[sims] Discover delayed already :(

[creese]

Link was fine.

 

Alarm bells started last month when we were shown screenshots and not a working demo. If I were a gambling man I would have put money on it being late.

[vikpaw]

Link was fine.

 

Alarm bells started last month when we were shown screenshots and not a working demo. If I were a gambling man I would have put money on it being late.

 

Many such concerns were passed on to me at #BETT2011 namely, accurate launch date; spec needed for graphics; actual working product.

[creese]

Many such concerns were passed on to me at #BETT2011 namely, accurate launch date; spec needed for graphics; actual working product.

 

People must get used to the Capita Equation. Launch date + degree of hype / percentage of core module - complexity of module x 1 upgrade = Actual launch date.

Or in simple terms, add a month to stated launch date and then one upgrade before you should think about using it in anger. Then it is good software. They are just too keen to rush things out, we always hang fire.

[Sivadam]

I would urge any high end users of SIMS that share these opinoions to volunteer for SIMS Field Trials and for UAT!

[LosOjos]

I would urge any high end users of SIMS that share these opinoions to volunteer for SIMS Field Trials and for UAT!

 

I'd love to take part in UAT & Field Trials, how do you go about getting enrolled on them?

[creese]

I would urge any high end users of SIMS that share these opinoions to volunteer for SIMS Field Trials and for UAT!

 

If only we could. I'm not knocking the final software, if anything it's the marketing of new modules. Slow down, get it right.

 

Dinner Money 7 was released but had a number of the features of the old module missing. It's caught up now and works well, but was a nightmare to support at the start. It was difficult as the users wanted to go back to the old module.

[vikpaw]

I would urge any high end users of SIMS that share these opinoions to volunteer for SIMS Field Trials and for UAT!

 

It's not always that easy to get on them though. As you said, for Discover it was oversubscribed.

 

I'd love to take part in UAT & Field Trials, how do you go about getting enrolled on them?

 

Check supportnet for notifications. Try emailing [email protected] to get registered for the mailing list, and / or contact the following person.

For some testing, you do need to have a test/virtual setup in place as you're not allowed to use on a live system.

 

Linda

Linda Beresford

Field Trial Support Officer

CapitaChildren's Services

Priory Business Park, Priory Court,

Cardington, Bedford, MK44 3JZ

Tel: 01234 838080 ext. 2822

[vikpaw]

People must get used to the Capita Equation. Launch date + degree of hype / percentage of core module - complexity of module x 1 upgrade = Actual launch date.

Or in simple terms, add a month to stated launch date and then one upgrade before you should think about using it in anger. Then it is good software. They are just too keen to rush things out, we always hang fire.

 

Hence i used the term 'already', except it was pointed out that that was being too pessimistic

[Sivadam]

If only we could. I'm not knocking the final software, if anything it's the marketing of new modules. Slow down, get it right.

I am afraid if we waited while everything was 'right' then the SIMS Software would never be released! At UAT I nearly always suggest things that 'are not right', in my humble opinion. What suits me and my school may not suit somebody else, so how can Capita 'get it right' for all 21,000+ schools who use SIMS? Sometimes the delays are caused by UAT Testers, like myself, finding something that does not work with their own particular data. This has happened on a couple of times with my data, when the functionality that was planned has not been released 'on time' and has gone back to the developers. On other UAT test data it probably did work!

[LosOjos]

I am afraid if we waited while everything was 'right' then the SIMS Software would never be released! At UAT I nearly always suggest things that 'are not right', in my humble opinion. What suits me and my school may not suit somebody else, so how can Capita 'get it right' for all 21,000+ schools who use SIMS? Sometimes the delays are caused by UAT Testers, like myself, finding something that does not work with their own particular data. This has happened on a couple of times with my data, when the functionality that was planned has not been released 'on time' and has gone back to the developers. On other UAT test data it probably did work!

 

The methods of using new features not suiting you and the new features simply not working are very different things though.

 

I can understand that Capita can't please everyone, as each school will have a different idea of how their data should be stored and used; that's fine. In my mind what UAT should point out is glaring mistakes such as inability to add more than 6 additional info columns to a printed marksheet (some schools might not want more than 6, but no school would complain if they could add more than 6), or the inability to sort user defined groups by name (a mental one that! Thankfully PhilNeal saw the posts here about it and got it fixed though )

 

I think the point I'm getting at is, as long as something is bug free, get it out to schools. It's only when it's used with live data that schools will see real scope for improvement anyway.

[creese]

I am afraid if we waited while everything was 'right' then the SIMS Software would never be released! At UAT I nearly always suggest things that 'are not right', in my humble opinion. What suits me and my school may not suit somebody else, so how can Capita 'get it right' for all 21,000+ schools who use SIMS? Sometimes the delays are caused by UAT Testers, like myself, finding something that does not work with their own particular data. This has happened on a couple of times with my data, when the functionality that was planned has not been released 'on time' and has gone back to the developers. On other UAT test data it probably did work!

 

As I said, I'm not knocking the software but the marketing. You see all the shiny brochures... then the delays and at the various meetings with the Capita people on the coalface, you find out the true situation. Schools pick up on the hype and there is a rush to use software not quite ready to be rolled out to anyone other than a competant user. Less early deadlines, more realistic release dates.

 

We never release updates as we have been caught too many times by recalls.

[Sivadam]

I agree with you.

And normally delays are the result of functionality not working on a test dataset. This delay is slightly different! But in my opinion well founded!

 

The issue with UDGs had been on the system for many years. I myself had written a CR to amend this years ago, but it seems that the issue had been misunderstood. Phil recognised it as a software error and acted on that. Indeed, I was consulted for my opinion on the topic and I was able to feed back to them before the issue was resolved!

From a user point of view it was difficult to ascertain whether it was a fault with the early development of the system, i.e. not developed to spec, or if it was a software malfunction - which it proved to be!

And well done Edugeek! I know that Phil reads the Forums on here quite regularly!

[PhilNeal]

I've been away most of this week so haven't caught up with this thread.

 

Firstly at BETT2010 we did think that the second half of 2010 was realistic but it clearly wasn't and by the way real software was being demo'd with one exception. Since then we've changed all of the graphics and taken on board a lot of feedback from schools and in particular ASCL.

 

The brief that we gave the development team was not "it must run on a hair dryer" it was this has got to make it easy for data to be understood. I haven't met a single head and I've met a lot that think that spending a couple of hundred pounds extra on a computer was a problem when assessed against being able to help them understand where they need to put effort into raising attainment.

 

Of course we'll do our best to ensure that it runs on the widest range of kit possible but that is not the priority.

[vikpaw]

SIMS Discover was NEVER scheduled to be released in Autumn - except to the Field Trial Schools! This is actually what has happened.

The release to all schools was always scheduled for the Spring Release. The delay of a month has been arranged so that EXTRA functionality can be added as a result of requests by the Field Trial users!

Users will benefit from the enhancements and so waiting that extra few weeks will be well worth it!

What you saw at Bett 2011 was a version in advance of what the Field Trial schools have. We will see the updated software at the wokshops at the beginning of February! There was no 'Discover' at Bett 2010. What you saw was just the 'Concept' of what Discover would look like! I am sure that Chris would have explained this at the time!

 

I have still got a Copy of the SIMS 2010 Roadmap as well as the SIMS 2011 Roadmap and the dates are very clear on both!

 

I've been away most of this week so haven't caught up with this thread.

 

Firstly at BETT2010 we did think that the second half of 2010 was realistic but it clearly wasn't and by the way real software was being demo'd with one exception. Since then we've changed all of the graphics and taken on board a lot of feedback from schools and in particular ASCL.

 

The brief that we gave the development team was not "it must run on a hair dryer" it was this has got to make it easy for data to be understood. I haven't met a single head and I've met a lot that think that spending a couple of hundred pounds extra on a computer was a problem when assessed against being able to help them understand where they need to put effort into raising attainment.

 

Of course we'll do our best to ensure that it runs on the widest range of kit possible but that is not the priority.

 

Hang on, i'm really confused now. Who are we supposed to believe with regards to initial expected release date.

 

I don't think there is any question as to the usefulness of the software or how valuable it is to schools. It's fantastic, and it's been a long time since people really got excited about SIMS, without it being a fix, patch or new paid for module.

 

Really the problem as i see it, is that many of us need to get this tech delivered to our end users; and the more hype there is, and the more they want it (and all schools want to do something funky with data analysis), the less time we have to do deliver effectively.

 

If the hardware does need upgrading, cost will be a consideration, but the bigger issue is planning the purchase / upgrade. Fitting it in with existing plans to cascade machines and / or buy new kit. I know for a fact that we will most probably miss our deadline for new purchases, because we wont have it in time, and even if a spec' is published, i'd want to test it out, on a variety of kit also, to see what fits our needs best.

 

Similarly, more info on the workings of the system itself, would be really useful, so we can plan how to fit it in with existing analysis systems. I was really interested to see in the brochure that it will count 5 A* - C grades. This is news to me. Will it deal with the 'inc. maths/english/it' condition? How do you indicate those aspects to the system?

 

I've been telling people to hold off on certain tasks, and wait for Discover, yet, when it comes out, i can see a big learning curve for us before pushing it out to all staff.

 

It promises to be an awesome bit of kit, but i think the fact that we are getting it for free, has almost meant that you've not put the same marketing behind it as you do with paid for modules, where you'd have to sell the idea to us, and give us a lot of info up front so we knew what we were getting for the money.

[PhilNeal]

So as the MD of SIMS I am saying its later than we said at BETT 2010; no its never been on our schedule as autumn 2010 but that is what we had thought at the start of 2010.

 

It does deal with the 5 A* to C (of course it now needs to deal with the English BAC as well but that won't be in spring).

 

There are still improvements we know we can make to speed and hence it will work on lower spec kit in the future. I'm not a games player but I understand the same kit spec issues exist in this environment. I'm in Bedford on Monday and will see what the latest guidance is.

[Sivadam]

I'd love to take part in UAT & Field Trials, how do you go about getting enrolled on them?

I suggest you contact Capita directly. Ask for Georgina Trodd - she is the UAT Manager.

 

Check out the Sticky Items document on SupportNet called 'SIMS User Acceptance Test'.

 

Also watch out for the announcements on SupportNet and apply to attend one of the sessions!

Edited January 28, 2011 by Sivadam

[vikpaw]

So as the MD of SIMS I am saying its later than we said at BETT 2010; no its never been on our schedule as autumn 2010 but that is what we had thought at the start of 2010.

 

It does deal with the 5 A* to C (of course it now needs to deal with the English BAC as well but that won't be in spring).

 

There are still improvements we know we can make to speed and hence it will work on lower spec kit in the future. I'm not a games player but I understand the same kit spec issues exist in this environment. I'm in Bedford on Monday and will see what the latest guidance is.

 

Thanks Phil, just needed clarification, so no-one can be accused of knocking SIMS inappropriately or making untrue statements with no basis!

 

It does seem however, that some people are unclear on exactly what Discover does, and who it's aimed at. Is there any more literature available that we can share?

 

Any news from Bedford will also be gratefully received.

[krtek]

Hi there

 

My name is Dave Cattlin and I am lucky enough to lead a great SIMS Support team in Rochdale and also be involved in the Discover Field Trial.

 

WRT performance our feeling here, and with the caveat that we have been working with a pre-release version which may not be as efficient as the released product, is that the min requirement to make use of Discover may not be as high as previously stated.

 

Sure it runs a bit slow on underspec workstations but we have found that it remains very usable.

 

Direct on one of our school servers which has 4Gb RAM but no dedicated graphics card it runs like a train.

 

I would suggest that colleagues here may be best served by awaiting experience of the released product whilst maintaining options in planned replacement of kit.

 

I am sure that there will be many factors which will affect the user experience, not least their expectations and the quality of the data available as well as hardware and other systemic limitations but I feel that SIMS should be congratulated on making the investment in what will be, I am sure, a step change in the way in which MIS will be used in schools.

 

It's bold and the support implications terrify me - not mainly the support of discover itself but the work required in widening and maintaining the breadth of data which it will encourage schools to make use of.

 

The implementation of discover at a time of such change within the education sector and particularly as the government's spending review bites hard will need to be very well managed indeed.

 

Dave

Edited January 29, 2011 by krtek

[Sivadam]

I would suggest that colleagues here may be best served by awaiting experience of the released product whilst maintaining options in planned replacement of kit.

 

Sound advice krtek.

And exactly what I have been trying to imply thoughout this thread!

Patience is a virtue!

Edited January 29, 2011 by Sivadam

[PhilNeal]

A quick uodate on spec of kit required. I'm afraid it still isn't clear at all as to the exact requirement. We have 30 trial sites with a wide variety of kit and pupil numbers and there is no obvious pattern as to what gives a speedy response and what doesn't. Some kit that you would have expected to perform badly infact flies.

 

We'll be looking more closely at the variants over the next week and I will post again. I do know that a £30 graphic card made the difference bewteen acceptable and hopeless in one case.

[vikpaw]

Saw some interesting tweets today from yourself (phil) and johnhowarth. I take it testing is going well. I believe the term 'awesome' was used...?

 

Is it possible that some other factor is at play in affecting performance, not just graphical capabilities. I guess, the graphics card handles all the graphics on screen, but the actual data that it needs to deal with, must be processed in the main CPU / RAM . . . ? Actually, it sounds like it could be pretty complex interactions. hmm.

 

Interested in the feedback re. deploying via SOLUS 3 too, that will save some headache, when it comes to doing the spring update hopefully.

[Sivadam]

A quick uodate on spec of kit required. I'm afraid it still isn't clear at all as to the exact requirement. We have 30 trial sites with a wide variety of kit and pupil numbers and there is no obvious pattern as to what gives a speedy response and what doesn't. Some kit that you would have expected to perform badly infact flies.

 

We'll be looking more closely at the variants over the next week and I will post again. I do know that a £30 graphic card made the difference bewteen acceptable and hopeless in one case.

Thanks Phil,

I am eagerly looking forward to the update workshop next week! Anticipating a 'Wow!' from my Data Manager colleague who is attending with me!

I hope that some pattern to the specs issue can be evaluated by then!

Edited January 31, 2011 by Sivadam

[vikpaw]

Bit surprised there are only 30 sites to represent 22000+ (?)

[PhilNeal]

We used to involve more sites but found that many didn't have the time to do a through job but we were thinking everything is being hammered. We now limit the numbers and stay in touch with each site on a regular basis.

[vikpaw]

We used to involve more sites but found that many didn't have the time to do a through job but we were thinking everything is being hammered. We now limit the numbers and stay in touch with each site on a regular basis.

 

Is it possible to take data from other sites, and carry out some predefined tests on that?

I'd be happy for my data to be used, even though it's taking me ages to get the latest files down to the FTP server. On my last of 10, because some unknown person (accidentally deleted it!), now internet is v.flaky, so it's taking ages.