Open Source Schools' Miles Berry offers a radical response to the ICT funding cuts

[tmcd35]

Well, here are my basic thoughts on this...

 

1, software - I'm very pro FOSS personnally but I've discovered that there are two real issues that are very difficult (not impossible) to over come. The first is platform integration, as I said above sometime we have to invest in certain comercial software combinations to properly support other internal systems (er, SIMS). The second is end user acceptance. I think FOSS is still something of a geek marketplace. Joe Public still thinks in terms of Microsft, Adobe, et al. I tried introducing OpenOffice here and met much resistance, enough to not want to suggest other alternatives such as GiMP or Scribus.

 

2, Web apps - I think there is much milage to be had here. VLE's, Sharepoint, Web based MIS, Google Docs, etc are the general future direction of school ICT. But I see these as supplimenting other local thick client ICT solutions. I think most schools are probably now on their way down this road anyway.

 

3, Replacing computers - Another point that most schools are already quiet adept at. I for one only replace ICT Suite machines and use a policy of reissuing old ICT computers to other areas. I'm also actively working on both Thin Client and Multiseat solutions to kep drive down costs and extend the replacement cycle.

 

4, Pupils devices - I would love to enable this. It's a fantastic idea, especially when coupled with 2) above. The problem, for me, is cost. I can't afford to make the infrastrusture purchases required to make this happen. In the face of ICT cuts coming from above this is likely never to happen here.

 

5, Internet Connection - I'm looking into this but as a rural school something tells me that the LEA provided 100mbps + 10mps backup isn't going to be beaten via our local BT exchange.

 

9, Volunteer Suport - my door is always very, very wide open....apply within

[maniac]

Quite a lot of the points he raises in that article are actually key parts of our new system design.

 

• Opensource software - yes, lots of it and the latest batch of machines won't have MS office on them here as a trial. Of course there's always going to be some licenses needed, but we actually have students chosing to use open office because 'that's what they have at home'
  
• Web based applications - where possible yes!
  
• Keeping older hardware in use longer - definitely - we have 5yr old desktops that are planned to be around for at least another 2 years, and we are investing heavily in terminal server based systems for our new system.
  
• Allowing students own devices - a given for our new system. Any device that can run JAVA apps is basically capable of being used as a terminal on most remote desktop systems, and if you spend some time setting things up properly, the students end device is totally isolated on the network and thus the virus risk is very small.
  

 

There's no doubt about it times are changing, funding is drying up and thus schools approaches to money hungry resources like ICT will have to change as there simply won't be the money to, for example, religiously replace all your end devices every 3 or 4 years etc. In my opinion anyone who believes that in 5 yrs time your average school network will still be following the same model that they do now, or that the cuts won't affect them should stop kidding themselves.

Edited July 20, 2010 by maniac

[joe90bass]

Sigh

 

Aren't there any open source advocates out there who think you can use it to replace or augment parts of an existing system?

 

I actually think that's the way most people think, I know I certainly am now!

 

FOSS people do know that MS/Apple licensing isn't actually very expensive for Education don't they?

 

That was the way I used to think, and to a certain extent still do. I don't see us replacing our desktops anytime soon with Linux, but I suspect over time I may be moving more and more of our backend to Linux, and when we can moving to OpenOffice (SIMS and ECDL being a sticking point here!) But as you say, MS for education isn't expensive, Server 2008R2 and Exchange are almost for nothing, but it's quite an eye opener how quickly the CAL cost mounts up!

[somabc]

Sigh, I think the "Big Society" is going to be a disaster. As each school or indeed public service sets it's own standards it will become more and more of a lottery whether or not your school is actually any good. Some schools will attract donations for new equipment, new buildings, skilled parents will devote their time and resources to improve the school resulting in an excellent education for their children. The poorest children will go to a failing school on a council estate with 30-50% unemployment and no accountants, it professionals to 'help out'. Where is the social mobility?

 

The conservatives are moving toward the Victorian era. If you have money you can go to a good school, either private or in an area of high house prices. If you are lucky a charity or volunteers in your part of the country will provide a good school. If you are unlucky then you will get a very poor education.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2010/07/society-bank-reserves-cameron

Edited July 20, 2010 by somabc

[GrumbleDook]

My main gripe with this was on point 5 ... but that has already been covered enough times.

 

My other gripe is the constant harking on about getting rid of costly apps and going to open source because it is free. In fact Miles gave me the best ever quote on this as to how to explain things. Forget free as in beer (as changing the source code is fine and dandy for some folk but not for a 1 form entry infant school!) but consider it free as in kittens.

 

I loved that and have expanded it a little. They are absolutely lovely and fluffy and you are saving them from being drowned by a nasty person. You then need to feed them (unless you are using them to keep the rodent / bird population down I suppose), perhaps you need to take the to the vet for shots, etc ... and then there is the litter tray. Finally you need to have them 'dealt with' so that you don't propagate their kind!

 

Ok .. a little tongue in cheek, but the reality is that there are costs ... usually in time and training to make a complete move to FOSS. Even then you have to accept for some things it will not deliver.

 

And this is forgetting the single largest thing I will shout at people about the whole idea ... you should not say it is one or the other. You should be having both!!!!!! Transferable skills can only be truly embedded by having multiple apps / systems to use and by helping the kids (and staff) learn how to choose the most appropriate app / system. If you cut corners by going over to just one thing then we truly have lost focus and concentrating too much on the almighty pound!

 

As for free resources and free CPD ... it isn't free. It may be at no cost to you as an individual or school but it is at a cost to someone ... in my case it is at the cost of my LA during the daytime and me and my better half in the evening. I willingly give up time because someone has too ... but even things like teachmeets and the EG conferences cost money to set up and run ... it is just that those costs might not be directly passed on to you.

[tmcd35]

And this is forgetting the single largest thing I will shout at people about the whole idea ... you should not say it is one or the other. You should be having both!!!!!! Transferable skills can only be truly embedded by having multiple apps / systems to use and by helping the kids (and staff) learn how to choose the most appropriate app / system. If you cut corners by going over to just one thing then we truly have lost focus and concentrating too much on the almighty pound!

 

EDIT: Sorry for the length - I seemed to enter ramble mode. Hopefully there is a point or two in their somewhere :-

 

I think there are things FOSS does well - Apache for a start - and no doubt for a lot of schools looking at free/open source alternatives it the right places will solve problems and save money.

 

However, for some reason, the focus point of FOSS vs Commercial almost always seems to boil back down to OpenOffice vs MS Office. (God knows why as there is more to open source than OO.o).

 

Now you can shout as much as you like that we "should be installing both" but I'm going to disagree with you. The driving force behind migrating to FOSS alternative is to save money on licensing. In terms of learning transferable skills, that can be done on either product. That is more to do with teacher attitude and methology of teaching. If you are buying the licenses for MS software anyway - the question comes why upset the apple cart?

 

To my mind paying for MS Office licenses is like a bad nicotine habit you just can't quit. You just keep throwing money at it. In the case of MS Word vs OO.o Writer - they are both Word Processors that seem to me to work equally well. As far as I can tell you don't really need both installed, you don't specifically need MS Word installed (unless you are running SIMS ), and you don't specifically need OO.o Writer installed. What you do need is "A Word Processor" installed.

 

For me it's not about providing 100 programs that all do the same job, or paying out for the big commercial package because "that's what they use in industry" (sic). It about installing the right product that is capable of performaing the task required by the end user. If that is a FOSS product - great, if that is a comercial product - equally great.

 

I tried to initiate a move to OpenOffice here because we really cannot afford the continual license fees, and it's getting tougther with impending cuts. How erver I lost the arguement mostly due to the uptake of SIMS, but also because "thats not what they use in industry" . As a direct result we have to make budget cut else where in or ICT development plan. Good bye new TFT monitors with the next suite upgrade.

 

As it happens, I do now have both products installed. But there is three reasons for this. 1) document compatibility - OO.o can open some MS docs ths MS Office can't (go figure), and because of the switch over trial we do have some native OO.o docs around the system. 2) I want to promote the use of quality FOSS software. Maybe by having it availalble in school some kids will download and use it at home in place of the horrid MS Works (we can live in hopes). and 3) we do need to kick this nicotine habit. We are not going to kick the habit unless the end user gets on board and wants to move to OO.o and they are not going to do that if the software is not installed for them to try out.

 

Now that said, there is nothing stopping me from uninstalling OO.o tomorrow. We are paid up now in MS licenses and have a renewel plan in place for them. Having OO.o on the system is doing nothing in terms of teaching transferable skills. Yes it's there but the teachers involved are just not interested.

 

Now if the relatively small step of moving from MS Office to OO.o is fraught with so meny problems, heaven forbid trying to move the staff over to Ubuntu dekstops or using less well developed FOSS packages like Scribus. If I put Ubuntu on the library PC's because all they need/use in their is a wen browser and word processor It wouldn't last out the morning. The biggest struggle in moving towards using FOSS is end user attitudes and changing them!

[teejay]

We do use a lot of open source/free software which does have a role, but there is no way we could go open source entirely in the school without impacting our T&L. For example, in our Technology department we use a lot of software that just isn't available to run on Linux desktops and there is no viable alternative open source product. Some of this commercial software we have bought, but a lot has been donated by software companies and specialist engineering companies we partner with, along with them providing their time and expertise in many areas. None of this could have been achieved if we went blindly down the open source route.

As for staff producing content and collaborating with other schools, we've tried this with teachers and in virtually all departments it failed miserably and cost the school a fortune in providing cover for teachers to have the time to produce the content. We found it was over 50% cheaper for us to buy in content and also promote one of our ICT Technicians to a web development role to spend time looking after the VLE and other web stuff. We now have a VLE that's used heavily and is very effective.

[GrumbleDook]

@tmcd35 - don't worry about the length ... you've seen the length of some of my posts ... one reason I like twitter, makes me shut up! And yep, some important points in there too.

 

I know what you mean about the MS Office / OO.o debate ... but to me it goes down to things like GIMP v Photoshop, iMovie v Movie Maker (oh ... I like to concentrate on the 'Free' bit of FOSS ... should I have said that?), or Audacity v Garageband ... yes, there are financial constraints at times ... but in some cases it is like using a discus to teach someone techniques for shotput. It can be done, but is it a good idea? Hey ... let's just show videos of the shot put instead ... it is almost as bad as not letting kids do science experiments because of costs ... and yes, I know that happens too. No more tinctures of willow bark, it is just back to titration of copper (II) sulphate.

 

The driving force for any choice of software should never purely be down to money. The primary reason for choice should *always* be down to suitability to the client for delivering their core targets (being non-edu specific here) and in the case of most regulars (and especially in response to Miles) it should be about what will be educationally most beneficial. How else do you show progression? Scratch is fantastic ... but you can then take the kids onto Java ... or start making use of .NET through MSDN tools. GIMP goes on to Photoshop ... Publisher to Scribus (works the other way too).

[dhicks]

Any device that can run JAVA apps is basically capable of being used as a terminal on most remote desktop systems

 

Although don't forget the device/user CALs if you're having them connect to a Windows server. My plan is to split our network in to a number of VLANs - one normal one, one for wireless, and one for thin clients. Any RJ45 wall points that are connected to the "thin client" VLAN can have a device plugged in and PXE boot a Linux distribution that will then connect to a TS server, giving us a precise way of controlling exactly how many device CALs we need. Oddly, we seemingly need to buy one all-in license for any amount of users to be able to connect from home, you just need to control CALs in school.

 

--

David Hicks

[MkII]

I think SIMS is the major stumbling block here. As long as we're tied into MS Windows & Office for staff machines it's very difficult to employ other OS's effectively alongside. Get rid of that hindrance and we're home free.

[tmcd35]

The driving force for any choice of software should never purely be down to money. The primary reason for choice should *always* be down to suitability to the client for delivering their core targets (being non-edu specific here) and in the case of most regulars (and especially in response to Miles) it should be about what will be educationally most beneficial. How else do you show progression? Scratch is fantastic ... but you can then take the kids onto Java ... or start making use of .NET through MSDN tools. GIMP goes on to Photoshop ... Publisher to Scribus (works the other way too).

 

That is all well and good, but I think there are a couple of problems with that.

 

First is what do you do if you have two products that are equally suitable and capable of performing the requirements of the end user? Product a) costs £25 and product b) costs £600. Now the reasons for buying product b) are "it's what we've always used before", "nobody in 'industry' uses product a" or "I know the brand name of product b but not product a". This is the same as buying Hienz Baked Beans becuase I know the Heinz brand name and not because they taste better than Tesco's Vaule Baked Beans.

 

The other problem, is that we both know that money is a very powerful motivater here in education as well as in industry. When I started this job I drew up a development plan. The plan stated that we need around £100k-£120k pa to properly finance our ICT. I was told "no way never". The plan that got accepted was in the £80k-£90k p.a. ball park. Obviously cuts, such as some of the OP's suggestions, had to be made and that was before the change of governement and the new fourtunes of education ICT.

 

Here we had a very real choice between - new MS Office Licenses, using Multiseat Computers or sticking with fat clients but not upgrading the TFT's. I tried to push OO.o has I thought, pre-SIMS, that was the best choice. In light of SIMS the last ICT suite was built using Multiseat Computers.

 

Now we've had some issues with the Multiseats mainly due to 64bit and Windows 7 differences (we are 32bit XP everywhere else). So the teachers view that has problems with the hardware solution, they don't understand the technology or the fact that the problems we are having need solving before we move to Win7 anyway.

 

So our ICT teachers now have MS Office, don't want Multiseat - so traditional fat client it is with no knew monitors. Guess what, they are up in arms because they can't have new monitors as well! Do they really think we have an endless pot of money to buy these things from?

 

As I said above the real problem with FOSS is changing end user attitudes. I still think the usage of FOSS is primarily a geek thing. Dear mum would buy a copy of Photoshop Elements if she wanted an image editing package but wouldn't think of even looking for free product like GiMP. "If they are not being paid to create it, how can it be as good/better than the expensice $brand stuff?"

 

Changing attitudes comes partially with exposure, thus my instance even after loosing the argument that OO.o stays on our network, but also through training. And as others have said it's these training cost that often mean it is better/cheaper sticking with the intially more expensive $branded products.

 

I still don't think that placing a FOSS alternative along side every commercial app will foster acceptance or create transferable skills. The FOSS will just not get used and take up disk space. Transferable skills comes from the way the pupils are taught and that is a whole other fight.

 

We are using Scratch here, it up take has surprised and pleased me. However I once heard a teacher proclaim "do not make any games with this - it is for animations" So no learning about using variables to keep score or collition detection here then....

Edited July 21, 2010 by tmcd35

[localzuk]

The driving force for any choice of software should never purely be down to money. The primary reason for choice should *always* be down to suitability to the client for delivering their core targets (being non-edu specific here) and in the case of most regulars (and especially in response to Miles) it should be about what will be educationally most beneficial. How else do you show progression? Scratch is fantastic ... but you can then take the kids onto Java ... or start making use of .NET through MSDN tools. GIMP goes on to Photoshop ... Publisher to Scribus (works the other way too).

 

I think one of the most important words in your paragraph there is 'should'. I agree, it shouldn't be down to money, but with education finances the way they are, it is. During an age of austerity, where budgets are being slashed to the bone, justifying a new piece of software because it has more educational use than a free product is pretty much impossible.

 

ie. The options in many cases now will be 'free' or 'nothing'.

[dhicks]

I think SIMS is the major stumbling block here. As long as we're tied into MS Windows & Office for staff machines it's very difficult to employ other OS's effectively alongside. Get rid of that hindrance and we're home free.

 

Just run SIMS over Terminal Services, then you can connect to and use it from a Linux desktop. You'll still need to license the workstation for Terminal Services (you'll probably need a Server CAL, too) and MS Office.

 

--

David Hicks

[tmcd35]

Just run SIMS over Terminal Services, then you can connect to and use it from a Linux desktop. You'll still need to license the workstation for Terminal Services (you'll probably need a Server CAL, too) and MS Office.

 

--

David Hicks

 

Alas, you need the TS-CAL, Device CAL and MS Office license, as well as the Terminal Server and it's Windows Licenses. Add all the costs up and the question becomes why do it? You're not saving anything and may as well have put a Windows fat client on their desk to start off with. Now if SIMS integrated with OO.o and run under WINE, well that would be a solution (there you Capita - a challenge for you!)

[localzuk]

Alas, you need the TS-CAL, Device CAL and MS Office license, as well as the Terminal Server and it's Windows Licenses. Add all the costs up and the question becomes why do it? You're not saving anything and may as well have put a Windows fat client on their desk to start off with. Now if SIMS integrated with OO.o and run under WINE, well that would be a solution (there you Capita - a challenge for you!)

 

You do save about £12 per machine as you don't need the desktop windows license. (Using schools agreement prices).

[sted]

i knowsome parts of sime need office but it will work without office as far as im aware if all staff are doing is registers it only needs office for reporting dosent it?

 

as to having both ms an oo on pcs i do but thats because i dont usually have a "blanket" licence for office so if oo is on tehm all then they have access to a decent word processor and if the machine has both it has both

[CyberNerd]

You don't need MSOffice or even windows to use Sims Learning Gateway - it's fine for registers and most basic sims tasks.

See point 2 - make use of web apps where available.

Our basic strategy to see out the Tories is:

 

Invest in wireless and network infrastructure

aim to get everything running in a browser - host some internal, some cloud. ( vle, google mail, docs, calendars, youtube etc)

Run some apps over Citrix

Allow staff students to use their own equipment, phones etc.

???

Profit

 

 

Thus a mixture of OSS and propriety.

[Guest monkeyx]

I think that the decision to use any application in schools should be a joint process between the SLT and the technical team at the school. It is a good idea to promote OSS, as commercial vendors are very proactive in promoting their products. Unless the school technical staff are promoting OSS, who is going to inform the SLT that there is an alternative? Miles post was designed to promote interest from a wide audience of people involved in using IT in schools.

 

Our own school has been utilising Open Source Software (OSS) for at least 4 years and we have added loads of value to our network and facilities as a result. We have added around £20k worth of value a year. We started of with a single squid server integrating with AD and have grown from there. I am preparing a presentation on how our school adds value to teaching and learning and the school finances, that I intend to make public over the summer. The key I am supporting here is that we have added value to teaching and learning. we now spend more money on equipment and less on software, this is a fringe benefit and not the reason we chose OSS. Many of the OSS applications we use have equivalent functionality (many even exceed) and usability to proprietary systems we could have used,

 

The technical elements of integrating OSS projects with our proprietary NOS and applications have been a very rewarding experience from our own technical team perspective. Our depth of knowledge has grown. The benefits of taking moodle and integrating it with AD and our MIS have been hugely rewarding to almost a very area of the school including learners, teachers and parents. When we decided to take responsibility for delivery and supporting OSS applications ourselves, rather than relying on third parties

 

My own personal view is that many staff lack the motivation and backing to try something different. So accepting agreed support packages from third party vendors or Local Authorities is a low risk option, but these low risk options, often provide less freedom and flexibility in to how these packages can be implemented within the teaching environment.

 

Using OSS is not an all or nothing approach. If some people need Windows to run their MIS, then let them. If other areas of the school just need an office application and web access, then why not try Linux. They key is getting them to integrate together which is perfectly feasable, as long as their is a willingess to at least try.

Edited July 21, 2010 by monkeyx
typo

[maark]

What OSS are you using? - I have setup moodle in the past but the Assistant Principal at the time said "if it is free it can't be any good" and would not be persuaded otherwise!

Would like to use more OSS but unsure where to start.

[Guest Guest]

What OSS are you using? - I have setup moodle in the past but the Assistant Principal at the time said "if it is free it can't be any good" and would not be persuaded otherwise!

Would like to use more OSS but unsure where to start.

 

I hope you told him that over half of the interwebz is run on OSS; Apache, mysql, php.... A big one being Facebook.

[Guest monkeyx]

What OSS are you using? - I have setup moodle in the past but the Assistant Principal at the time said "if it is free it can't be any good" and would not be persuaded otherwise!

Would like to use more OSS but unsure where to start.

 

We use a custom themed version moodle Houghton Kepier Learning Platform Moodle is the most widely used learning platform in the world. I agree that it can be an issue with changing the view that if something is free, then what is wrong with it! In relation to moodle we gave an in house presentation on using moodle and the SLT also saw presentations from several leading Learning Plaform vendors.

 

Other software we use Xibo for digital signage, Zenoss is our summer project for monitoring servers et al. Our student email system is Zimbra offers Open Source email server software and shared calendar for Linux and the Mac. and this has a much higher level of functionality then Exchange. ie built in IM etc.

 

Is there any software that needs upgrading or is due for a contract renewal? That is when I start looking for new deals be that OSS or non OSS.

 

Tim

Edited July 21, 2010 by monkeyx
typo king

[putt1ck]

What OSS are you using? - I have setup moodle in the past but the Assistant Principal at the time said "if it is free it can't be any good" and would not be persuaded otherwise!

Would like to use more OSS but unsure where to start.

 

Air is free. Streetlights are in effect free. Software on a per additional copy basis costs nothing to produce.

 

Come to think of it, school is free from the users (pupils) perspective. Presumably said Asst Principal has gone on to great things at the LEA?

 

I do some work with a primary school in Leicester, one of their best ICT tools are a bunch of Ubuntu netbooks; if said Asst Principal is still around, possibly he should pop along and have a look...

[maark]

said AP is a she - I think she is a prinicpal now somewhere in leics. I know Leics community services used moodle to good effect.

There are a lot of trainers you can get in for staff to help them. We have signed contract with its learning for another 3 years so can't use at the moment. Will have a look at a few other OSS ideas - at the moment we are all Microsoft based and it is working very well with sharepoint, exchange etc although the schools agreement is expensive. Would also be a good idea for the govt/LEA to negotiate better deals with microsoft for schools.

[dhicks]

Add all the costs up and the question becomes why do it?

 

For consistancy, or as a migration strategy - all your desktop machines can be Linux-based, you just need to license the ones staff will be using SIMS on for TS / Office. I feel that SIMS works rather better over terminal services than locally - you can get it to authenticate with Active Directory so the user doesn't need to remember a separate password and you can set a separate password-protected screensaver timeout period so after, say, 3 minutes just SIMS switches to screensaver. Handy for teachers who leave SIMS sessions open on classroom machines.

 

--

David Hicks

[Guest TheLibrarian]

OK, we've got as far as GConf replacing Group Policy - how close to Group Policy is it? Is it a good replacement? How granular is the control? Can I lock down the operating system as easily / well as Group Policy does?

 

The next thing to ask (or maybe should have considered this first as authentication happens before Group Policy) what replaces Active Directory? Again how good of a replacement is it?

 

Is there a WSUS equivalent?

 

Would we need anti-virus for the Linux machines?

 

Are there systems like Policy Central / Securus available for Linux? Not necessariy free, because not all software needs to be free.

 

What's the replacement for RDP / Remote Help? VNC I suppose for RDP, but remote help? I know VNC can be used for remote help too, however I do not know if VNC can be made to ask the users permission before sharing the screen.

 

I think we can safely say that MIS systems would run well on a terminal server.

 

How are applications deployed in a centralised manner (GPO style, SMS, etc.)?