notlob Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) You still have to complete FOI's though. I did. I could have spoken to the company I suspect was involved and resolved the issue in a matter of minutes. Instead I had to go through formal channels, wasting my time and that of the three people who forwarded the message before it reached me along with the FoI team at the Council. Multiply that by the number of people who might have received and responded the "survey" and that's a lot of time wasted. Then factor in the people who might get in trouble for not responding. I'm not questionning the validity of the Freedom of Information Act. What I will question are the scruples of companies who employ these tactics. If anyone reading this post works for such a company then people might dodge your sales calls, send your marketing emails to the junk mail folder and bin your mailshots. Get over it, that's what happens sometimes, but spare us all from the official nature of a FoI request. Rant over, time for lunch :-) Edited June 28, 2010 by timg 1
jhothersall Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 I've had the same email, didn't reply at the time. Won't be replying now
localzuk Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 I've had the same email, didn't reply at the time. Won't be replying now Why not? Why won't you be following the law?
witch Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 It isn't illegal to use the FOI to find out info then used for marketing, AFAIC - you can hold back 'commercially sensitive' info but that is all. Not really any different from other marketing ploys. As for not completing the FOI - if you really don't want to then send it up the line otherwise the law-breaking buck will stop with you. This 'Tom Elliott' thing is so big that I think they might well pass on details of organisations who refused the request.
notlob Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 I agree with witch on this, it isn't worth the risk of being the one who ignored the request. As well as any personal impact I wouldn't want it to damage the reputation of my school if any kind of public fuss was made. From my (first) experience of dealing with a FOI request I'd say it really is worth running it by whoever at your Council can help.
BatchFile Posted June 28, 2010 Author Posted June 28, 2010 Received an identical email from the same sender. Shortly after acknowledging the request I started to receive marketing emails and phone calls from an IT company. Too much of a coincidence and an abuse of our FoI obligations as far as I'm concerned. On a positive note our Council's FoI team was extremely helpful and I would recommend getting help to anyone who finds themselves subjected to similar trawling activities. Would you like to name and shame the company you suspect? PM it to me if you like if you'd rather not post it here - I'll just add it to the blacklist at reception (or drop a DPA request on them...)
elsiegee40 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Would you like to name and shame the company you suspect? PM it to me if you like if you'd rather not post it here - I'll just add it to the blacklist at reception (or drop a DPA request on them...) PM sent
BatchFile Posted June 28, 2010 Author Posted June 28, 2010 (edited) It isn't illegal to use the FOI to find out info then used for marketing, AFAIC - you can hold back 'commercially sensitive' info but that is all. Not really any different from other marketing ploys. However neither is it illegal to blacklist cold calling suppliers who use information gathered in this way:D - you can generally buy from whoever you like (possibly with the caveat that you have enough quotes etc. to show that the supplier that you used for larger purchases was suitable) As for not completing the FOI - if you really don't want to then send it up the line otherwise the law-breaking buck will stop with you. This 'Tom Elliott' thing is so big that I think they might well pass on details of organisations who refused the request. That I agree with 100% - it's your school that's being FOI'd not you - it's not worth risking your career over Edited June 28, 2010 by BatchFile added smilie for tone - looked a bit snotty which isn't what I intended
witch Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 However neither is it illegal to blacklist cold calling suppliers who use information gathered in this way:D - you can generally buy from whoever you like (possibly with the caveat that you have enough quotes etc. to show that the supplier that you used for larger purchases was suitable) Absolutely - I agree with this 100%. Just that you can't NOT fill in a FOI to avoid sales calls etc
notlob Posted July 1, 2010 Posted July 1, 2010 Would you like to name and shame the company you suspect? PM it to me if you like if you'd rather not post it here - I'll just add it to the blacklist at reception (or drop a DPA request on them...) I _was_ reluctant to provide this information based on an unsubstantiated suspicion. This turned out to be the right thing to do as I would have been wrong (unless information is being passed on to other more local companies). However I have now received a return receipt which seems to reveal the true destination of emails to "Tom Eliott". Here is the useful information... Return Receipt Your document: Freedom of Information Request was received by: SPECIALIST COMPUTER CENTRES PLC is a company registered in England and Wales with Company No. 01428210. Registered office: James House, Warwick Road, BIRMINGHAM. B11 2LE VAT Registration Number is GB 313 6516 80 I don't think I'm doing anything wrong by posting this publicly available company information. Whether this is a widespread tactic within the company or the actions of an individual employee I'll leave you to decide. Needless to say I won't be dealing with this company if they ever call or write. 2
BrotherSidious Posted July 1, 2010 Posted July 1, 2010 (edited) Apologies SCC didn't change to IT247 they are a brand (see post below) However, this wasn't who phoned was it? Edited July 1, 2010 by BrotherSidious
localzuk Posted July 1, 2010 Posted July 1, 2010 SCC changed to IT247, this wasn't who ohoned was it? SCC didn't change to IT247 - that is simply one of their brands from what I can tell. United Kingdom | SCC
BatchFile Posted July 1, 2010 Author Posted July 1, 2010 Well, if it is them, judging by the info on here your company: SPECIALIST COMPUTER CENTRES PLC: company details - from workSMART.org.uk with my inexpert eye, it could be a desperate act to try to prevent them from going under - looking at the "profit" graph inparticular
BrotherSidious Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) Inspired by notlob I did the same and got a read receipt from the same place. SCC won't be getting any more orders from me and I am tempted to phone this indivudal up just to confirm they received my information and that it was satisfactory and that they wont be using it for commercial purposes as per my disclaimer in my response. Edited July 7, 2010 by BrotherSidious
plexer Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Maybe Tom Elliot would like to email a retraction to any current foia requests then? if it is indeed IT247 I would never entertain buying anythign from them now. Ben 1
BatchFile Posted July 7, 2010 Author Posted July 7, 2010 Maybe Tom Elliot would like to email a retraction to any current foia requests then? if it is indeed IT247 I would never entertain buying anythign from them now. Ben Me either - I must admit I'm considering dropping a DPA request on them to find out for sure How to blow your company's reputation in one easy lesson!
BrotherSidious Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 I sent an email to my Account Manager as follows (I also enclosed the Tom Elliot email and my read receipt). I am awaiting a response as my manager is currently on holiday: Due to a recent incident we are currently suspending all dealings with SCC and IT247. The reason for this is that we received a Freedom Of Information (FOI) Act request from one Tom Elliot and when replying to this we subsequently received a Read Receipt indicating that it had been received at SCC. We are concerned as to why SCC are requesting information in such a manner (FOI Request) when they could have simply dropped us a customer survey. As you may be aware we are legally obliged to answer a FOI request and have had to spend time and effort seeking guidance on this matter before replying. A number of other school’s have also reported that they too have received similar requests from Tom Elliot. Until we receive a satisfactory explanation for these events we shall no longer be placing orders with SCC or IT247. When replying to the initial FOI request I specifically included the following in the reply: "You are free to use any information supplied for your own use, including for non-commercial research purposes. The information may also be used for the purposes of news reporting. However, any other type of re-use, for example, by publishing the information, using it for marketing purposes or issuing copies to the public will require the permission of the copyright owner." 1
plexer Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 Me either - I must admit I'm considering dropping a DPA request on them to find out for sure How to blow your company's reputation in one easy lesson! Unfortunately you can't do that as it only applies to public bodies, i.e schools, governement etc... not private companies. Ben
BrotherSidious Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) This link Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details confirms they are on the Data Protection Register. Purpose 2 indicates that they may hold information about me personally (as a client). It is my understanding that as an individual I can submit a DPA request to them (but not an FOI request as that does not apply to non-public bodies). Quote from the Information Commissioners Office website: "Q: How do I know whether the Data Protection Act applies to my business/organisation? The Act will usually apply unless you are an individual holding personal information for your own domestic use, eg an address book. " Edited July 8, 2010 by BrotherSidious
localzuk Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 Unfortunately you can't do that as it only applies to public bodies, i.e schools, governement etc... not private companies. Ben A DPA request applies to all organisations which hold personal data. So, if this company holds your personal data, you can request a copy of it all under the DPA - for the fee of £10.
srochford Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 If you sent your FoI info to them anonymously then it's likely they hold no personal info about you but you're obviously entitled to ask for the info they do hold. I'm sure we all know why companies are using FoI like this - @BrotherSidious says they could just have sent a customer survey. Well, of course they could (and perhaps they did) but most such things end up in the bin. If you're trying to keep your business successful then you need to use every available method to find possible openings. I'm sure the FoI Act wasn't passed solely for the purpose of helping businesses during a recession but I see no reason why it shouldn't be used like that. I know some people get incredibly worked up about people phoning them trying to sell stuff and I've never understood why - it really shouldn't be a big deal (but I suppose some people just like having something to get upset about - witness all the ranty people on radio phone-ins and TV programmes or look at the Daily Mail etc for ample evidence of that)
Crispin Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 My problem is that I simply don't have the time to answer hundreds of sales calls! It's not just an inconvenience it's a waste of my time, and usually, time I don't have. I'm not sure how many sales calls you get but after we reach the first 5-10 by mid morning (especially when they lie and scam to try and get information/money out of us) I think it's perfectly reasonable to get worked up! If you're going to use an FoI request as a means of scouting commercial opportunities then that really is the last straw, why would I want to deal with anyone like that...
localzuk Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 My problem is that I simply don't have the time to answer hundreds of sales calls! It's not just an inconvenience it's a waste of my time, and usually, time I don't have. I'm not sure how many sales calls you get but after we reach the first 5-10 by mid morning (especially when they lie and scam to try and get information/money out of us) I think it's perfectly reasonable to get worked up! If you're going to use an FoI request as a means of scouting commercial opportunities then that really is the last straw, why would I want to deal with anyone like that... Go with my new line 'Sorry we don't do business with cold callers'. Ends calls quickly I find.
srochford Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 Go with my new line 'Sorry we don't do business with cold callers'. Ends calls quickly I find. Agreed. Add the word "Goodbye", put the phone down, job done in about 10 seconds and life moves on!
BrotherSidious Posted July 8, 2010 Posted July 8, 2010 (edited) I have phoned SCC regarding this. The person who would be best placed to deal with my query was on the phone but is going to call me back. I explained about "Tom Elliiot" and the SCC reply. The person I spoke to was extremely concerned as neither Tom Elliot or the person who was named on the read receipt are listed in the company directory and as far as they can tell they do not exist. They are looking in to this urgently and I will update everyone when they return my call. The lady I spoke to did thank me for bringing this to their attention as it is concerning for all of us. Edited July 8, 2010 by BrotherSidious 4
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