putt1ck

Air is free. Streetlights are in effect free. Software on a per additional copy basis costs nothing to produce. Come to think of it, school is free from the users (pupils) perspective. Presumably said Asst Principal has gone on to great things at the LEA? I do some work with a primary school in Leicester, one of their best ICT tools are a bunch of Ubuntu netbooks; if said Asst Principal is still around, possibly he should pop along and have a look...

6Mb/s for 150 clients is more than enough for web apps of even the more complex variety - I'd be wary of pushing big files down such a line as matter of course, but for web apps that shouldn't be a problem. If it seems tight I'd look into the network/WAN and maybe check whatever you're using for filtering.

@TheLibrarian @Butters: Which company I represent? Think of me as the taxpayer. As Google will tell you pretty quick, I used to work in schools in Manchester, I've worked for a solutions provider and now I'm a CIO. But here touting for business, not in the least; I'm fairly sure that you ain't buying what our company sells. Although if you are in the market for an archaeological investigation, some historic environment consultancy or are struggling with a geospatial challenge (particularly in the web arena) I can say that we are undoubtedly among the best in that business and can provide you with the telephone number of your local office

How do you know any IT person is any good? Same process. In my case Google will provide the answer. I'm comfortable that open source is better for schools; although it is not the same as the mainstream UK schools solution and some rethinking from first principles might be needed. It is better because it can do the job, is more sustainable and cheaper. In absolute terms it will be better after a little collaboration (damned word keeps coming up...). There isn't a one solution fits all, and taking into account non technical problems such as staff interest needs to be accounted for. If I took things personally I'd stay off the Internet Sure you can't just take someone's word for it, schools assess all volunteers to some degree. In particular it is difficult to assess someone when you don't have someone with equivalent skills to assess them; this is a common problem in IT recruitment, particularly when recruiting specialists (web developers, network engineers, security people, etc.). There is a degree to which you have to look them in the eye and decide to trust they know what they are talking about.

@jamesb There are that many technical staff in schools who are not trying the emerging technologies? And they call themselves geeks? The term should be better protected... On the jobs front: a quick survey gets me no suggestion that equally skilled closed source/open source techs are getting paid different amounts, so either people are leaving and the pay rates are going up, or they're not. Schools tend to take the less experienced and then those driven by money/career tend to move on once they have up-skilled; some stay. Me I moved because of money/career/chance to live in the country (damn Man Utd footballers made living in the country in commuting distance of South Manchester too damn expensive...). Some stay. Some have chosen to take their experience into schools as a form of payback or as part of a winding down to retirement plan. Only in the transition, and with collaboration (word of the day!) those can be minimised. What? You mean I should give my time up to help but those I'm aiming to help can't be expected to give up some of their time? I could probably schedule some day time for schools that were particularly local (North Oxfordshire, around Oxford) and would be willing commit days of my holiday to a group of schools who wanted to pursue this seriously. Sure, for the pioneers in a given area; the rest in that area could reproduce far more easily by drawing on the experienced pool from the pioneer. That damned collaboration word again

@TheLibrarian: Sure, many people made a bad choice there. SMART and the US clone both have drivers, SMART's entire suite is available cross-platform. But I guarantee you, one call from a local authority, let alone a well-briefed ministerial aide and a driver will turn up really, really fast. It would take a simple regulatory change and some programming on behalf of the providers before they were universal, but sure not a immediate fix. This is a long term thing, not a tomorrow thing. Well, one step at at time, but the exam boards are easy as they are regulated. Let's deal with first... Why thank you, I try

@jamesfed: I hear those arguments 10 years ago, they were weak then, they are weaker now. Yes, Miles has supported people in school, while also being a deputy; more relevant to what follows, yes I have, primary and secondary, and continue to provide pro bono advice to my sister-in-law's primary in Leicestershire. Well, I work for a business that employs 400 people. We use OpenOffice. We also increasingly use GIMP/Scribus/Inkscape. And FreeMind/GanttProject/Digikam/K3B/... More importantly. pupils at school today will not be using that software when they get to the workplace. None of what you have in your school, none of what I have deployed here. At least not in a recognisable form. A Year 7 pupil the school does well by has 10 years before they go into the workplace, the Year 11 another 5. The Year 11 pupil that is going straight into the workplace (a) probably isn't going to be using MS Office or Adobe Photoshop and (b) sure wasn't listening in the lessons when they were shown such tools. So is Google Apps and it's better. And older. Why didn't you ever start using that? Come to think of it, we were doing all that stuff for schools for free and more sustainably the best part of 10 years ago. Excellent, they already use open source tools. Although Drupal and Joomla will provide more functionality than WordPress, and I'm second-guessing Miles here, but I'd imagine Drupal was suggested for its integration with all manner of lovely (free) add-ons. Sure, but when they can't run your big resource hog over-featured apps any more, I'm guessing you aren't considering your future strategy? Well, (a) that's an issue or not anyway for anything the child brings into school. In the case of the "use your own if you have it" policy I'd cut a deal with someone like Endsleigh to offer cheap laptop (feature phone, tablet) insurance and advise parents to take it up. Digital security is easy if you design your network sensibly. Me too, although I seem to recall many LAs being resistant to the idea. 100% relevant to a national curriculum about to be kicked into touch? We use to create resources and share them with other schools; pay once benefit everywhere. NWGfL style. This new-old collaboration thing again. Hmm. Possibly you should talk to some people over here in the other sectors, where training budgets are now measured in single digits or less. Your development, in my team and everywhere else sensible, ain't about CPD, a formal backwards step in learning, but about pd; where I or your line manager see you as ready to take on a task supported by those more experienced in carrying out such that you learn in a way that is useful and applied. Not to blow my own vuvuzella, but I'm pretty good. Little Jonny's parents might be IT consultants specialising in web development. Setting up an Apache box with Drupal and Joomla might be something they do every day (and in which case won't take then more than 30 minutes). Edu Geek? No, Edu Geek is for specialist support staff working across the primary and secondary education sectors. Technical expertise and creativity needs to be shared via local partnerships, collaboration with those close enough you can go help them make the same steps, close enough that as they get into this new-old collaboration thing you create a pool of expertise in use that becomes a virtuous circle. Also put tips on Edu Geek, add pages on the Schoolforge-UK wiki and elsewhere. And get teaching staff doing the same. Collaboration...

But why change the habit of a lifetime. No, going "open source first" (plenty of room for pragmatism here) isn't going to be easy. No, in the immediate future on a school by school basis it isn't going to save money. Yes, in the longer term (how we should be thinking) going open source will save money for everyone involved. How to achieve some of Mile's suggestions? Collaborate? It's the new way. Use volunteers? But they are hard to find? Right here, right now: any schools in Oxfordshire (maybe neighbouring counties around northern Oxfordshire) want to do this, I'll pay my CRB and provide expertise for free, both strategic to SMT and governors and technical. And yes, it can be done, and with the right school it won't even be that long before you see results.

But this thread and others seems to indicate that no one has been allowed (and there is no right of appeal) to opt out of the BSF; this is regardless of how well they have managed ICT in the past, regardless of whether solutions they are currently using are available under the local BSF managed service; or where theoretically available it is demonstrable the provider has little or no skills supporting solutions. I've read the decision for Villiers; while the points made are no doubt valid, I am certain I could raise similar level criticisms for most BSF solutions. After all, this is all in my professional area, and one person's solution/strategy is easily criticised from a different perspective. Where's the choice? What opportunities are there for schools to innovate with ICT inside a BSF deal? If no one can get an Alternative Procurement Business Case through, is it because the BSF system assumes one size fits all is better by default? (yes, I know it's a little OT; happy to be redirected to a new thread if more suitable) Cheers Chris

My summary: Appalling nonsense. Many reasons why My authority: IT Management for a group of schools including primary, secondary (inc. Beacon/Leading Edge school) and CLC, including provision of consultancy services to other schools and the LEA. Follow on experience in commercial sector providing ICT consultancy and project management in education. Now I am a CIO outside of the education sector, doing what all responsible and competent CIOs are doing: looking at how to reduce TCO while improving services, all with a long term outlook. A key aspect of reducing TCO is eliminating lock-in, while maximising flexiblity; a natural conclusion is to move away from proprietary, non-standards compliant solutions. If you want me to talk to your headteacher, let me know and I'll try and make it happen. You might also want to engage with local Conservative politicians as the shadow Chancellor has noted the savings available to the public sector by the use of open source. Regards Chris