Public sector employees to get ripped off, again

[RingOfFlame]

The UK is not America. It is also not South Africa. Personally, I'm glad of that. Both the USA and South Africa have a much higher level of violent crime, muggings and murder. Why do you think this is?

 

They are also much larger countries. I would not worry so much though. With the UKs yob culture and anti social behaviour itt wont take to long for it to get worse.

[cookie_monster]

They are also much larger countries. I would not worry so much though. With the UKs yob culture and anti social behaviour itt wont take to long for it to get worse.

 

 

It might take some time.

 

Gun deaths per 100,000 population

 

Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36

England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03

Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02

 

 

 

Gun Facts

 

 

 

Murders (per capita)

 

Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

 

# 61 Saudi Arabia (They must of forgot to include state murder I mean execution in those stats)

 

 

Yob culture is a bit of a pain but it's not on the same scale really.

Edited December 11, 2009 by cookie_monster

[localzuk]

They are also much larger countries. I would not worry so much though. With the UKs yob culture and anti social behaviour itt wont take to long for it to get worse.

 

Size doesn't matter - the issue is crime per capita. Those rates are much higher still, as cookie_monster pointed out above me.

[ahuxham]

Size doesn't matter - the issue is crime per capita. Those rates are much higher still, as cookie_monster pointed out above me.

 

And social support is the sole reason for this then? There are numerous other factors that tie into this.

[cookie_monster]

And social support is the sole reason for this then? There are numerous other factors that tie into this.

 

 

 

It's a very complicated issue. One thing that seems clear when looking at figures is that societies with good social systems in place see less poverty driven crime.

An unfortunate backlash of this which might explain the rise of the U.K yob culture could be too many young unemployed people who have no incentive to find work as they're paid to hang around all day. Then again you could say that its also due to any number of factors, poor facilities or lack of work etc

 

I met quite a few people in New Zealand from South Africa they were all trying to get visas to stay, my neighbour is also South African. From what they've told me crime is very high there to the point where the wealthy have permanent armed guards, they all see poverty as a key driver of these problems.

Edited December 11, 2009 by cookie_monster

[localzuk]

Another country with poor social care, high crime and high poverty - Brazil. And the rich there have to buy armoured cars to protect themselves.

[somabc]

It's a very complicated issue. One thing that seems clear when looking at figures is that societies with good social systems in place see less poverty driven crime.

An unfortunate backlash of this which might explain the rise of the U.K yob culture could be too many young unemployed people who have no incentive to find work as they're paid to hang around all day. Then again you could say that its also due to any number of factors, poor facilities or lack of work etc

 

I met quite a few people in New Zealand from South Africa they were all trying to get visas to stay, my neighbour is also South African. From what they've told me crime is very high there to the point where the wealthy have permanent armed guards, they all see poverty as a key driver of these problems.

 

Ah South Africa, the country that gave us the flame thrower equipped car.

 

Blaster (flamethrower) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cookie_monster]

Ah South Africa, the country that gave us the flame thrower equipped car.

 

Blaster (flamethrower) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Wow!!!

 

 

Already, the Automobile Association of South Africa (AA) was arguing, that the rising rates of carjackings were simply a result of increased use of ignition system immobilizers, mandated by insurance companies in response to increased car theft rates, which made it almost impossible to steal cars, except at gunpoint, with the engine running.

 

 

This makes me think of the whole fingerprint readers to start cars idea. I'd much rather be able to just hand over my keys

[somabc]

Wow!!!

 

 

 

 

 

This makes me think of the whole fingerprint readers to start cars idea. I'd much rather be able to just hand over my keys

 

When they introduce retina scans at ATM's then I will be really worried

[SpuffMonkey]

That's exactly what we have at present, a progressive tax system.

 

Umm - no we don't.

[Midget]

Ah South Africa, the country that gave us the flame thrower equipped car.

 

Blaster (flamethrower) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

And the Mandela Necklace

 

 

Umm - no we don't [have a progressive tax system].

 

oh?

 

if I earn £15k i pay £1,705 in incometax

if I earn £30k i pay £4,705 in incometax

if I earn £60k i pay £13,930 in incometax

if I earn £60k i pay £37,930.00 in incometax

 

 

looks pretty progressive to me

[mossj]

Size doesn't matter

 

Teheheh, thats what she said:getmecoat:

[cookie_monster]

if I earn £60k i pay £37,930.00 in incometax

 

Ouch that's alot.

[torledo]

Ouch that's alot.

 

It's also incorrect i think. The 13930 figure is correct. 37930 in income tax figure probably applies to those earning 120k.

 

Doesn't make the system any less progressive though does it ?

.

Edited December 11, 2009 by torledo

[torledo]

double post.

.

[srochford]

if I earn £15k i pay £1,705 in incometax

if I earn £30k i pay £4,705 in incometax

if I earn £60k i pay £13,930 in incometax

if I earn £60k i pay £37,930.00 in incometax

 

 

looks pretty progressive to me

 

Income tax is reasonably progressive but it's not the only tax and most other taxes are not progressive (because they're not related to ability to pay) - someone on minimum wage pays exactly the same rate of VAT, insurance tax, excise duty etc etc meaning that the total percentage of income paid out as tax can be higher for someone on lower income.

 

People earning more money may be able to employ accountants to "hide" income so they don't pay as much income tax.

[torledo]

Income tax is reasonably progressive but it's not the only tax and most other taxes are not progressive (because they're not related to ability to pay) - someone on minimum wage pays exactly the same rate of VAT, insurance tax, excise duty etc etc meaning that the total percentage of income paid out as tax can be higher for someone on lower income.

 

People earning more money may be able to employ accountants to "hide" income so they don't pay as much income tax.

 

The way such means testing based on ability to pay is currently implemented, it's probably a blessing that it isn't implemented more so in other areas. Our tax system definitely discourages people from getting wage increases at certian levels and progressing, as tax credit related benefits can be lost for instance... If we start going down the route of progressive VAT, excise duty based on income [eh??] then it will probably disincentivise people even more to go out to earn and progress.

 

Your last point is a very valid one, i think govt. have struggled for years to extract a fair or atleast progreesive tax burden out of the whole high earning self-employed/contractor/limited company thing. I'd argue that if your a PAYE employee on a high salary, your going to be paying the full higher rate tax on earnings above the threshold....and with things like company cars, those things will be taxed.

 

It strikes me as the limited company contractors who require the services of accountants to minimse the tax they are required to pay. Rather than the PAYE employees in the private sector on 60k+ who can't avoid the tax burden ? And may not have the gold plated pensions that we tend to associate with some high profile, high paid public sector jobs.

[SpuffMonkey]

Income tax is reasonably progressive but it's not the only tax and most other taxes are not progressive (because they're not related to ability to pay) - someone on minimum wage pays exactly the same rate of VAT, insurance tax, excise duty etc etc meaning that the total percentage of income paid out as tax can be higher for someone on lower income.

 

People earning more money may be able to employ accountants to "hide" income so they don't pay as much income tax.

 

Yes - the indirect taxes mentioned above are very unfair to the lower paid.

 

Progressive income taxation (if there's confusion) is where the percentage rate paid grows steadily as the rate of pay increases - which was the practice until until about 25 years ago - bad for the rich - better for the bulk of everyone else.

 

I'd agree wholeheartedly about the second point - a friend of mine (self employed) reckomed that if you pay any tax at all - you need a new accountant - an understandable attitude, but allowing this sort of thing to happen is just morally and practically wrong in my humble opinion

[broc]

Wealthy people don't remain wealthy by being generous to the less well off.... unless you are very wealthy like Bill Gates

[markwatkins]

With the UKs yob culture and anti social behaviour itt wont take to long for it to get worse.

 

I am a bit sad that there is a perception that we have a yob culture in the UK, I am even more sad that RoF has bought into the way the media portray people/situations.

 

The media prtrayal of USA is none too good it has to be said.