Projector purchase, how would you play this?

[Ex-MGSTech]

Ok here's the rub

 

We have a project to upgrade our projectors to networked ones. This will (and does) staff to transmit their tablet PC desktops remotely to a room projector via a wireless link to the LAN and Projectors hard wired to the network.

 

This works well even for video as its the desktop being sent not the video stream per say..

 

I have an opportunity to purchase an additional ten units and have sourced pricing from a company with a UK sales office in East Anglia

 

The units are Sanyo XU305 Wireless and Ethernet Projectors

 

Normal price is around £720 ex VAT (£845 Inc VAT) this supplier has offered £700 each if we buy ten units.

 

Now the issue, this has seriously upset our normal AV supplier as Sanyo's UK distribution network can't match the prices. It transpires that this suppliers parent company is based in Germany and is fulfilling orders via a European distribution system.

 

To us this means no UK verifiable warranty on these units, however whilst the supplier is still trading in the UK this seems not to be an issue.

 

The price difference for UK sourced units is an additional £89 per unit, so would you risk it and pay £890 less?

 

Or pay inflated UK prices and only get 9?

 

I also understand that this potentially exposes price fixing within the European market, however as a school this is not my particular concern, however getting the best value for money is!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Steve

[OutToLunch]

Shouldn't the warranty stand regardless if they are EU units? You could always confirm with Sanyo before ordering.

[Ex-MGSTech]

Shouldn't the warranty stand regardless if they are EU units? You could always confirm with Sanyo before ordering.

 

Whilst this is the case for things like laptops, it seems not to be the case for all hardware (HP servers are one example from personal experience as an HP engineer, systems bought in China have no international warranty)

 

I have checked with Sanyo UK are thay have no record of the units serial numbers, this means that they are unable to verify or supply a warranty service on these units.

 

Its fairly common in the IT industry to not allow international warranty on items sourced outside of your country of origin, sounds like trying to justify your own higher prices in one country vis another if you ask me?

Edited February 8, 2010 by Ex-MGSTech
sp

[Haptic]

anything purchased in EMEA (Europe, the Middle East and Africa) should have a warranty valid in the UK

[buzzard]

I'd buy at the cheaper price, in all honesty how often do you invoke the warranty on projectors? The cost saving in my opinion means you could get another one as a spare incase of failure and an invalid warranty Edited February 8, 2010 by buzzard
typo again

[Ex-MGSTech]

anything purchased in EMEA (Europe, the Middle East and Africa) should have a warranty valid in the UK

 

Agreed, but as highlighted above the operative word here is should! in practice it dosen't.

 

UK consumer law complicates things further by actually saying a buyers warranty is with the supplier, not the manufacturer....

[SYNACK]

I would suggest that you go with the cheaper option to get the 10. Your other suppliers should not be getting brassed off with you but rather with Sanyo or even the other supplier. If they are transfering this on to you then it is wrongly. You are simply out for the best value for the school.

 

I would explain it to anyone above you in the school purchasing chain beforehand though and make sure that they are onboard as if the worst did happen then everyone should be prepared. I have no idea how much shipping is to Germany from the UK but if a couple did melt down is it still cheaper to ship them to Germany for warrenty rather than pay the extra in your local market?

[sigmait]

Warranties are like insurance a life saver when something goes wrong my advice pay a little extra now and sit happy knowing its not going to cost an extra £700 when something does go wrong

[Robbocop]

Well, your normal supplier isn't making the price up, that much I can tell you. £700 really isn't viable for projectors purchased through the proper UK channels. The price you've been quoted is fair. The mere fact that you're asking what's best rather than snapping up the £700 ones is great, actually. Does your normal supplier give you good service, to deserve your loyalty? Is the relationship worth keeping, even at a price? Would they be prepared to reduce their margin still further in return for your custom if you asked them to? If you're asking about that relationship, it sounds like it has a value to you.

[neon]

what is delivery from outside of the uk on the 10 projectors? I would stick with what you know to be honest, if something does go wrong you can get it sorted quickly and your suppliers will hopefully see that you are loyal maybe giving as lower price as possible in the future.

[maniac]

Best value for money does not always equal cheapest.

 

Weigh up the other value added benefits of buying from a supplier that you already have strong links with. Sometimes we don't ever bother getting multiple quotes now as we have very strong links with our suppliers, and I know they push the boat out to give us excellent competitive pricing, even if it might not be the absolute rock bottom price, I'm also buying into the service they offer us knowing that if something does go wrong they will sort it out for us with minimal fuss and involvement from me - 1 phonecall and they do the rest.

 

I'd buy the UK models at the slightly higher price and maintain a good working relationship with an existing supplier if it were me.

 

mike.

[Robbocop]

I don't want to rock the boat but as an experiment I asked our AV purchaser to put pressure on the UK distribution people to see what happened and she got them to drop about £20 per unit on the price. It doesn't solve your problem, because nobody is going to get even close to £700 but I'd advise that if you want to deal with your existing supplier, you might encourage them to apply the same pressure. People please don't jump on me and accuse me of trying to poach this, because I'm not. I'm just saying we could do £769, and would for a valued customer, and I can't see why someone else couldn't too.

[Ex-MGSTech]

Thanks, as you surmise the relationship with our existing supplier has a significant value.

 

He did the exercise you mention and came down to £740 per unit. However after discussion we agreed he'd do all the mounting and extra data cabling and we'd buy at the cheaper price.

This was based in a realistic position of him making negligible mark up on each unit.

 

I've also eased the situation by giving him another contract for around £18k so that eased the situation considerably.

 

I have sought and accepted the warranty position with the cheaper supplier. Also as indicated earlier warranty issued in the European EMA are legally valid throughout Europe. In reality it may take a little longer and give the warranty a bigger carbon footprint! If we ever use it!

[Robbocop]

I love it when things work out nicely for everyone! Nice work MGSTech!

[AVShopper]

Sounds like you've worked through this one, but a couple of observations from my experience as a disti in UK and in Europe.

 

The price fixing thing doesn't really apply as B2B channels are not covered by consumer regulations. The price fixing stuff you do hear about is more related to cartels forming between manufacturers and doesn't apply here.

 

Whilst I do appreciate the desire to purchase 10 units instead of 9, the 3 years "On-site" warranty provided by the UK sales channel is quite valuable. From experience, I don't believe all 10 Sanyo units will stay alive for 3 years, and if only one of them goes down permanently, the early gain on price will be lost.

 

Once you've paid the importer they won't be that interested in helping out unless you have regular business with them. Your current AV supplier hopefully has rolling business and you have "leverage" over them if you need support on sorting out early life failures, or applying pressure to the supplier/manufacturer.

 

Finally, trying to progress a "European Warranty" claim for Sanyo products in the UK will be nigh on impossible as Sanyo use a 3rd party repair house - and if your serial number ain't on their list, they can't talk to you.

 

The bottom line is that Sanyo shouldn't really be putting customers into this position. If the units can be supplied at £700, then they shouldn't be forcing the UK channel to charge 10% more.

[AVShopper]

Another quick thought on the XU305's (you may know this already, and I stand to be corrected..) , but the networking function of the 305 comes in two parts - you can network multiple pc's to the projector using the wireless interface, but the LAN interface is only for the PJ-Net interface for control and interrogating the projector status/log etc.

 

Are you routing the projector via a wireless hub, and then on to your network - never tried it, but could be interesting?

[Ex-MGSTech]

Whilst I agree with your comments the following is also true:

 

The UK Consumer rights are between the seller and the buyer, not the buyer and the manufacturer. in law and manufacturer can force you to go through the seller. The issue than comes into play what if the seller has ceased trading?

 

In reality many UK distributors ship their products to Europe for repair anyway; I've just had a Toshiba repaired in Belgium!

 

Having checked out the suppliers pan European operation I'm satisfied that they (hopefully) won't go bust anytime soon!

 

Touch wood, I think I've had one Sanyo warranty claim on the 4 1/2 years I've been here.

 

We've reached an amicable solution which enables be to get best value for the tax payers £ and I believe also secures the operation of the equipment for at least 2-3 years.

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

Steve

[Ex-MGSTech]

Another quick thought on the XU305's (you may know this already, and I stand to be corrected..) , but the networking function of the 305 comes in two parts - you can network multiple pc's to the projector using the wireless interface, but the LAN interface is only for the PJ-Net interface for control and interrogating the projector status/log etc.

 

Are you routing the projector via a wireless hub, and then on to your network - never tried it, but could be interesting?

 

Not quite correct, the XU305 has both Wired and Wireless LAN, it uses a supplied application called Network Capture 5 (sadly not backwards compatible with version 4!) and will stream content (excluding video) to the projector from a single connected client.

 

I have teachers with 60+ Tablet PC's each one can connect in one of two ways

1. Directly with the projector via wireless (however this then prevents access to other resources like the internet etc)

 

2 via wireless to the school network, then through that to a wired projector in infrastructure mode. This allows the user access to other resources and the ability to then display that on a networked projector.(assuming they can select the correct classroom!)

 

Only certain models support content streaming and many of the Ethernet equipped ones only provide management facilities (bulb due, filter clean power on/off etc) The XU305 supports both, as do our older model UX88's. However, to support straeming video in this way would require a projector more than twice the price (PLC WXU700)http://uk.sanyo.com/Extranet/OnlineClaims/Products/ProductView?modelNumber=PLC-WXU700

We have in effect created 8' interactive whiteboards with a wireless desktop interface in the Tablet PC's

Oh and before anyone says, I don't work for Sanyo !

 

Regards

 

Steve

Edited February 25, 2010 by Ex-MGSTech