tablet finger-input in to account yet?

 

No, re-do it properly - don't copy any assets from the original, just re-do the whole thing, images, video, audio, the lot.

 

Looks like both HTML5 and flash support multitouch gestures, there again so does Windows7, OSX and other OSs.

 

Making entirely new educational resources and activities takes time and effort, that kind of thing would have to be recognised by your school and funded or at least have time alloated to it. Given the cost of the time and the inhouse expertiese required many schools would probably choose to get it from external providers.

 

Besides there would almost certainly be a backlash if prized educational content was being made by someone 'without a teaching qualification' and as such was stable enough to run without days of initial handholding by the technical staff. I often feel that educational software is so bad because it is written by ex teachers who do not want to inadvertently replace themselves and their peers with a bit of software accidentally.

[dhicks]

Given the cost of the time and the inhouse expertiese required many schools would probably choose to get it from external providers.

 

I figure it'd be easier if schools simply became the external providors - if you have a set of resources you want done, hire someone to do it and sell the resulting content to other schools. The expertise and equipment needed to do a full multimedia production should be fairly minimal these days - you should just need a computer and a camcorder really.

[SimpleSi]

Besides there would almost certainly be a backlash if prized educational content was being made by someone 'without a teaching qualification' and as such was stable enough to run without days of initial handholding by the technical staff. I often feel that educational software is so bad because it is written by ex teachers who do not want to inadvertently replace themselves and their peers with a bit of software accidentally.

 

How dare you malign the skills of some of greatest coders in the universe that produced such things as Report Assist - a ground breaking application that wasn't afraid to throw windows programming standards through the window in the quest to break new frontiers

[jamesmay]

Very useful, thanks. We're having a push on handwriting skills here at the moment - I'm wondering if touch-enabled tablet devices would help, or whether writing with a stylus would be better? I tried out a couple of tablets at BETT and found resistive screens (as with the Intel Classmate laptops) worked best with a stylus, quite nicly mimicking a pen-on-paper. Capacative touch would work better for touch-based applications, and if you've found that having pupils trace a letter with their finger helps just as much as using a stylus/pen than that makes for an interesting observation when based on practical experience.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder why that is? I use, on a daily basis, a 5-ish-year-old RM Tablet PC with pretty much the same specification as an iPad - Same sized screen (1024 X 768), I've swapped the harddrive for an SSD so the storage is probably better, new battery (although an iPad probably still manages better battery time), probably about the same processing power, and of course it supports Flash. The main differences are the lack of touch screen (the Tablet PC uses a stylus), the OS (Windows XP Tablet Edition instead of iOS, although I'm wondering if Windows 7 would work) and Apple's current marketing/market share/brand awareness. What is it about the iPad that makes it work that the Tablet PC never managed to accomplish?

 

We have some SEN students who have struggled to even get the shapes of letters right. While we are teaching them using pencils, paper, dry-wipeboards, using the ipad is a good warm up or supplementary activity. Using apps to develop the letter shape, independent of a stylus (pencil or e-based) takes away the concentration on said writing implement and ensures that the letters created are legible. Introducing the pencil after this, we have seen that the pupils struggling have much more legible handwriting and are less stressed about the way they hold the pencil.

 

This is what I am trying to work out. We have an old RM slate and its never seen much use, no one seemed bothered by it. Is it because the ipad is made by apple so people are forcing themselves to like it because they are the new consumer electronics darlings, or is it the mass market appeal it holds with its ease of use and touch centric apps? Will something better come along? Yes it will, either from Apple or Dell or HP or whomever, but at present I think too much is made of android and the way its talked up. A touch OS from microsoft that isnt just a regular desktop might be the way things move forward.

[SYNACK]

The iPad thing in schools makes me physically ill, I was in a primary today using a tablet PC and in one class it practically stopped the lesson as the whole class in true primary school style 'quietly' proclaimed that I had an iPad. This went on for about 5 minutes while I was reconfigureing a bit of errant hardware. At one point I opened it up to use the keyboard for something and heard one child say, oh its just a laptop.

 

When confronted with this it is hard to see how it is not just media hype and sheep mentality that leads to this, like Windows Vista people are so polluted by what they are told to think that they can't quite manage to think for themselves. This leads to situations like the above where they are totally wowed by what a device can do until they find out what it is and figure out that they are not supposed to like it.

 

There may well be some areas like SEN where the iPad can provide better interaction and so better learning but this should not devalue other tools in other areas.