[sims] SupportNet and Helpdesk discussion

[Sivadam]

Berating people for using EduGeek rather than SupportNet seems to me to be akin to demanding they use AOL rather than Firefox...

 

I hope that comment was not directed to me as I have never 'berated' anybody for not using SupportNet - just advising them that maybe they ought to and expressing astonishment that some SIMS users have 'never heard of it' or 'never use it'.

 

My 'berating' has been against the innapropriate (my opinion) comments that this site has always allowed the past and should not be doing. Now that I am challenging such statements I am getting moderated and criticism myself, when nothing is done about the original statement that I (and others I may add!) object to. Not that I am particularly concerned at this as I am a big boy now and can stand on my own two feet and, hopefully, this will eventually lead to a better site in the long run! No amount of personal criticisms will stop me challenging these innapropriate statements.

 

I have left the site once and stayed away for quite a while but many users here contacted me and said that I ought to return and so... hey presto.... the 'bad penny' reappeared. I was very surprised about, and greatful for, the amount of support I did receive!

Edited July 22, 2010 by Sivadam

[localzuk]

One assumes you had checked KB72254 from SupportNet before posting to this thread??

 

That reads a lot like berating to me...

[Sivadam]

It is an assumption! Not a beration (if there is such a word)!

 

 

as·sump·tion (ə sump′s̸hən)

 

noun

• Religion the taking up of a person into heaven
  
• R.C.Ch.
  1. the taking up of the body and soul of the Virgin Mary into heaven after her death
     
  2. a church festival on Aug. 15 celebrating this
     

  [*]the act of assuming; a taking upon oneself, taking over, or taking for granted

  [*]anything taken for granted; supposition

  [*]presumption

be·rate (bĭ-rātˈ)

transitive verb berated be·rat·ed, berating be·rat·ing, be·rates

To rebuke or scold angrily and at length.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Sivadam

[MattMitchell]

To be fair, Sivadam, it seems likely that you were assuming the converse when you posted that...

[Sivadam]

To be fair, Sivadam, it seems likely that you were assuming the converse when you posted that...

 

That is one of problems with these forums. My posts (and all posts actually) need to be read as they stand. Nobody should extrapolate them to mean something that is not relevant to the actual words on the page.

 

To infer that I was 'rebuking or scolding angrily at length' is totally preposterous! It actually reads that I was 'taking it for granted' that the KB was read and that is because it is so easy to find this KB on SupportNet.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Sivadam

[localzuk]

That is one of problems with these forums. My posts (and all posts actually) need to be read as they stand. Nobody should extrapolate them to mean something that is not relevant to the actual words on the page.

 

Then you need to be more clear. Extra question marks at the end of a sentence indicate frustration and other such things.

[Sivadam]

Point taken. You are right on that one!

 

But even I get frustrated with the responses that I get here when I do respond in a reasonable manner.

 

I hereby apologise to all readers that I have upset by adding one extra question mark to a single line post!

 

That error is, indeed, unforgivable and I hereby retract that second question mark on the grounds that it MAY be misleading!

Edited July 22, 2010 by Sivadam

[Jeremy69]

SupportNet is a horrible site, anyone who has logged into it will see that the interface is a mash of random menus, links, input boxes and terms that to the average user mean nothing.

 

Anyone is entitled, of course, not to like a site. I used Supportnet for a long time and agree that there are areas such as logging change requests where it could certainly improve but when looking for solutions for SIMS problems I found it saved time and saved logging calls on occasion. There were plenty in my school who would not know what supportnet was (despite it turning up on quite a few SIMS screens) but they reported faults to me first and I could solve at least some of them as others on this site could also.

In supportnet and elsewhere I have found Sivadam very helpful and he has solved more than one problem for me and occasionally I hope I returned the favour. Supportnet is more targeted and thus in my view the first port of call for SIMS problems but yes it could certainly do with an overhaul in some areas.

 

Then you need to be more clear. Extra question marks at the end of a sentence indicate frustration and other such things

 

I expect you meant clearer but it isn't my experience that this is what a number of question marks mean rather surprise/shock over what is being said. Frustration is 27 exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[teejay]

I do use Supportnet a reasonable amount, particularly the knowledgebase which once you've got used to getting the search requests right is a very useful tool. I don't use the forums, I do know a couple of our staff do on a regular basis. As for the change requests, I gave up with those a long time ago as it just seems to be pot luck if they get actioned or just plain ignored with no notice taken of how many votes the request received. That may have changed, don't know if anyone on here has recent experience of it?

[Sivadam]

The change requests are analysed and are discussed at the Software Consultation Meetings that the SIMS Product Managers hold each year. These are advertised on Supportnet and Users can apply to attend these meetings.

Whether a CR is actioned will depend on how well it is supported (the meeting looks mainly at those that are well supported!) and if it fits in with the project improvement plans for the following year. Capitaes have a budget for this which is obviously not bottomless and so not all areas can be improved at the same time! It will also depend on how complicated it is to act on a CR. If a well supported CR cannot be actioned that particular year then there is usually an explanation given as to why it has not been approved.

If you have not attended a Software Consultation meeting then you may find it enlightening!

Edited July 22, 2010 by Sivadam

[creese]

If you have not attended a Software Consultation meeting then you may find it enlightening!

 

I have been involved in these. Some of the requests leave the room puzzled. Some would be great, for one or two schools. Some are great. But at least there is a chance to put your ideas forward.

 

If the DoE or whatever it is called this week would stop and let the software writers catch up maybe they could produce a good support site, almost totally stable software and so on. What other software company, apart from AV maybe has such a demand to meet with many deadlines dictated by third parties?

[pete]

I have been involved in these. Some of the requests leave the room puzzled. Some would be great, for one or two schools. Some are great. But at least there is a chance to put your ideas forward.

 

If the DoE or whatever it is called this week would stop and let the software writers catch up maybe they could produce a good support site, almost totally stable software and so on. What other software company, apart from AV maybe has such a demand to meet with many deadlines dictated by third parties?

 

Off the top of my head...... Microsoft, Adobe, most mainstream Linux distributions. Essentially any software firm where there's a lot of user requests for features and security vulns or bugs fixes reported by third parties, not to mention having to vet third-party code/fixes before integration into your product (latter example).

 

Capita is not an unique snowflake.

[creese]

Off the top of my head...... Microsoft, Adobe, most mainstream Linux distributions. Essentially any software firm where there's a lot of user requests for features and security vulns or bugs fixes reported by third parties, not to mention having to vet third-party code/fixes before integration into your product (latter example).

 

Capita is not an unique snowflake.

 

Obviously I'm not talking about security. When have microsoft added a number of 'features' because they were asked by the customer? My proof..... Office 2007, Vista, ME. Who asked for them? They just thought they would try something different, they failed, if you ask me. Where is Capita's ME?

[localzuk]

Obviously I'm not talking about security. When have microsoft added a number of 'features' because they were asked by the customer? My proof..... Office 2007, Vista, ME. Who asked for them? They just thought they would try something different, they failed, if you ask me. Where is Capita's ME?

 

I think you'd find that the design of Office 2007, Vista and ME were all driven by a) new technologies and more significantly b) user testing and trials. Microsoft, like any decent software company, involves users from the design stage through to the release stage - to gauge their response to things.

 

To think that they just dictatorially change their software without consulting users? That's a little odd.

 

Capita's ME? SIMS.net a few years back. Where updates would regularly go wrong. Where there were a plethora of applications not yet integrated into the .Net system? etc... That could very well be Capita's ME.

[creese]

I think you'd find that the design of Office 2007, Vista and ME were all driven by a) new technologies and more significantly b) user testing and trials. Microsoft, like any decent software company, involves users from the design stage through to the release stage - to gauge their response to things.

 

To think that they just dictatorially change their software without consulting users? That's a little odd.

 

Capita's ME? SIMS.net a few years back. Where updates would regularly go wrong. Where there were a plethora of applications not yet integrated into the .Net system? etc... That could very well be Capita's ME.

 

All true if you stretch your imagination with a very strong stretcher thing.

[pete]

Obviously I'm not talking about security. When have microsoft added a number of 'features' because they were asked by the customer?

 

I am the US government. I'm thinking of using MS-Widget, but it doesn't quite meet $spec for deployment.

I am the US Navy, I want to run Windows for Warships, but I need a couple of changes made to comply with $DOD_spec.

I am major multinational. I'd like integration between $microsoft_app and $other_app for the next version of $microsoft_app.

I am $country and I'm thinking of using OpenOffice & Linux country-wide.

 

Microsoft will make changes to get that business. Those aren't security fixes. In the latter case they'll offer up Ballmer as a sacrifice to the volcano god of your choice.

 

Capita's Vista? How about a support forum that doesn't allow you to post a link to a specific thread?

 

Linux distributions manage to integrate code from thousands of different projects and developers. They handle feature requests, bug and security fixes from hundreds of thousands of end-users. They fix security bugs in a timely manner.

[creese]

I am the US government. I'm thinking of using MS-Widget, but it doesn't quite meet $spec for deployment.

I am the US Navy, I want to run Windows for Warships, but I need a couple of changes made to comply with $DOD_spec.

I am major multinational. I'd like integration between $microsoft_app and $other_app for the next version of $microsoft_app.

I am $country and I'm thinking of using OpenOffice & Linux country-wide.

 

Microsoft will make changes to get that business. Those aren't security fixes. In the latter case they'll offer up Ballmer as a sacrifice to the volcano god of your choice.

 

Capita's Vista? How about a support forum that doesn't allow you to post a link to a specific thread?

 

Linux distributions manage to integrate code from thousands of different projects and developers. They handle feature requests, bug and security fixes from hundreds of thousands of end-users. They fix security bugs in a timely manner.

 

Hmmmmm I wish I had a patent on imagination stretchers.

 

US government - more money

US navy - more money

Capita, different Aspects, extra fields in Pupil Details - same money and a rushed realease date to comply with DoE.

 

Take your thumb off the scales.

[creese]

Couldn't get past the Poll section of Edugeek..... worst site ever. (oops, forgot the I believe).

 

While we are talking about Microsoft, when was the last time anyone got anything meaningful from Microsoft Technet in less than half a day?

[teejay]

Hmmmmm I wish I had a patent on imagination stretchers.

 

US government - more money

US navy - more money

Capita, different Aspects, extra fields in Pupil Details - same money and a rushed realease date to comply with DoE.

 

Take your thumb off the scales.

 

From what I heard the last government was actually providing funding to the major MIS providers to make the changes to meet their requirements, may be wrong though. Plus Capita have a continual revenue stream from schools in their support and maintenance contract, consultancy charges, training etc etc. It's not as if we're asking them to do something for nothing!

[creese]

From what I heard the last government was actually providing funding to the major MIS providers to make the changes to meet their requirements, may be wrong though. Plus Capita have a continual revenue stream from schools in their support and maintenance contract, consultancy charges, training etc etc. It's not as if we're asking them to do something for nothing!

 

So you 'BELIEVE' Capita get paid extra for last minute demands from DoE? You heard this from where?

[teejay]

It came up in a meeting with Capita a couple of years ago, long and distant memory, which is why I said I may be wrong.

[localzuk]

Couldn't get past the Poll section of Edugeek..... worst site ever. (oops, forgot the I believe).

 

While we are talking about Microsoft, when was the last time anyone got anything meaningful from Microsoft Technet in less than half a day?

 

I use technet pretty much all the time. Searching technet returns relevant results very easily. It is a pretty good site actually.

 

So you 'BELIEVE' Capita get paid extra for last minute demands from DoE? You heard this from where?

 

Just like you BELIEVE that MS release new versions of their software without consulting users, just because they want to...

[creese]

It came up in a meeting with Capita a couple of years ago, long and distant memory, which is why I said I may be wrong.

 

Prize for the best rumour of the day.

 

I heard the opposite and I don't believe I'm wrong.

[creese]

I use technet pretty much all the time. Searching technet returns relevant results very easily. It is a pretty good site actually....

Not in my opinion.

 

 

Just like you BELIEVE that MS release new versions of their software without consulting users, just because they want to...

 

Is that what I said? I don't think so.

 

I think you are missing my point in a BIG way. But as this thread is rapidly developing into a biased thread aginst Capita (who I aknowledge is far from perfect). I out!

[localzuk]

Obviously I'm not talking about security. When have microsoft added a number of 'features' because they were asked by the customer? My proof..... Office 2007, Vista, ME. Who asked for them? They just thought they would try something different, they failed, if you ask me. Where is Capita's ME?

 

Yes, you did say that Creese - your line above implies that MS didn't add features due to requests by users...

 

I think you are missing my point in a BIG way. But as this thread is rapidly developing into a biased thread aginst Capita (who I aknowledge is far from perfect). I out!