Casio "Lampless" projectors

[synaesthesia]

One of my primaries is entirely LED based (Casio M130's I believe) and they're bloody marvellous. None of them have missed a beat, instant on, quality is identical now to the day they were fitted, brightness and clarity is excellent and despite having fans and no filters they don't seem to have as much dust ingress as what they replaced (some Epsons, mostly Sanyos *shudder*)

 

For note we've just put in a couple of Epson X11's here though, lovely little units and worth the hype.

[Marc-Engineer]

Hi please dont get me wrong i do like LED projectors and i know there are new ones comming out from other makers, its just i see the broken ones the first ones Casio sent out started with 20 year cover then they halved it and i have seen several burn out and with age they get a colour cast going green tinted they are also noiesy and get very hot some reported catching fire, but so can lamp projectors, but i think some people lose the way a little when adding up the cost they like any other projector suck in the dust and need cleaning, most projectors need little cleaning now (used to be every 1,000 hrs) and a service every 3 years is often enough, now the first models where withdrawn and another model came out much improved but, they are too expencive. Add it up what is the cost of a Casio for say its life and think this will be 10 years max (regardless of what is claimed) so about the same as a modern Epson say X11 epson less than £300 with 5 year cover and replacement lamp (lamps are now only £100 or less) with free lamp unlikly you would buy more than one in ten years as they have a claimed life of 5,000 hrs so total cost for ten years £400 now what is the cost of a Casio for same Ten years? also epson are instant off same as many now so no cooloing as per older projectors. So please show me the benifit of LED?

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

Edited November 13, 2012 by Marc-Engineer

[zag]

Indeed, the Casio's were a game changer.

 

Wouldn't buy anything else.

[Guest Guest]

Hi please dont get me wrong i do like LED projectors and i know there are new ones comming out from other makers, its just i see the broken ones the first ones Casio sent out started with 20 year cover then they halved it and i have seen several burn out and with age they get a colour cast going green tinted they are also noiesy and get very hot some reported catching fire, but so can lamp projectors, but i think some people lose the way a little when adding up the cost they like any other projector suck in the dust and need cleaning, most projectors need little cleaning now (used to be every 1,000 hrs) and a service every 3 years is often enough, now the first models where withdrawn and another model came out much improved but, they are too expencive. Add it up what is the cost of a Casio for say its life and think this will be 10 years max (regardless of what is claimed) so about the same as a modern Epson say X11 epson less than £300 with 5 year cover and replacement lamp (lamps are now only £100 or less) with free lamp unlikly you would buy more than one in ten years as they have a claimed life of 5,000 hrs so total cost for ten years £400 now what is the cost of a Casio for same Ten years? also epson are instant off same as many now so no cooloing as per older projectors. So please show me the benifit of LED?

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

 

£400? You've missed the cost of the service, both time, ensuring this is done out of school term (which for term time only techs may be a problem), service turn around time and potential replacement projector while waiting for the projector to be returned and cost of the service itself, plus the cost in time for replacing the bulb. Last time I checked a projector service was £150+. Therefore Epson x11 = ~£750* over 10 years (Plus what happens in 6 years time when you can't find a replacement bulb?)

 

Casio LED = ~£600 over 10 years.

 

 

To me on paper it's fairly close between the 2 technologies, but when averaged over how ever many dozen projectors you look after and taking into account the time spent auditing their lamp life and trying to predict the number of bulbs you will need in stock each year, my money is on LEDs being the clear winner after 10 years.

 

 

* Sorry miscalculated. I originally put £600 but 2 services in the 10 years = £300, + £100+ bulb, + £300 projector, + time = ~£750

Edited November 13, 2012 by Guest

[localzuk]

£400? You've missed the cost of the service, both time, ensuring this is done out of school term and cost of the service itself, plus the cost in time for replacing the bulb. Last time I checked a projector service was £150+. Therefore Epson x11 = ~£600 over 10 years (Plus what happens in 6 years time when you can't find a replacement bulb?)

 

Casio LED = ~£600 over 10 years.

 

That issue with the cost of bulbs is an important one. They may be £100 now, but history shows us that they don't stay that price for long. They slowly but surely increase price until they hit £250 a bulb like those for the EMP-74 etc...

[Guest Guest]

That issue with the cost of bulbs is an important one. They may be £100 now, but history shows us that they don't stay that price for long. They slowly but surely increase price until they hit £250 a bulb like those for the EMP-74 etc...

 

Very true, part of the reason I rarely replace bulbs. By the time you spend the £100-200+ on the bulb and think about giving it a service you wonder why you are spending so much on a projector which is now out of warranty when a new one is £300.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Guest

[Marc-Engineer]

Actually as i said BOTH projectors will require service as they BOTH suck in dust at the same rate, i have serviced many casios, the cost of service is half what you quote, and history has shown us lamp price has actually come down consistantly over the last ten years, now modern lamps are a fraction of what they would have cost you even 5 years ago for the newer models. I have NEVER had a problem getting lamps for populer projectors yes some obscure Delta and the like but even Sanyo older models and all epson are still available, just checked sanyo prices have dropped from £235 to £120 for their last models.

 

We have NEVER had any increse in any of our lamp prices, they have always been downward.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

Edited November 13, 2012 by Marc-Engineer

[Guest Guest]

Actually as i said BOTH projectors will require service as they BOTH suck in dust at the same rate

 

Fair enough, but we all know LCD and DLP/LED don't need servicing at the same rate. LCDs suffer from mirror burn after a couple of years. So far I am yet to see a LED suffer from the same problems. Obviously YMMV depending on dust levels, filter cleaning routine (who can honestly say every one of their projectors has its filters cleaned every month?)...

 

just checked sanyo prices have dropped from £235 to £120 for their last models.

 

We have NEVER had any increse in any of our lamp prices, they have always been downward.

 

I said after 6 years. What about 9 years, can you still get lamps for them? Looking at a quite common model we have, the BECTA sanyo xe31 which came out 6 years ago, and the lamp price is around £170. So if we say the service is £75 then thats £245. At that price is it worth paying £245 to extend the life of something which could fail when you can buy new for £300?

 

Plus we haven't even came to the issue of lamps becoming useless in their last ~20% of their life.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Guest

[elsiegee40]

Dare I say it that the views of an engineer and those of school techs are bound to differ.

 

The former only spends his time on projectors.

 

The rest of us are grateful to have something that frees us up to do everything else. You cannot underestimate the cost of man hours spent on keeping conventional projectors going!

[SimpleSi]

Just as a bit of info - I recently had a Casio develop spots before its eyes (prob dust in there somewhere)

 

You have to go on a website an register the fault to get a returns number and pay to have it sent back (which cost us 25 pounds via post office!)

 

It (or a replacement - I didn't check) was back a week later all working fine.

 

This is only the 1st one to fail on me (one failed after a week - not counting that one) and I've got about 10 in service

 

regards

Simon

[Tallwood_6]

We've had a couple develop dead pixel spots however Casio have been excellent in sending us out a replacements while the faulty unit is repaired. We've never had to pay to send a unit back they have always arranged pickup and delivery.

[localzuk]

We've had a couple develop dead pixel spots however Casio have been excellent in sending us out a replacements while the faulty unit is repaired. We've never had to pay to send a unit back they have always arranged pickup and delivery.

 

Same here. The replacement arrived, then they collect the broken one, and when you get it back fixed, they collect the temporary replacement.

[Marc-Engineer]

From real-life use, I'd disagree entirely. I've *never* seen a normal projector lamp last 5000 hours. Ever. 2500? Sure. Having to swap lamps is not fun though. Its disruptive and annoying.

 

Have you tried an Epson X11? they are very good on lamp life, and to change the lamp it can be done in situ its a one screw cover takes around 90 seconds.

 

It would be interesting from all the mentions of "no we have had no problems" BUT we have had two replaced , how many have been replaced or looked at out of how many fitted i think its about 1 in 15 fail within 2 years.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

Edited November 15, 2012 by Marc-Engineer

[elsiegee40]

There's a difference between having problems and swapping a projector out for missing pixels and it being repaired without quibble or cost and a substitute being provided in the interim.

 

Anything that doesn't require my regular attention is good in my book... I would never voluntarily go back to cleaning filters (surely the worst job EVER!) and seeing images discolour and fade while having to shrug and tell the member of staff that it's too expensive to get it deep cleaned and even then that might not work.

[Tallwood_6]

Have you tried an Epson X11? they are very good on lamp life, and to change the lamp it can be done in situ its a one screw cover takes around 90 seconds.

 

It would be interesting from all the mentions of "no we have had no problems" BUT we have had two replaced , how many have been replaced or looked at out of how many fitted i think its about 1 in 15 fail within 2 years.

 

Marc

Projector Engineer

 

Failure rate is no worse than the Sanyos, NEC's & Sony Projectors we have. The newer Signature series Casios generally seem more reliable though.

[john]

I've got about 20 Casio's in now (only another 50 to go) and bar one that was DOA they have been faultless and other than a quick dust they are perfect, staff like them and me and my team enjoy them and have had "fun" fitting them all en-mass, (10 full AV systems in 36hrs was very much fun!) I won't be rushing back to the old style at all.

[SchTechGuy]

Why would you invest in a LED projector when you could do away with by using a LED touch screen we recently installed 5 65" genee touch screens. They are far more responsive than whiteboards, displays clearer images and we don't have to worry about closing the blinds.

[localzuk]

Why would you invest in a LED projector when you could do away with by using a LED touch screen we recently installed 5 65" genee touch screens. They are far more responsive than whiteboards, displays clearer images and we don't have to worry about closing the blinds.

 

Cost.

 

Existing whiteboard + pole/cabling etc... + Casio projector = about £800 maximum.

 

New screen = £3.5k, + installation (as they weigh a tonne).

[elsiegee40]

Why would you invest in a LED projector when you could do away with by using a LED touch screen we recently installed 5 65" genee touch screens. They are far more responsive than whiteboards, displays clearer images and we don't have to worry about closing the blinds.

I have to agree that the touch screens are amazing and they are increasingly replacing projector/IWB combinations.

 

However, a new LED projector teamed with an existing interactive white board than a very large touch screen at the moment. Prices are tumbling though

[petetownsend58]

I work with AV and I cannot see the attraction of the Casio stuff. The image is poor compared to even an entry level Epson - dull and lifeles. I get the no lamp thing but do you really expect them to be in situ all that time? All education projectors have a 3 year warranty on the lamp - yet the casio is twice the price so any savings you make are way out there on the back end - thi initial purchase price is high

With the latest interactive flat screens available - projectors will be phased out anyway

[Guest Guest]

Why would you invest in a LED projector when you could do away with by using a LED touch screen we recently installed 5 65" genee touch screens. They are far more responsive than whiteboards, displays clearer images and we don't have to worry about closing the blinds.

 

65" might be too small.

Even if buying new you can get a 95" with short throw projector for £2500 while a 65" tv is getting on for £4k

All your eggs in one basket - boards last "forever", modern tvs do not.

Walls may not be able to take the weight of a tv.

[petetownsend58]

I agree - theymight be - but the way prices are falling larger screens at affordable prices are just around the corner. I amseeing huge take off in the 55 & 65" screens now and we are certainly not talking 4k!

Walls are not an issue really - there are floor supported stands to overcome that issue.

 

I dont think it will happen over night - but it is coming and the screens have a 3 year de-install re-install warranty and SMART are now promoting a new screen from BENQ that is bundled with the SMART software.

 

By the way - there is a new NEC UST that will give 120" image - and also has an interactive option.

 

I think the interactive projectors are great value for a large image but the larger touchscreens are coming!

 

They are great in primary schools where you want a low height - you cant do that with UST units and small kids dont need a big screen!

[pcstru]

I struggle with the price premium of the LED projectors too. Maintenance of existing kit doesn't justify double the price (or more) and I think in 3-5 years the technology evolution/differentiation will make the long life moot (interactivity, connectivity, 3D - etc).

 

My current big projector dilemma is nothing to do with work but what to buy for the "man cave". I'd probably quite like that to last 5 years...

[petetownsend58]

True - the new NEC units are quoting 8000 hours on standard projectors - so it willget better all the time.

Just use your eduction connections for a projector for home mate - the costs of home cinema units in comparrison are quite scary!