[windows software] CALS - Device or User?

[soveryapt]

Hi there

 

Right, following my thread on the 2008 vs 2008R2 I'm looking to get the 2008R2 now, which isn't too bad, but obviously need to look at getting the right number of CALs in place, but I always forget the difference between User and Device CALs and which I would need in my setting.

 

So, background:

 

Current Setup:

 

2 x Server 2003R2 Machines

75 x Windows XP Workstations/Laptops etc

5 x Laser Printers

1 x MFP

 

180 x Users

 

So, my question is, which CAL is the best to get? I think we have 80 x User CALS at the moment to cover the machines, but looking at this, are user CALs something that are given out upon a user logging in and therefore if they log back out the CAL is reavailable therefore I only need a user CAL per device that I have on the network?

 

OR

 

Do I need to get device CALS to cover each piece of equipment connecting to the server and by doing so the users would be covered by using the devices.

 

Many thanks

[Soulfish]

User CALS are tied to a named user. You'd need to license every machine with a device CAL (which is tied to that device) to allow your number of users to use them.

[soveryapt]

User CALS are tied to a named user. You'd need to license every machine with a device CAL (which is tied to that device) to allow your number of users to use them.

 

So, basically, I get 75 Device CALs? Do I then need to get Device CALs for the printers too?

 

Cheers

[ajs]

So, basically, I get 75 Device CALs? Do I then need to get Device CALs for the printers too?

 

Cheers

 

This was brought up in another thread that I'm currently unable to locate (cause I'm a bit lazy and haven't searched very hard - will update later if I find it) but my opinion and the opinion of the MS partners that I dealt with for licensing was that printers do not require CALs because they are not actually computing clients/devices.

 

Erig Ligman, who is a Microsoft Global Partner Experience Lead (whatever one of those is), covers this on his 30in30 website - http://www.the30in30.com/ (Question 3)

Edited July 12, 2010 by ajs

[Robbocop]

Quite right guys. CALs are for computing devices which need to access the server. If you have more users than devices (and you do) then it's cheaper to get Device CALS. If you were a small business where every member of staff has a laptop and a smartphone, you'd have more devices than users, so it's cheaper for a company like that to get User CALs instead. You don't need them for "slave" devices like printers, but you do need them for each computer or mobile device you want to hook in.

[soveryapt]

Cheers All. That makes a lot more sense now. I thought it probably was the case you basically buy for that you have least of (100 User 25 Devices get Device CALS 100 Devices 25 Users get User CALS) but you know when you're just not quite sure.

 

Ok, so the linking in thing. Our MFP has an FTP ability to drag from areas on the server, so that would probably need a CAL (to be honest, at £3.60 a pop from our County guys, I tend to buy a few extra just in case for random things).

[sparkeh]

Perhaps read the official MS guidance on CALs to clear up any misconceptions roaming around the thread.

 

On printers, if your printer is accessing the server software in any way then yes it needs a CAL. (DHCP anyone?).

[powdarrmonkey]

Conventional wisdom is that DHCP does require a CAL, but as usual: don't rely on EduHearsay, ask a reseller (preferably one you trust).

[DMcCoy]

Perhaps read the official MS guidance on CALs to clear up any misconceptions roaming around the thread.

 

On printers, if your printer is accessing the server software in any way then yes it needs a CAL. (DHCP anyone?).

 

The issue with this is the license term is just for a "device" using things like DHCP, where Microsoft *may* be inferring with their guidance that printers don't need a CAL is because the device isn't as such used by a user to access the server in anyway.

 

My printers are authenticated via MAC to an AD user (for RADIUS/VLAN) so they are a bit more of a grey area!

[ajs]

My printers are authenticated via MAC to an AD user (for RADIUS/VLAN) so they are a bit more of a grey area!

 

As powdarrmonkey said, the best thing to do really is to ask whoever you get your licenses from. If they say you don't need CALs then get them to send something official through and store it, just in case someone else disagrees.

 

As a last resort, you could always ring MS themselves and ask. I did this once to clear up confusion about personally-owned laptops accessing the Internet through ISA 2004 and whether or not we need a CAL for them. Guy on the phone was very helpful and emailed me after the conversation just so I had a written record of what he said.

[soveryapt]

Ooo .. another quicky ..

 

CALs .. do I need to buy the same number of CALs for Each Server? So, having 2 servers, say I needed 50 CALs, does this mean I would actually need to buy 100 CALS to allow proper access?

 

Man, why can't there be a simple CALs thing on the MS site! lol ..

[ajs]

Ooo .. another quicky ..

 

CALs .. do I need to buy the same number of CALs for Each Server? So, having 2 servers, say I needed 50 CALs, does this mean I would actually need to buy 100 CALS to allow proper access?

 

Man, why can't there be a simple CALs thing on the MS site! lol ..

 

It's the device or the user that needs the CAL so it can basically go "I'm allowed to access Windows servers. Hurrah".

 

Short answer: you only need enough CALs for as many devices/physical users as you have. Doesn't matter how many servers.

[sparkeh]

The issue with this is the license term is just for a "device" using things like DHCP, where Microsoft *may* be inferring with their guidance that printers don't need a CAL is because the device isn't as such used by a user to access the server in anyway.

 

Why does it matter if a user is using it to access the server? The guidance states:

 

Every user or device that accesses or uses the Windows Server 2008 or Windows Server 2008 R2 server software requires the purchase of a Windows Server 2008 Client Access License

 

A printer using DHCP access the server software to get an IP.

Unless of course you have some contradictory MS guidance that says different? (I bet you do )

[apeo]

Ooo .. another quicky ..

 

CALs .. do I need to buy the same number of CALs for Each Server? So, having 2 servers, say I needed 50 CALs, does this mean I would actually need to buy 100 CALS to allow proper access?

 

Man, why can't there be a simple CALs thing on the MS site! lol ..

 

MS Licensing is well confusing (doesnt help that it sometimes changes too) and as it has been stated seek advise from a reseller (get it in writing). We got our advise from Teksys but you go with whom you trust. The thing is its sometimes not best to contact MS as they will give you the generic requirement sometimes and they may not take into account Education Licensing.

[Robbocop]

It's the device or the user that needs the CAL so it can basically go "I'm allowed to access Windows servers. Hurrah".

 

Short answer: you only need enough CALs for as many devices/physical users as you have. Doesn't matter how many servers.

 

Yup! Spot on. If the user or device has a WServer2008 CAL they can access WServer2008 on any server or servers you happen to be running it on. Any other server types do need CALs though. So users (or devices) needing access to TS would need both a WServer CAL and a TS CAL. Similarly for Exchange, Sharepoint and all the other Server types.

[soveryapt]

Yup! Spot on. If the user or device has a WServer2008 CAL they can access WServer2008 on any server or servers you happen to be running it on. Any other server types do need CALs though. So users (or devices) needing access to TS would need both a WServer CAL and a TS CAL. Similarly for Exchange, Sharepoint and all the other Server types.

 

Aye, I realised about the different server roles if you will .. we have our Exchange Licenses sorted already .. Don't run any TS at the moment, but you never know .. might look at doing that for our "Class Logons" .. we'll see though ..

[apeo]

Be aware that you may need to consider the licensing implications of providing external access e.g. a website, extranet etc

[soveryapt]

Be aware that you may need to consider the licensing implications of providing external access e.g. a website, extranet etc

 

Aye, currently, we don't have anything like that in place, but as and when it happens I'll be sure to get the appropriate access licenses ..

[mpe]

User CALS are tied to a named user. You'd need to license every machine with a device CAL (which is tied to that device) to allow your number of users to use them.

And device CALS can end up tied to a named device.

 

Things can get troublesome with terminal server, especially if what you really want is something along the lines of "I want up to X people to be able to connect, but I don't care who they are or where they are connecting from".

[ianh64]

This is quite a pertinent topic for us as we have just rolled out our first MS server in the school to host the office network. But over the summer, we have a new ICT suite coming online and upgrading to a school reporting system that will be rolled out to the teachers as well as the current office staff.

 

Presently we decided on device CALs for the office suite, but the technicalities of licensing, a change in license supplier by Surrey County Council and, the direction of the school reports system shifting to the teachers working from home has recently led me to reassess our licensing options. Infact, it it one of my jobs today.

 

We have available to us, two licensing models.

 

1. Perpetual licenses - Select Agreement

2. A subscription based license - Schools ProDesktop

 

The perpetual licenses are available as Device CAL, User CAL or, something that I had not realised, a mix of both.

 

We have approx 30 staff and 120 students, all of whom need to be licensed even though the younger pupils do nothing more than doodle on a group PC.

 

So one of our options is to license all the student accessible PC's as device CAL's ie the ICT suite and some classroom PC's, then license all the staff with User CALs. This will bring our licensing requirements down to approx 60 units and allow staff to access the reporting system from home as they are user based CALs.

 

The subscription based license is device based and one subscription is needed per desktop in the school. Servers are licensed separately either as a subscription based model, or a perpetual model. As it is a whole school agreement, its an all or nothing agreement so we cannot mix and match to different PC's - many of our PC's are legacy and will not run Office etc or benefit from software assurance which allows us to upgrade versions of the OS or applications. Even though this is device based, staff get work at home rights, which solves the problem of not being able to license a home PC with a school device CAL - putting it simply, you cannot license a device that you do not own, ie a home PC.

 

Something I had not realised until reading this thread was that printers counted as device CALs. We have a networked photocopier with the server acting as print server. Thankfully we ordered a few spare CALs for the office so are covered until we need to make the decision about rolling out the rest of school.

 

But does anyone know if a printer needs a device CAL if it is local to a PC but shared and deployed via group policy?

[soveryapt]

But does anyone know if a printer needs a device CAL if it is local to a PC but shared and deployed via group policy?

 

Sounds like you have a fun time on your hands there. Having now read some more on the whole issue, I would say that if the printer is not using any of the microsoft provided software (so it's not using DHCP to get an address, it's not accessing the DNS server or anything along those lines) then it should not need a Device CAL, however, if it is to be accessing the software on the machine such as DHCP / DNS resolves / etc, then you would need a device CAL for it to be technically legitimate.

 

My best advice though (as a few people have already said) is to give your reseller a call and see what they say about it.