ComputerWorld article on a predicted IT spending spree by new academies

[elsiegee40]

Academy Schools: The next big ICT spending spree - Community - ComputerworldUK

 

 

You may not agree! I don't

[srochford]

Not sure that the Academies will be anywhere near £200,000 better off as suggested - sure, they may get this extra money but they will have to start buying things in which they previously got from the LA (payroll is one small thing I can think of; I'm sure there are others)

 

The writer seems to think that schools will slash the salary bill because they're no longer tied to the LA but that they won't use any outsourcing. The two don't really go together - I suspect we'll see much more outsourcing because it's a quick way to cut salary bills (initially, things like facilities management but why not IT - get the right company and you can get superb outsourced IT support)

 

Faster internet connections might be nice but they cost huge amounts of money - has anyone recently looked at commercial prices for a 100Mbit link (and it needs to be symmetrical if you're going to be using it so that the pupils and staff can access resources from outside school). Links like this are not cheap; you're going to need to put a big chunk of money in to make it work and I can see that any school which does become an academy will have every department making a case for increased money.

[spannerman2]

N

The writer seems to think that schools will slash the salary bill because they're no longer tied to the LA but that they won't use any outsourcing. - get the right company and you can get superb outsourced IT support)

 

Faster internet connections might be nice but they cost huge amounts of money - has anyone recently looked at commercial prices for a 100Mbit link (and it needs to be symmetrical if you're going to be using it so that the pupils and staff can access resources from outside school).

 

Hi, my original aricle, so a couple of explanatory bits:

 

1) I think salaries will reduce because they now CAN be reduced and they are lower in the Indep sector for that reason.

 

2) By outsourcing, I apologise; there are indeed superb outsourced support companies... what I should have made clear was I mean the likes of Capita, Serco and RM who are not superb, don't deliver value and don't give a toss about schools because their deal is with the LA

 

3) Acadamies will be better off and I think many will invest in ultra-fast broadband but only time will prove me right or wrong

 

What I am struggling with is how anyone can be disagreeing with me

Edited May 31, 2010 by ChrisH

[srochford]

What I am struggling with is how anyone can be disagreeing with me

 

Because you're wrong :-)

 

Some independent schools may pay lower salaries than the state sector but others pay much, much higher salaries because they want to attract the best staff. The first batch of academies are supposed to be "outstanding" schools and they're also likely to want to get good staff and retain them - you don't do that by offering less money than the school down the road.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see academies paying higher salaries to teaching staff and key support staff but I think it's too early to say for sure.

Edited May 31, 2010 by ChrisH

[GrumbleDook]

Agreeing with Steve here ... a school moving to Academy status is not suddenly going to pay less on salaries. It may be that they take on additional staff at a 'low' level, or that any extra services they run they contract them in rather than a full managed service, but Academies which are formerly high performing schools tend to know you get what you pay for ... so you either pay in-house staff well ... or you pay someone from outside a fair bit to do it instead.

 

Independent schools vary ... but they pretty much mirror state education. The good ones can frequently be found paying reasonable money for good staff. To be honest, the fact that a school is tied in with the LA is only really important when you get a school which is trying to keep salaries down. They will use the LA as an excuse to stop progression if they are that way inclined ... a good school which respects and treats support staff very well will usually find a way around any LA generated issues.

[PiqueABoo]

There was a proper study/survey in 2008 (can't find it now) which IIRC said the *average* male teacher get 10% more salary in Independent sector, average female teacher gets 10% less. Both of course tend to get nicer working conditions, smaller classes, less troublesome kids and so on.

 

The bit that's yet to be tested is how popular it might be e.g. Gove's claim to be 'freeing' schools is a cloak for more control from the centre.

[torledo]

god help us if these new academies do end up having thousands to spend on shiny IT kit.

 

it'd be the like the 'prudence' brown era all over again, as other areas of spend get squeezed thousands get spent on yet more IT 'stuff' no-one is entirely sure what they'll do with. But then they have to spend the money by [you know the drill by now]......definitely getting a sense of de ja vu.

 

obviously steve does make a point about schools that can't take advantage of subsidised services having a good portion of this extra money being eaten up going purchasing services on an independent basis.

[DarrenC]

Something which I saw in an article referred to performance related pay at academies.

 

The teachers receive a bonus relating to improvements with their students results, wondered what peoples thoughts are on this?

[spannerman2]

Because you're wrong :-)

 

Some independent schools may pay lower salaries than the state sector but others pay much, much higher salaries because they want to attract the best staff. alaries to teaching staff and key support staff but I think it's too early to say for sure.

 

some, a few, a very few, of the best Indep, did pay more (I was one of them) but that is long gone. Sure Dulwich, KCS Wimbledon, St Pauls, Westminster, Eton still pay more but that's 5 schools...there may be thousnads of Acadamies.

 

The days of attracting good staff are long gone. GCSE and AS are too easy to need such folk and the 2008-2010 salarie sreflect this.

 

Salaries will go down. Money will be freed up to spend on toys. Really

[nicholab]

The savings can come by the formation of academy groups as these enable the centralization IT, finance and contracts. It also enable the school group to have more muscle than a single schools as it has budgets that look like an LEAs. £200,000 a year is sum required to keep a large schools IT going. Edited June 1, 2010 by nicholab

[DarrenC]

The savings can come by the formation of academy groups as these enable the centralization IT, finance and contracts. It also enable the school group to have more muscle than a single schools as it has budgets that look like an LEAs. £200,000 a year is sum required to keep a large schools IT going.

 

Quite right, I deal with Academy groups that have more spending power than an LEA, it can also allows conjoined thinking between schools, however there are many pro's and con's to academies I think ultimately as with everything else in this world I think it depends on who is involved and what is driving their behaviour.

[elsiegee40]

Salaries at the independent where I work (and no it's not one of the big secondaries) have always been very tightly pegged down. The teachers are on National Pay Scales, the rest of us aren't... from what I've seen our pay is comparable with what we'd get elsewhere in education - not a lot!

 

Expenditure has always been very tightly controlled here as we live within our fee income. Unfortunately we don't have big endowments like the Harrows and Etons of this world who were founded in the 15th Century or earlier; we were founded in 1919 and own all our land and buildings with no debt which has fortunately placed us very well to ride out the current recession.

 

Toys are a lovely idea, but we don't get them. Facilities are maintained to be at least as good as the state schools, but the majority of independents never have "flashed the cash" in my experience. Having to pay VAT makes spending on anything expensive.

 

The new academies won't have to pay VAT so they'll be in a better place than the independents. They will have the power to break free from national pay scales, but in the interests of recruitment and retention, I doubt it will make much difference to teachers' salaries. They will have to pay for some things that are now part of the LA package... centralised functions that schools take for granted will have to be paid for.

 

It is unrealistic to assume that schools will be spending freely on toys as you call them. Most will be more concerned in the first instance with getting their buildings fit for purpose and just trying to break even.

[elsiegee40]

This rather old thread is quite good if you want to find out what's different in independent schools: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/educational-jobs/17016-different-independent-school.html

[spannerman2]

Salaries at the independent where I work (and no it's not one of the big secondaries) have always been very tightly pegged down. - not a lot!

 

 

e. Having to pay VAT makes spending on anything expensive.

 

The new academies won't have to pay VAT so they'll be in a better place than the independents. They will have the power to break free from national pay scales, but in the interests of recruitment and retention, I doubt it will make much difference to teachers' salaries. They will have to pay for some things that are now part of the LA package... centralised functions that schools take for granted will have to be paid for.

 

.

 

I'm still plugging away..VAT exemption you are right is another way the Acadamies will be better off than the trad Indeps. They will also simply drop paying for those extra services provided by LA..getting statements support etc will be really really hard you watch.

 

The question is begged, if I am am right, (and am not making headway on this), but if I am right on what will the Academies spend their new money on?

 

Should we geeks be getting excited about new developments or use this as the seed cash for some bluesky stuff...OR..will they just spend it on Shiny Toys as normal? (here's our new tennis court, here's our new computer suite, here's aour performing arts editing suite..you've heard it )

 

J

[DarrenC]

I'm still plugging away..VAT exemption you are right is another way the Acadamies will be better off than the trad Indeps. They will also simply drop paying for those extra services provided by LA..getting statements support etc will be really really hard you watch.

 

The question is begged, if I am am right, (and am not making headway on this), but if I am right on what will the Academies spend their new money on?

 

Should we geeks be getting excited about new developments or use this as the seed cash for some bluesky stuff...OR..will they just spend it on Shiny Toys as normal? (here's our new tennis court, here's our new computer suite, here's aour performing arts editing suite..you've heard it )

 

J

 

It does seem to vary dramatically from Academy to Academy and if they are linked to an Academy group or not.

 

The groups tend to go much more for tried and tested technology, where as the individual Academies seem to be looking at much more bluesky stuff.

 

We are dealing with a number of Academies who are looking at things such as 3D technology, touch screen, digital signage etc... However often they will quickly revert to more traditional products when they realise the costs attached to new technologies.

 

As with schools I do not think you can pin Academies down to a stereotypical spending pattern, there will be some who want to be seen to be leading the technological charge and others who want to stay safe. We work with Academies as we do with schools we try and offer a consultative approach to find out what they are trying to achieve and the best route to get there.

 

I do believe that there will be an increase in ICT spend from Academies but in exactly what form I do not know.

[GrumbleDook]

The other problem with Academy groups is that although it may seem like they have a lot spending power they are often having to tread a fine line on procurement. If it is too large then they have to go out to EU tenders and it gets expensive to do that ... quite often you will see the Academy doing the purchasing / procurement, but QA is done by the group.

 

What is the point in being able to save £30k on purchasing if it costs you £45k to do so?

[elsiegee40]

The question is begged, if I am am right, (and am not making headway on this), but if I am right on what will the Academies spend their new money on?

 

The question is, "What new money?"

 

As far as I'm aware there's no actual new money going to the latest round of Academy Schools. There's a one-off payment of £25k to cover the legal costs of converting and schools can keep what they don't spend of this sum (WOW!). Source: Academies Education - FAQ - Department for Education

 

Services provided by the LA include everything from HR & Payroll to rubbish collection, via SEN and behavioural support... and these will have to be paid for. While schools would presumably be able to buy back these services from the LA, you wonder whether they would become financially viable for the LA to provide should sufficient schools become academies. I think that some services may well become locally unavailable as a result of this.

[torledo]

The question is, "What new money?"

 

As far as I'm aware there's no actual new money going to the latest round of Academy Schools. There's a one-off payment of £25k to cover the legal costs of converting and schools can keep what they don't spend of this sum (WOW!). Source: Academies Education - FAQ - Department for Education

 

 

from the bbc article

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/10159448.stm

 

They will be given extra money, the government says.

 

This would be about 10% or so - money which was previously given to local authorities to provide services shared among local schools.

 

it says they will be given 'extra money'. i suppose the argument is that this isn't 'new money' as it would have previously been used by LA's to provide these shared services.

 

i think that just confirms the point that you and others are making about additional funds being eaten up paying for services that the LA were paid to deliver. I guess it depends how far an academy school can make that 10% go. could be a mixture of buying back some services and making some real savings by having choice on procuring others.....really don't know. how more expensive does it become to buy back services if LA's don't get the level of funds to provide these services for less the more schools become academies.....law of unintended consequences an' all that.

Edited June 1, 2010 by torledo

[spannerman2]

It does seem to vary dramatically from Academy to Academy and if they are linked to an Academy group or not.

 

The groups tend to go much more for tried and tested technology, where as the individual Academies seem to be looking at much more bluesky stuff.

 

I do believe that there will be an increase in ICT spend from Academies but in exactly what form I do not know.

 

..apologies for grasping at a lone supporter of my thesis,

 

that is, there WILL be more spending on ICT in the Academy model ..given that do we geeks just sit back and implement any b*****ks (as before 'gissa a job) or do we get a bit pro-active and use the experience to promote a) what has worked or b ) what we believe will work or do we just sit back and droid away?

[nicholab]

Tried and tested technology is what is require to work before you can build on blue sky it no good having cool stuff if you can't log on and take the register!

[beeswax]

Just came across this in today's Guardian -

 

Paul Luxmoore, Executive headteacher, Dane Court grammar school and King Ethelbert school, Broadstairs, Kent

I'm very excited about this opportunity. As headteacher of two Building Schools for the Future schools, due for completion in 2011, until now, I had no idea how I would pay the bill for the IT support services (totalling more than £300,000 for the two schools), which is mandatory at BSF schools. The financial freedom that comes with academy status could be the answer. I would miss working with my local authority, Kent county council, and the excellent support they provide. But I'd be stupid not to; it's manna from heaven for me, but a tragedy for local authorities.

 

The full article can be found here - Will school headteachers accept the offer to become academies? | Education | The Guardian

Edited June 1, 2010 by beeswax

[torledo]

This will not be a re-run of the grant-maintained gold-rush because there's no new money on the table, just a slice of the dwindling local authority pie; even the disassembling of the DCSF logo is an eerie promise that there's no crock of gold where the rainbow used to stand. I worry that the scrabble for resources in these times of austerity will damage our new-found strength,

 

that sounds like a head who has their head screwed on. i'm certainly not getting any sense of pots of gold....there may be some windfalls but no free lunches for sure. any 'extra' will come as a cost elsewhere.

 

there were one or two comments about paying for services that they do not use....but it will be interesting to see how far the money that won't now be held back will go, once you start looking at pricing for services that may no longer be subsidised....we will see how much leftover there is for spannermans notion of dream ICT spends to become reality. how much is available will be variable and surely reflective of the priorities of the school leadership ?

[torledo]

I do believe that there will be an increase in ICT spend from Academies but in exactly what form I do not know.

 

maybe it just goes on providing a good service and adding to what's already being implemented, rather than blue skies.......the key thing is it doesn't look like there will be a pattern. Will presumably be no dictat that this much spend must be ringfenced for this ICT project or blue skies idea.

[russdev]

The Academies programme is interesting really in one day the government in effect has changed whole focus on what a Academy is. As pointed out you get 25K to cover admin costs and you get 10% back which la keep at moment but you will still spend that 10% as not being part of LA means you do not have access to SEN and ESOL services to name a few. So the question becomes can you save and get some of the services that would be done by LA at cheaper rate elsewhere etc.

 

Russell

[spannerman2]

. So the question becomes can you save and get some of the services that would be done by LA at cheaper rate elsewhere etc.

 

Russell

 

My feeling yet to be borne out is that indeed Russell is right, the whole notion of Academy is changed at a stroke and along with that is my experience that spending on LA sponosred and subsidised services for children's support will fall off a cliff..they will not be able to resist keeping the cash and buying things..shiny things..it's human nature.

 

Jeez I spent too much of my lump sum on something shiny..I knew I would