Trident Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 I cant see that anyone has spoken about the formula to calculate the number of FTE's and this can be quite important. Typically, its not as easy as you might think. The full time employee count also takes into account part time employees...... The formula published by Microsoft is as follows: Full time Faculty + Part time Faculty - divided by 3 + Full time Staff + Part time staff - divided by 3 As an example, a school with 10 full time faculty, 30 part time faculty, 10 full time staff and 15 Part time staff would have the following FTE's: 10+10+10+5 = a total of 35 FTE's.
localzuk Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 That is the US formula from what I know. The licensing expert at the Conference at the Microsoft Campus said that it is as simple as 'if your staff work over 200 hours a year, you include them - but only if they use a computer'. There is no other formula from what we were told by Microsoft. 1
dgsmith Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 I cant see that anyone has spoken about the formula to calculate the number of FTE's and this can be quite important. Typically, its not as easy as you might think. The full time employee count also takes into account part time employees...... The formula published by Microsoft is as follows: Full time Faculty + Part time Faculty - divided by 3 + Full time Staff + Part time staff - divided by 3 As an example, a school with 10 full time faculty, 30 part time faculty, 10 full time staff and 15 Part time staff would have the following FTE's: 10+10+10+5 = a total of 35 FTE's. I thought this was just for the USA and that the UK or Europe(?) one was just an employee who works over 200hrs/year and has regular access to a PC? I wish we did use the American formula as it would mean our calculated FTE could to be a fair bit lower! [edit]localz beat me to it [/edit] 1
Trident Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Interesting, this formula came from the Microsoft rep at one of the UK's major distributors...... I will check my sources!
camel Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) As far as I was aware, the count for FTE is members of staff that has access to a shared workstation and works over 200 or 300 hours a year. The formula I thought was for the US and Canada customers? Which implies that you can exclude catering and cleaning staff from the FTE and lunch time supervisors if they do not access a shared workstations. Correct me if I'm wrong? Rob [edit]localz beat me to it Ditto! [/edit] Edited March 10, 2011 by camel 1
plexer Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Yup any staff who work 200+ hours a year and use a computer. Ben 1
Trident Posted March 10, 2011 Posted March 10, 2011 Apologies & thanks to all for pointing out this mistake. I'm off now to hunt down my Microsoft rep. You are all correct that a UK FTE is someone who works 200+hrs per year and users a computer. BANG.....
chriscubed Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) I've been reading a bit and the EES (or OVS-ES) looks interesting, especially as we have in the region of 1000 PCs and probably about 120 FTE staff. I passed this on to my manager who obtained a quote (from a company I won't name) for both OVS-ES and SA, but they're saying SA will work out cheaper for us! I've seen the quote and it doesn't look right to me - they've quoted for Desktop packs * FTE, which sounds fine, but also included costs for 900 student desktop packs. Without going into too much detail, we have an e-learning laptop scheme for students where the students contribute to paying for laptops owned (or leased) by the school, so I don't know if there are any exceptions here.. I thought the whole point was you didn't have to cover each individual machine in this fashion because you just pay for FTE staff * desktop pack cost, plus any server software such as SQL and Windows Server - can anyone enlighten me on this or confirm my suspicions that the quote is wrong? EDIT: Just thought I'd highlight, the 900 student desktop packs account for £15,000 out of the £21,000 quote, so it's pretty significant to us! Edited March 16, 2011 by chriscubed
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 You pay up to the number of FTE staff you have. So if you have 120 staff, you pay for 120 desktop packs, and the others are licensed anyway. However, if your laptops are only used by individual pupils and aren't shared machines, the pricing is extra for those from what I've been told.
Max_Power Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 However, if your laptops are only used by individual pupils and aren't shared machines, the pricing is extra for those from what I've been told. What defines a shared machine for a student? We have a laptop ratio of 1:1 but they do not necessarily always use the exact same laptop, even though they are stored within the same classroom. Does that mean they are shared machines because today you could use number 1 and then tomorrow use number 21???
paulnharris Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Hi, you are correct that your FTE count will cover all the desktops in your school By including the 'Student Option' in your OVS-ES, you can license selected products and services for use on your students’ personally-owned devices or on organisation-owned devices that are individually assigned to a student’s exclusive use (for example, a laptop checked out to a student for the school year). Some organizations choose to recover costs by charging the cost of Student Option to students. Some schools include this cost as part of the student technology fee, enrollment fee, or entrance fee. This is completely up to your organisation’s discretion and any applicable laws.
chriscubed Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks for the reply, localzuk This would probably explain the confusion and why they have quoted for it. However, it is difficult to know whether that is right or not, with the various documents I've been reading. Obviously whether this is a huge question to us, if they dont have to be licensed we stand to save £12-15k per year. From the RM document mentioned in this thread Enrolment for Education Solutions (EES) EES Student option Is a convenient cost effective way for establishments to license products for all students for exclusive use on their home or personal computer or one owned by the institution that is checked out to them for their use. From this quote, I can see where they are coming from. However, how do you define whether the computer is "checked out to them for their use" - what if other students use and share those laptops in school - do they then not have to be licensed additonally?
teejay Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I've been reading a bit and the EES (or OVS-ES) looks interesting, especially as we have in the region of 1000 PCs and probably about 120 FTE staff. I passed this on to my manager who obtained a quote (from a company I won't name) for both OVS-ES and SA, but they're saying SA will work out cheaper for us! I've seen the quote and it doesn't look right to me - they've quoted for Desktop packs * FTE, which sounds fine, but also included costs for 900 student desktop packs. Without going into too much detail, we have an e-learning laptop scheme for students where the students contribute to paying for laptops owned (or leased) by the school, so I don't know if there are any exceptions here.. I thought the whole point was you didn't have to cover each individual machine in this fashion because you just pay for FTE staff * desktop pack cost, plus any server software such as SQL and Windows Server - can anyone enlighten me on this or confirm my suspicions that the quote is wrong? EDIT: Just thought I'd highlight, the 900 student desktop packs account for £15,000 out of the £21,000 quote, so it's pretty significant to us! Localzuk is correct, if a computer is individually assigned to a student, ie they take it home etc, then that isn't covered by the desktop pack and so you need the student option for the number of students assigned a computer. This is the same for EES and Schools Agreement I believe.
teejay Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks for the reply, localzuk This would probably explain the confusion and why they have quoted for it. However, it is difficult to know whether that is right or not, with the various documents I've been reading. Obviously whether this is a huge question to us, if they dont have to be licensed we stand to save £12-15k per year. From the RM document mentioned in this thread Enrolment for Education Solutions (EES) From this quote, I can see where they are coming from. However, how do you define whether the computer is "checked out to them for their use" - what if other students use and share those laptops in school - do they then not have to be licensed additonally? If you allocate a laptop to a specific student and they are the main user, ie they take it home or use the same laptop every day, then you need the extra pack. If you have a pool of laptops and they are allocated each day randomly to students, then you don't need it.
paulnharris Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Microsoft term a Student Qualified Desktop (i.e. requires Student option) as follows 'A Qualified desktop owned or leased by a Student, or that is owned or leased by Institutions Organisation and assigned for individual, dedicated use by a Student'
chriscubed Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Localzuk is correct, if a computer is individually assigned to a student, ie they take it home etc, then that isn't covered by the desktop pack and so you need the student option for the number of students assigned a computer. This is the same for EES and Schools Agreement I believe. I see. Of course, we currently pay for the student packs under Schools Agreement - and it's a large sum of money every year. When I heard the news of the EES agreements, where it was based on FTE staff rather than devices, it sounded great - but for us EES will work out around £4k more than Schools Agreement, to the tune of £21,000 per year. From what I've read, SA will eventually be replaced by EES, which is even more worrying for us. I can't tell you how disappointed I am by this "brilliant new scheme".
localzuk Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I see. Of course, we currently pay for the student packs under Schools Agreement - and it's a large sum of money every year. When I heard the news of the EES agreements, where it was based on FTE staff rather than devices, it sounded great - but for us EES will work out around £4k more than Schools Agreement, to the tune of £21,000 per year. From what I've read, SA will eventually be replaced by EES, which is even more worrying for us. I can't tell you how disappointed I am by this "brilliant new scheme". The licensing bod at MS specifically said that SA wouldn't be disappearing.
Trident Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 (edited) Please note that the following information is based on the "Enrollment for Education Solutions Program Guide" from the US Micrposoft site. the full doc can be found here: Microsoft Enrollment for Education Solutions: Academic discounts on Microsoft Software for Education Customers If you look for the term 'student option' you will see the following: The EES Student Option provides a convenient and cost-effective way for you to license selected products for use by your students on a personally-owned device or an institution-owned device assigned to the student’s exclusive use (i.e., a device checked out to a student for the school year). So if the US rules apply to the UK??, you would only have to buy seperate student licenses if you give a machine to a single student for a full year. Otherwise they will be covered by the standard FTE count. Edited March 16, 2011 by Trident
elsiegee40 Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 The licensing bod at MS specifically said that SA wouldn't be disappearing. What he said. M$ were very pleased with themselves over EES, but with their definition of 'Full Time' being so ridiculously small (200 hours per year) EES will not suit quite a lot of schools.
chriscubed Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 The licensing bod at MS specifically said that SA wouldn't be disappearing. Well that's good to know - there's so much conflicting and confusing information out there. Unfortunately though, it still leaves us with a large bill of ~£17k a year currently under SA, and now no prospect of a decent system which would bring this down to a more reasonable level, all because of how we choose to provide laptops to our students.
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