schools agreement - advice

[gibbo_ap]

i am just looking at licences at present and am wondering if the MS Schools Agreement would be worth our while?

 

we have 380 (will be 468 soon) curriculum stations and 13 admin, currently running office 2003 (dont know at present how many are 2007 compatible looking into this at the moment)

 

we use office, have server 2003, exchange, and running cc3 but looking to cc4 soon.

 

i am also looking to upgrade to office 2007 or 2010 soon, my understanding of MSSA is that in will make my life easier regarding licences of ms gubbins anyway.

 

with cc4 i will be looking at Windows 7 on new stations when supported.

what are peoples experences?

 

what are the problems moving from how we are (just purchasing as and when) to moving to the schools agreement

 

does being an RM school complicate this?

[teejay]

I thought cc3/4 covered your licensing? MS SA is really for vanilla networks as you use it to buy all the server and client access licensing for all machines.

[gibbo_ap]

am thinking more office licences

[teejay]

Schools Agreement wouldn't be the right programme to be on as you'll end up paying for stuff you already pay for through your RM agreement! Speak to RM as they have a good deal on licences, other than that speak to a MS edu reseller who will be able to get you the correct number of licenses you need on one of the other academic licence programmes.

[garethEds]

We have just purchased a School Agreement with Work at Home rights for our staff. Best thing we have done - any MS licencing worries are gone.

 

We are licenced for Windows 7, all the CALS are in there. We are also licenced for Office 2007 and will be for Office 2010 when that is released.

 

The staff are chuffed that we invested in them. We have to police the work at home agreement and disks are booked out and back in. A contract is also signed by the member of staff.

 

Quick chance here to say thanks to Dan at WStore for being extremely tolerant whilst I asked a lot of questions and while my line managers wavered over the decision.

[Ric_]

I'm pushing through our new Schools Agreement at the moment... we used to use Select.

 

The biggest advantages are that you can roughly budget an annual licensing cost (which bursars like) and you don't have massive lump sums to pay out when Office needs upgrading or you need new CALs for a piece of server software.

 

The Software Assurance part of a Schools Agreement also means that you will be entitled to use Windows 7 Enterprise (the one that contains all the decent new features and cannot be licensed without Software Asssurance) and, as mentioned above, gets you home use rights for your staff.

 

It is also possible to add on student licensing for Office, etc. which allows them to keep a copy of Office after 'graduating'.

 

The downside, of couse, is that it aint cheap - you would have to be replacing all your software every three years to make it pay for itself... it does make life easier though.

[DMcCoy]

We have just purchased a School Agreement with Work at Home rights for our staff. Best thing we have done - any MS licencing worries are gone.

 

We are licenced for Windows 7, all the CALS are in there. We are also licenced for Office 2007 and will be for Office 2010 when that is released.

 

The staff are chuffed that we invested in them. We have to police the work at home agreement and disks are booked out and back in. A contract is also signed by the member of staff.

 

Quick chance here to say thanks to Dan at WStore for being extremely tolerant whilst I asked a lot of questions and while my line managers wavered over the decision.

 

Better to use the Home Use Programme part as this is a direct agreement between the staff and Microsoft, requires no keys/DVDs and the staff can use it for non work use, which is a restriction of WAH rights.

[spc-rocket]

I'm pushing through our new Schools Agreement at the moment... we used to use Select.

 

The biggest advantages are that you can roughly budget an annual licensing cost (which bursars like) and you don't have massive lump sums to pay out when Office needs upgrading or you need new CALs for a piece of server software.

 

The Software Assurance part of a Schools Agreement also means that you will be entitled to use Windows 7 Enterprise (the one that contains all the decent new features and cannot be licensed without Software Asssurance) and, as mentioned above, gets you home use rights for your staff.

 

It is also possible to add on student licensing for Office, etc. which allows them to keep a copy of Office after 'graduating'.

 

The downside, of couse, is that it aint cheap - you would have to be replacing all your software every three years to make it pay for itself... it does make life easier though.

 

It depends on how the school moves forward when migrating version of office etc. At our place we are on office 2003 license on select agreement. For the last few years we have been buying office 2007 pro licenses (because you can't buy office 2003 licenses) and using the downgrade rights to install office 2003. This does make it a tad easier on the cost side that when we do plan to upgrade to office 2007 we will probably more than half of the office licenses already there and will only need purchses the other to cover the site. It all depends on your scenario and how often you migrate to the version of office. Even if office 2010 comes out that we will not be upgrading to this i.e. too new, compatibility etc. For us it works because the bulk cost (i.e. £9-10K is every 4 years rather than annually which helps.;

 

For the OS license the SA does make it easier but then again how often is this done? We will probably cop a fair amount of cost of upgrading to windows 7 but this will be one-off cost of few years anyways so it still works out cheaper. Again i should re-iterate this is for our school how we manage the licenses, all school's requirements are different and therefore you need to think about how it will fit in which what you want to do in regards to ICT strategy for HW and SW upgrades/migrations etc.

 

Ash.

[teejay]

You can also do a bit of a sneaky with it, if you pay your annual SA fee just before you buy your PC's you don't have to count them until the following years SA count

[Ric_]

For the OS license the SA does make it easier but then again how often is this done? We will probably cop a fair amount of cost of upgrading to windows 7 but this will be one-off cost of few years anyways so it still works out cheaper. Again i should re-iterate this is for our school how we manage the licenses, all school's requirements are different and therefore you need to think about how it will fit in which what you want to do in regards to ICT strategy for HW and SW upgrades/migrations etc.

 

Ash.

 

The sneakyness on Microsoft's part of requiring Software Assurance to get Windows 7 Enterprise means that you will end up with some kind of annual cost (at the very least Select+ which gives you 2 years of SA).

 

With Microsoft now sticking to a better upgrade cycle of approx. 6 years per full server OS upgrade, CAL licensing costs can be a nightmare.

[AngryTechnician]

Schools Agreement wouldn't be the right programme to be on as you'll end up paying for stuff you already pay for through your RM agreement!

 

As a CC3 network manager with a Schools Agreement, I disagree. For a start, you can certainly get a Schools Agreement just for Office if you want, - I got a quote 6 months ago for exactly that from RM, you just have to ask for it to be licensed that way instead of buying outright. I ended up getting a better price elsewhere, however.

 

If you want to upgrade to Windows 7, this is a trickier balance to strike. Your existing RM licences will not cover this, so getting that on SA will still not be paying for stuff you already have. The Windows licences on SA are upgrade licenses, so you have to have an existing Windows licence for the machine already anyway - so you haven't wasted your money on the Windows licences the machines shipped with. On the other hand, you might end up paying twice in this case when you buy new machines from RM in future that may ship with 7.

 

In terms of the upfront vs. annual cost issue, it might be worth having a chat with your finance team. In many schools I've dealt with, the finance team actually prefer a (near-)constant annual cost as it's easier to justify as an annual running cost on the budget than a big capital expenditure every few years. This is especially true in private schools, but many state schools I've talked to feel the same way. YMMV.

[IrritableTech]

Although we are a high school, after talking to MS reps at Bett last year (and numerous conversations on the phone afterwards) we managed to get a campus agreement rather than the schools.

 

This saves us a massive amount of money each year and made moving from select to campus a real no brainer.

 

I expect we're not unique; we have an adult ed centre on site, and some off site provision which helped us convince M$ to give us the campus agreement.

[cookie_monster]

Although we are a high school, after talking to MS reps at Bett last year (and numerous conversations on the phone afterwards) we managed to get a campus agreement rather than the schools.

 

This saves us a massive amount of money each year and made moving from select to campus a real no brainer.

 

I expect we're not unique; we have an adult ed centre on site, and some off site provision which helped us convince M$ to give us the campus agreement.

 

 

 

What exactly did you need to qualify for a campus agreement and how does this save you so much money?

 

If you don't mind me asking

[Ric_]

@cookie_monster: If you speak with a 'big' MS reseller (that's the term they use IIRC) they will be able to put you in touch directly with a MS licensing bod.

 

I spoke to Faith Warburton at Insight who put me in touch with a lovely lady called Eve at Microsoft. After discussing several options, we eventually found a nicely balanced solution.

Edited December 9, 2009 by john
fixed your spelling of the account managers name ;)

[IrritableTech]

What exactly did you need to qualify for a campus agreement and how does this save you so much money?

 

If you don't mind me asking

 

SA is based on workstations... we have about 460. CA is based on FTE staff... we have about 120. Schools agreement was quoted to me at about £27 per workstation, campus was quoted at £32 per FTE staff.

 

I'm told that the schools agreement can't be used on a split site (this would require two agreements) and the schools agreement wouldn't cover our Adult Ed site. The M$ rep eventually got fed up with me contacting him, and got his superiors to agree a campus. He let our account manager at our reseller know, and we completed the paperwork.

 

We did look into getting an agreement to cover our federation primaries too, but this was denied by M$.

[garethEds]

Better to use the Home Use Programme part as this is a direct agreement between the staff and Microsoft, requires no keys/DVDs and the staff can use it for non work use, which is a restriction of WAH rights.

 

This wasn't mentioned.

 

But I am aware staff can purchase copies for a very low price.

 

[Edit - if you are talking about the Work at Home part of our agreement, it does need the VLK. We spoke to Microsoft about this as we were not sure what serial number to give the staff.]

 

GJE

Edited December 9, 2009 by garethedmondson

[DMcCoy]

http://www.microsoft.com/education/license/manage/workathomerights.aspx

 

"For each copy of Microsoft Office you license, the primary user of the computer on or from which the product is run may also run a second copy from either a laptop or desktop computer that he or she owns or leases. The software may be used only for work-related purposes and only during the term of the agreement (including any renewals)."

 

I hate MS licensing, you have to look in so many places to get any idea of how it all works. Even then it's not usually how you think

[garethEds]

Work at Home licenses for Microsoft Academic Volume Licensing Customers

 

"For each copy of Microsoft Office you license, the primary user of the computer on or from which the product is run may also run a second copy from either a laptop or desktop computer that he or she owns or leases. The software may be used only for work-related purposes and only during the term of the agreement (including any renewals)."

 

I hate MS licensing, you have to look in so many places to get any idea of how it all works. Even then it's not usually how you think

 

This is what we have. I thought the poster was referring to something else.

 

We have 5 copies and staff all sign contracts.

 

GJE

[teejay]

Yes there are two ways you can offer staff use at home, either work at home or home access which is part of software assurance.

Work at Home is as described, they can put Office on one machine they own but can use it for work related tasks only.

Home Access is part of Software Assurance and part of the School Agreement where staff can get Office for unrestricted use at home. All you do is through the licensing portal is activate the site through the SA Benefits and point staff to it. Biggest benefit is that you just email staff the details and leave them to it, no fiddling with disks, agreements or license keys.

[cookie_monster]

Yes there are two ways you can offer staff use at home, either work at home or home access which is part of software assurance.

Work at Home is as described, they can put Office on one machine they own but can use it for work related tasks only.

Home Access is part of Software Assurance and part of the School Agreement where staff can get Office for unrestricted use at home. All you do is through the licensing portal is activate the site through the SA Benefits and point staff to it. Biggest benefit is that you just email staff the details and leave them to it, no fiddling with disks, agreements or license keys.

 

 

 

Can anyone comment on how this works with Terminal Server or Citrix sessions?

 

I've been told that you need an Office licence for each connecting device, if each member of staff was covered for home use would this cover them as Office and their PC would be effectivly licenced, if that makes sence

[DMcCoy]

Can anyone comment on how this works with Terminal Server or Citrix sessions?

 

I've been told that you need an Office licence for each connecting device, if each member of staff was covered for home use would this cover them as Office and their PC would be effectivly licenced, if that makes sence

 

Yes. As long as they only use the ONE device that has the office license assigned.

[AngryTechnician]

Home Access is part of Software Assurance and part of the School Agreement where staff can get Office for unrestricted use at home. All you do is through the licensing portal is activate the site through the SA Benefits and point staff to it. Biggest benefit is that you just email staff the details and leave them to it, no fiddling with disks, agreements or license keys.

Having used both systems now, I'm currently using Home Access at my current school. The current cost to our staff is £9.99, and they can buy the Mac version of Office instead if they want for the same price.

 

As well as the personal use and offloading of the administrative overhead, I've noticed a subtle shift in the attitude towards the scheme. With Work at Home, staff viewed it as something the school had paid for and that they were simply entitled to. With Home Access, they seem to view it as a special staff discount I somehow negotiated (no, I didn't tell them that!) and seem much more grateful for it. Perhaps a psychologist could explain that one for us?

[Griff]

You can also do a bit of a sneaky with it, if you pay your annual SA fee just before you buy your PC's you don't have to count them until the following years SA count

 

Exactly what we have just done its worked out pretty darn well

[Mr.G]

The sneakyness on Microsoft's part of requiring Software Assurance to get Windows 7 Enterprise means that you will end up with some kind of annual cost (at the very least Select+ which gives you 2 years of SA).

 

With Microsoft now sticking to a better upgrade cycle of approx. 6 years per full server OS upgrade, CAL licensing costs can be a nightmare.

 

I dont understand whats being said here.

 

Schools agreements come in different forms. As far as i'm aware there are 3. We have Schools 3 here, which covers Windows OS, Microsoft Office and the core cals.

 

We have our servers listed also and have exchange licensed under this same agreement.

 

You get a free subscription to Technet and MSDNAA if you have over 5 servers, we have 10 so this isn't a problem for us.

 

SA comes with all schools agreements, meaning latest versions of all the software licensed under that agreement for the amount specified. Additional PC's can be added at the next renewal date.

 

If you use XP then this is still a valid arguement under the T&C's of the agreement, using rollback licensing.

 

All PC's must have a valid license sticker which does not corespond with the schools agreement, in other words, the PC's must be licenced already when being purchased. In a sense doubling up on licensing but it is a requirement before any PC can be entered under any shools agreement. That is as far as i'm aware and have been told this by Microsoft.

 

I also have 2 technical support telephone calls to use per year and have access to other benefits such as online learning for students/staff, enterprise versions of software etc.

 

It's been hard getting it right and perfected but when I entered the agreement 5 years ago it helped massively with keeping track of our licenses, making sure we had the correct up to date versions of software and more importantly making sure we are LEGAL.

 

Heres a link for anyone wishing to enter an agreement.

 

Microsoft UK Education - Types of Educational Licence - Schools Agreement

 

We have a MAC suite also which uses Office for Mac 2004 or 2008. This is also licensed under our agreement and just a number of macs is required to the total count of PC's.

 

Technet & MSDNAA is a great added extra for those who don't have it. It does give you the option of self evaluating any microsoft product for extended periods of time, 12/24 months if need be and it's all legitimate & legal.

 

I've used one support call in the 5 years and it was resolved promptly and professionally.

[Arthur]

All PC's must have a valid license sticker which does not corespond with the schools agreement, in other words, the PCs must be licenced already when being purchased. In a sense doubling up on licensing but it is a requirement before any PC can be entered under any shools agreement. That is as far as i'm aware and have been told this by Microsoft.

Since the OS licenses obtained through SA are upgrades (as they are with other Microsoft VL options) it makes sense that you need a license to upgrade from. I imagine this won't be a problem for most schools since the majority would buy PCs with the OEM version of Windows pre-installed.

 

TechNet & MSDNAA is a great added extra for those who don't have it. It does give you the option of self evaluating any microsoft product for extended periods of time, 12/24 months if need be and it's all legitimate & legal.

It's worth pointing out that software obtained through the TechNet subscription cannot be used in a production environment. It's for testing and evaluation purposes only.