Do I virtualize primary schools single server running everything?

[edutech4schools]

I have just taken over a small primary school that has a single dc server running everything including Sims. This server is 4/5 years old and on its last legs. The school have said they can afford a replacement server but only have £1500 / £2000 to spend, which probably means me getting only 1 replacement server and dumping the old one. They also get the council to backup the server every night to an offsite location, but this is only supported for a single machine per school.

 

Is there any point in me virtualizing if I have only 1 server?

What would be my best options given such restrictions?

[cookie_monster]

Well the only real benefit of virtualising this server would be DR as you could easily move the server to another physical box or they have the option of running another VM on the same physical hardware BUT I think you might be adding an unnecessary layer of complexity to the situation when it isn't really necessary. That is unless you see the network expanding any time soon.

[pete]

While everything on the same server instance makes me twitch, the main (production) benefits of virtualisation won't be of use in their setup.

 

Buy something standard, supported, sufficiently future-proof and make sure the backups are usable (can restore from them, the right stuff is being backed up). More ram, a redundant psu or refreshing ups batteries would give more benefit.

[PiqueABoo]

Is there any point in me virtualizing if I have only 1 server?

 

The idea of virtual curriculum + virtual SIMS on one decent Primary server is growing on me. DR isn't the only benefit - if you keep SIMS in a separate VM then a) it's not going to get thoroughly trashed by any dodgy curriculum server side applications, printer drivers or whatever, b) You can, if you wish, give it independent stricter security than might be necessary or desirable the curriculum side of things.

[SimpleSi]

Sorry but aren't cheap servers (HP) about £200-£300? (I know mine was )

You can buy a lot of memory/backup/storage/another server for £1200

 

PS I run it as VM just to make it easy to transfer to another machine in the event of failure (w2k3 vm on top of w2k3 real)

 

(And to be honest - as an IT exercise : )

 

regards

Simon

[ScottStevinson]

My advice to the OP here is to buy the most expensive/expandable server chassis you can get your hands on.

 

3 Years ago, we bought two HP ML350 G5 boxes, each with 1x Xeon Quad Core 1.86GHz Processor, 2GB RAM, Single PSU, 2x 72GB 10k SAS Disks in RAID 1. One of these also had 4x146GB 10k SAS Disks in RAID 5 and an LTO2 tape drive for backups.

 

We also had three other, older, physical servers running various other things. Since then we've expanded them massively and I've been very impressed with the results. I've used VMWare ESXi to migrate our 5 physical servers into virtual machines on top of the two HP servers. The next phase of this is to migrate to 2k8 R2 and split out some services but that's another topic.

 

Both servers now have redundant HP PSUs, one has 11GB RAM, the other 8GB. Both now have 4x146GB RAID 5 Arrays to hold VMs, and there's still plenty of scope to add a second processor, up the RAM to the maximum 32GB per machine, add external SAS disks for additional storage, add fibre NICs, etc, if it was ever needed.

 

My main message here is not to be fooled by the false economy of buying a cheap as chips server. Buy a higher model chassis, but keep the component spec relatively low. A reputable company like HP will continue to supply parts to you for a considerable amount of time. Touch wood, I'm still having no problems sourcing parts for my 2007 models.

 

Any advice/help you need on the set up/config, give me a shout. I'm a Primary NM myself and, having built the lot from scratch, have probably previously hit most of the snags you'll encounter along the way!

 

S

[SimpleSi]

Both servers now have redundant HP PSUs, one has 11GB RAM, the other 8GB. Both now have 4x146GB RAID 5 Arrays to hold VMs, and there's still plenty of scope to add a second processor, up the RAM to the maximum 32GB per machine, add external SAS disks for additional storage, add fibre NICs, etc, if it was ever needed.

 

I sometimes wonder if either I live in the Matrix or other way around!

 

All the above in a primary school????

 

regards

Simon

[ScottStevinson]

I forgot to mention the twin 3kVA APC UPSs which provide the power to those two servers in a redundant configuration!

 

We're running around 100 machines off of that setup - currently in the process of moving it all to Windows 7/2k8 R2. As you will know, teachers have high demands for uptime, reliability and general speed of using things, and thankfully our SMT generally understand the importance of this when it comes to Teaching and Learning. Look at the long term TCO though...the two HP boxes cost a little over £2k each when new and they've got a lot of life left in them yet!

 

If you invest well in your infrastructure (I'm not saying go over the top though), you can be ready to expand whenever it's asked of you. All this new creative curriculum stuff with video cameras is a prime example!!

 

S

[djm968]

Licensing? Running VMs will incur additional costs however must say I like the idea PiqueABoo suggested, keeping SIMS away from the curriculum server makes sense.

[SYNACK]

Licensing wise you are good for one physical and one virtual copy of Server 2008 or above Standard edition (this can be downgraded as long as the purchased product it 2k8+). Endetprise gives one physical and four virtual and datacentre gives you unlimited virtual on a single box.

[Arthur]

Assuming you are currently running 2003/2003 R2, don't forget to get Windows CALs too if you upgrade to 2008 R2 on your new physical or virtual server(s).

[SimpleSi]

(I'm not saying go over the top though),

Over the top? - the top is so far below you I'm surprised you can see it

 

(As opposed to me - where the top is always just over the next rise )

 

If your coming to the conf - I'll show you around one of my schools (1 mile from venue) to show how things should be done

 

e.g single cpu, 1gb ram, 160 gb drive,single psu server (ex-desktop machine) sitting at back of class with a USB drive as backup

 

Please let me know your school name so I can give Mr Gove a ring and tell him where we can save the 1st billion from the educational budget

 

Maybe I should have taken the blue pill

 

regards

 

Simon

[speckytecky]

Sorry but aren't cheap servers (HP) about £200-£300? (I know mine was )

You can buy a lot of memory/backup/storage/another server for £1200

 

PS I run it as VM just to make it easy to transfer to another machine in the event of failure (w2k3 vm on top of w2k3 real)

 

(And to be honest - as an IT exercise : )

 

regards

Simon

 

Any chance of a pointer toward how to Virtualise please SimpleSi - is it a Wicki somewhere?

[dhicks]

Do I virtualize primary schools single server running everything?

 

Yes. Having your Windows servers separate (SIMS, DC, print, apps) will stop them interfering with each other. We run four Windows servers on a single machine licensed for Windows Server Enterprise Edition, around £300 at schools prices. Spend around £200 on a basic Dell / HP server, buy 3 2TB haddrives and 8GB of RAM for it and you should be sorted, and have enough money left over to buy some more harddrives for the old server to turn it in to a Samba-based file server.

 

--

David Hicks

[SimpleSi]

Any chance of a pointer toward how to Virtualise please SimpleSi - is it a Wicki somewhere?

I haven't any docs of my own

I've done mine using VMServer (which used to be free - but looking at their website now - I'm not sure if it still is?)

 

Maybe someone else knows the current situation as to what's free to use?

 

regards

 

Simon

[SYNACK]

If you are virtualising you will want to use a type 1 hypervisor based system that allows the VMs much more direct access to the hardware meaning that they are way faster. There are a few free systems Microsofts Hyper-V server, VMWares ESXi and Xen which can do this. The easiest route though is probably to use the version of Hyper-V included in Server 2008 R2 which gives you a nice GUI based VM server environment making it much closer in learning terms to an bare metal server.

 

If you get Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise it will give you licenses for up to four VMs.

 

 

The virtualisation webcast episodes linked in these shold be helpful:

• Server Virtualisation Episodes
  
• David Davis, Virtualization Blogger
  

Edit: @SimpleSi - VMWare Server is still free to use and download but is a type 2 hypervisor so all the VMs ls go through the VM software then through the host OS then to the hardware which makes it massivly slower than a type 1 solution. You can transfer a VM from Server to ESXi really easily if you want to but you loose the ability to have the base OS on the box if you are currently using it to run something also. Additionally it works much better if your CPU has virtualisation extentions like VT and won't host 64bit OSs without them.

Edited May 14, 2010 by SYNACK

[SimpleSi]

@synack

Ta for info - i'll try that out the next time I buy a real server

 

regards

 

Simon